In one word, no. The sinking of a single cruise liner while tragic is not a crisis nor is war in distant Europe (who seem to like to beat on each other every now and then). It'll certainly be major issues during the election but a crisis I just cannot see. Had it been the sinking of a battleship perhaps, but unless France goes all unrestricted warfare on US merchant shipping it isn't going to be a crisis enough for Lincoln to seek a third term. Just my two cents though.
The Union Forever: A TL
- Thread starter Mac Gregor
- Start date
In one word, no. The sinking of a single cruise liner while tragic is not a crisis nor is war in distant Europe (who seem to like to beat on each other every now and then). It'll certainly be major issues during the election but a crisis I just cannot see. Had it been the sinking of a battleship perhaps, but unless France goes all unrestricted warfare on US merchant shipping it isn't going to be a crisis enough for Lincoln to seek a third term. Just my two cents though.
The Lusitania was enough IOTL. ITTL, America freaking HATES France, whereas IOTL Americans were getting money from selling to both sides. Hell, Japan sinking an American gunboat was a crisis during the Secondnd World War. It's not a stretch to say Americans, especially vocal ones, are crying for some blood-spillage in France.
If RTL and the Brits don't whip some francois arse in the next few chapters, the Alliance is in trouble.
If RTL and the Brits don't whip some francois arse in the next few chapters, the Alliance is in trouble.
Sorry it's been awhile since I commented.
That being said, everything seems to be progressing nicely.
In this case, there shouldn't be a need for that to happen (yet). If (when?) Britain joins, then...well.
That being said, everything seems to be progressing nicely.
Ah, but the Lusitania wasn't enough. It was the declaration of unrestricted submarine warfare that broke the camel's back, so to speak.
In this case, there shouldn't be a need for that to happen (yet). If (when?) Britain joins, then...well.
I always thought it was the Zimmerman Telegram that did it, but that's just me
Hey everyone, if you haven't already please remember to vote in the Turtledove awards. https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=179247
An American update is coming next. So if you have any input as to the 1908 U.S. Presidential election now is the time. Cheers!
An American update is coming next. So if you have any input as to the 1908 U.S. Presidential election now is the time. Cheers!
The 1908 Presidential Elections
Four more Years for RTL
The 1908 Presidential Elections
As the 1908 elections approached, the question on the American public’s mind was whether President Robert T. Lincoln would, or should, run for a third term. Over the years much has been written about the unprecedented reelection of RTL for a third term but it is first important to understand the setting and Lincoln’s motivation for seeking reelection yet again.
In 1908, Lincoln, at the age of 65, could look back after two terms in office on a long list of accomplishments. Having taken officer during the height of the Depression, Lincoln and his Republican controlled government had steadily brought the country out of financial destitution through a series of wise measures including reducing tariffs, public work projects, and naval and munitions production. With the passing of the 14th Amendment civil rights were being extended to an ever greater number of Americans, and Cuba, Arizona, and New Mexico had all been successfully brought into the Union. Furthermore, the U.S. Military both on land and on sea were at their greatest strength since the Civil War.
In the end it was probably a combination of factors which led RTL to run for a third term. The most important of which was undoubtedly the war in Europe. Lincoln is said to have remarked to his youngest son William that “What I am suppose to do if America joins the war? Merely watch from the front porch? No son, if war is inevitable I will see my country safely through.” Secondly, Lincoln was a career politician and had been an elected official nearly his entire adult life, and many historians and political scientist have speculated that RTL dreaded being out of the public limelight. Furthermore, some modern day political scientists, such as Conner N. Baymont, have suggested that Lincoln’s desire for a third term was an attempt to outshine the accomplishments of his illustrious father.
The Republican National Convention
Lincoln’s re-nomination as the Republican candidate was far from certain. At the 1908 Republican Convention, held in Nashville, Tennessee, many felt that, while Lincoln had done a remarkable job as president, Washington’s two term precedent should be respected and that it was time for other politicians to get their chance at the White House. Many of the more domestically progressive and isolationist Republicans favored Robert M. La Follette of Wisconsin. Other more business focused Republicans favored Leslie M. Shaw of Iowa. Furthermore, Lincoln’s own Secretary of War Theodore (Teddy) Roosevelt of New York was being promoted by hawkish elements in the Republican Party as a possible candidate as well. Lincoln however, wasn’t without friends. On the second day of the convention Secretary of State, and former vice presidential candidate, William McKinley gave a rousing speech where he extolled the “enumerable virtues of our most honorable President.” When interrupted by a shout declaring “no president has ever had three terms!” McKinley retorted “indeed, and we have never had a President like Robert Todd Lincoln!” to the delight of the crowd. On the third day Lincoln, secured the nomination by a safe but not extravagant margin. Vice President Nathan Goff was dropped from the ticket however, and replaced with Gov. Andrew Johnson Jr., a 56 year old Democrat turned Republican and the fifth child of a former governor of Tennessee.
The Democratic National Convention
Having been out of power in both the executive and legislative branches since 1900, many Democrats saw Lincoln’s unorthodox bid for a third term as a catalyst to try and regain control of the government. The Democrats selected Indianapolis, Indiana for their 1908 National Convention. At the convention, the delegates selected progressive Democrat John W. Kern of Indiana to head the ticket. For Kern’s running mate they selected the more conservative Alton B. Parker of New York.
John W. Kern
Democrat from Indiana
1908 Canidate for President
The Campaign
The campaign for the general election was marked by fiery rhetoric on both sides. The Democrats derided Lincolns candidacy claiming that he was a despotic megalomaniac determined to stay in power “until his death or the completion of the ruin of this country.” Lincoln countered with a pledge saying that if reelected this would be his last term as president. The Democrats also argued that Lincoln was determined to have the United States enter the Great War as shown by the massive U.S. military buildup of the last few years. The Republicans responded by stating that if President Lincoln was a warmonger, as the Democrats said, America would surely already be in the war. Instead the Republicans clamed RTL was “the man who kept us out of war.” The largest Republican selling point however was the booming economy a far cry from the Depression of 1897 under Lincoln’s predecessor Democratic President George A. Custer.
Results
On election day, the American people kept their trust in Lincoln and returned him to the White House, making him the only U.S. President to date to have been elected to more than two terms. Lincoln’s victory however, was by a significantly smaller margin than his previous two elections with the Lincoln-Johnson ticket carrying none of the southern states except Cuba. The Republicans also managed to hold onto their control of Congress but with a substantially increased Democratic minority.
Lincoln’s 1908 Cabinet
Following his electoral victory, President Lincoln began reshuffling his cabinet secretaries. Following the example of his father, RTL sought to incorporate his former Republican rivals into the government. Leslie M. Shaw replaced Jonathan Fisher as Secretary of the Treasury, and Robert M. LaFollet became the Attorney General. The nomination of La Follette’s, a known progressive, sent a message that RTL was serious about continuing to promote women’s and minorities’ civil rights. Victor Metcalf, a close associate of Secretary of War Roosevelt, became the secretary for the newly created Department of Labor and Commerce.
Vice President- Andrew Johnson Jr.
Attorney General- Robert M. La Follette
Secretary of Agriculture- Brandon R. Roland
Secretary of State- William McKinley
Secretary of the Navy- Alfred T. Mahan
Secretary of the Treasury- Leslie M. Shaw
Secretary of the Interior- James W. Fulton
Postmaster General- Kenneth R. Strickland
Secretary of War – Theodore Roosevelt
Secretary of Labor and Commerce- Victor H. Metcalf
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A third term for RTL, eh? This should prove intresting, to say the least. I'm curious as to the public's opinion of the Republicans in the immediate years after RTL leaves office. Will the Democrats take power once more? Will the public look upon the Republicans as power hungry lunatics? To me, it all depends on if, when, and how the U.S. enters the War. I also think that there will be a minor rift in the Republican Party come the next Presidential Election, because if the U.S. enters the war and preforms well, TR will gain some amount of popularity, and could very well challenge any prominant Republican for the Republican Nomination. Good upate, as per usual. Can't wait to see more!
Hey, does anyone have a map of the United States at this present juncture in the TL{1908, I think?}?
Interesting. The Lincolns will go down in history as two of the most successful presidents TTL.
So Lincoln will lead America in the fight in the great war huh?
He'll be a wartime president just like his dad.
Unless circumstances cause a president Johnson succeeding a president Lincoln... just like his dad in OTL...
He'll be a wartime president just like his dad.
Unless circumstances cause a president Johnson succeeding a president Lincoln... just like his dad in OTL...
"Another four years thinkin' for Robert T. Lincoln"
Yes. The Lincoln's will certainly go down as the best Presidents of the United states. Glad you put him here on '08 actually, didn't really think that you could replace him yet with another Republican.
Reckon it was too early to have him in yet, He should be in the 1912 election. IF, and i do mean IF the Americans enter the war, depending on whose side it is, and if Roosevelt performs an admirable job, then he will, realistically be voted in as the next President.
Oh, yeah, and also... (on a totally unrelated subject)
Thought this guy was John Bell Hood from the Gettysburg movie, for a second.
Silly me!!!
Yes. The Lincoln's will certainly go down as the best Presidents of the United states. Glad you put him here on '08 actually, didn't really think that you could replace him yet with another Republican.
Reckon it was too early to have him in yet, He should be in the 1912 election. IF, and i do mean IF the Americans enter the war, depending on whose side it is, and if Roosevelt performs an admirable job, then he will, realistically be voted in as the next President.
Oh, yeah, and also... (on a totally unrelated subject)
Thought this guy was John Bell Hood from the Gettysburg movie, for a second.
Silly me!!!
The Bonaparte-Hanotaux Letters
La Vision de Napoleon
The Bonaparte-Hanotaux letters
Napoleon IV
Emperor of the French
February, 1909
Few single events have had such an enormous impact of world history as the discovery of the Bonaparte-Hanotaux letters. Handwritten by Emperor Napoleon IV in 1891, to his then foreign minister Albert Auguste Gabriel Hanotaux, the classified letters outlined in detail Napoleon IV’s vision for the French Empire in the 20th Century. Revealed to the world on February 15, 1909 by the London based newspaper The Times, these documents had been smuggled into the United Kingdom by Arnaud Delancy, a French civil servant in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Delancy had long been a closet Republican and was deeply distressed over the death of his brother on the Prussian front in what he viewed to be “an unjust war of monarchial expansion.” In early February, Delcancy stole the Bonaparte-Hanotaux letters from the vault in the ministry’s archives, made his way to London, and defected. It was Delcancy’s hope that by revealing Napoleon IV’s plans neutral nations such as the United Kingdom and the United States would help end the war and topple the French monarchy.
Contents
In the first of the four Bonaparte-Hanotaux letters, Napoleon IV outlines what he believes to be France’s currently precarious geo-strategic position. He claims that in order for the French Empire to survive it most expand within the next few decades before it is overtaken by industrializing larger nations such as Russia. Napoleon also warns that France must prevent at all costs a unified German state from emerging which would naturally become the dominate force on the continent.
The second letter titled “Première Guerre mondiale”, or World War I in English, described how France should use some minor incident to initiate a general European war. In this “first world war”, Napoleon IV foresaw the French Empire, accompanied by her allies Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, and the south German states, at war against an Alliance of Russia, Prussia, Italy, and most likely the Balkan nations. Napoleon IV stressed in the letter that everything possible should be done to prevent the United Kingdom from entering the war on side of the enemy. The Emperor also mentions that it would be best if the war could coincide with a conflict between Japan and Russia. The letter continues by then outlining France’s strategy in the war, stating that Italy should fall in 6 months, Prussia in 2 years, and Russia in 3 to 4 years. As detailed in the accompanying map, post war Europe would see French vassal states carved out of defeated Prussia, Russia, and Italy. These vassal states, all of which would have a pro French ally on the thrown, would include the new kingdoms and duchies of Poland, the Ukraine, Westphalia, Belarussia, the Baltic, and Finland. Italy was to be divided into a Duchy of Tuscany in the north, a rump Kingdom of Italy in the south, and a revived Papal States in the middle. France itself would annex northwestern Italy, Luxembourg, and the west bank of the Rhine. The Balkans and Greece would be divided between the Ottomans and the Austro-Hungarians.
The third letter stated that even after France emerged victorious in the world war, it would still not be in a position to ensure global dominance and that another and even larger war of expansion would be needed. Napoleon IV stated that within 18 to 25 years of the first global conflict, a second world war, Seconde Guerre mondiale, would erupt as the defeated powers sought revenge. In this second world war, Great Britain was likely to become a major belligerent. Napoleon predicted that in the inter-war years France will be able to overtake the Royal Navy and when hostilities commenced blockade Britain into submission. When the war ended with France victorious, the British Empire would be dissolved with her African colonies being annexed, Ireland and India made into a French puppet states, and the white British dominions gaining independence. Interestingly, Napoleon wished to annex certain New World possessions such as Quebec, Haiti, British Honduras, the Falkland Islands, and British Guyana directly into the French Empire. Prussia would be reduced to a French vassal, and Russia would be further divided losing virtually all access to the sea. China would be divided between the French and Japanese The third letter also mentions bringing the nations of Colombia, Venezuela, and Brazil into a tighter French orbit. Written in the 1890’s when the isolationist Democratic Party was in power, Napoleon maintained that the United States would most likely not become involved in the world wars “until it was to late.”
The fourth and final letter discussed France’s position at the end the second world war. France would be the dominate power on the planet, controlling the majority of the world’s population and resources. Napoleon IV continues by discussing a variety of matters such as how the French language and Roman Catholicism would be promoted in the conquered territories as a way to bind the Empire together. The Emperor also states that there might be a third world war in the latter half of the 20th Century between France and her allies and the remaining powers of Britain, Scandinavia, the United States, and possibly Japan. However, at this point the French Empire will have grown so strong that no combination of opponents could hope to defeat her. Napoleon closed his the letter by stating that, “God willing, the French Empire will rule the world for the next 5,000 years.”
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A map based off of Napleon IV's description of the world following “Première Guerre mondiale”. French vassal/satellite states are in light blue.
A map based off of Napoleon IV's description of the world after Seconde Guerre mondiale. French vassal/satellite states are in light blue.
OMG Napoleon cannot be serious in thinking that this is actually possible to take on nearly everybody and defeat them and annex so much of the world I mean it is just pure madness really and actually putting these disillusions on paper will be his downfall. I can imagine that seeing this will give a Britain a perfect excuse to declare war on the French and it might not be enough for the United States to go the full distance and declare war but it is going to allow Lincoln to give a hell a lot of more aid to Prussia, Russia and Britain maybe a lot like OTL WW2 land lease
oh my gosh... the great war in this TL is essentailly ww1 and ww2 bundled together in one great big value pack
i think you were right when you questioned whether or not every world war 1 always entitles a sequel, because this one might really be the "war to end all wars"
can't wait to see the french empire topple. the letters are basically telling Great Britain that its future is a horror story written by Napoleon IV's lust for power
this is just like the Zimmerman Telegram! Great Brittain can't possibly not join the war now...
right? ...
i think you were right when you questioned whether or not every world war 1 always entitles a sequel, because this one might really be the "war to end all wars"
can't wait to see the french empire topple. the letters are basically telling Great Britain that its future is a horror story written by Napoleon IV's lust for power
this is just like the Zimmerman Telegram! Great Brittain can't possibly not join the war now...
right? ...