The Union Forever: A TL

[Mac Gregor]

Hi Mac, long time follower of this thread, and I just registered to tell you that I've been enjoying it so far but I've got a few questions.

1. What are your thoughts on "Jefferson" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)

2. Wouldn't the Karelian parts of Russia either be a separate "republic" or joined together with Finland?

3. Would the Aral Sea still exist ITTL? OTL Aral Sea has shrunken to epic small proportions.

4. Is Washington DC a state?

5. Could you explain a bit more about Britain and the Commonwealth ITTL?

6. To whom do OTL French Guiana belong to ITTL?

7. The Canadian arctic doesn't belong to Canada?

8. What's the situation in Antartica?

9. Does Argentina still claims the Falklands? Will there be a war between the Argentines and the Commonwealth at some point in the future?

10. Since there's no MLK, is there still a social rights movement in the US?

I think I've got more questions, but let's start with these 10.

Novelty,

Glad to here you have been enjoying the TL and congrats on registering (I was a long time lurker myself). Metastasis_d answered most of your questions. Here are my answers to a few others.

5. On the UK and the British Commonwealth. Since the adoption of the Comprehensive Charter of the Commonwealth (CCC) in 1961 the British Empire has been divided into a three tier system. At the top are fully independent states that still share the monarch as head of state. As of 1975 these include the UK, Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zeeland, and South Africa. Second come the dominions who control their domestic affairs but have their foreign relations mostly managed by the UK, these include Madras, Ceylon, Burma, Malaysia, Jamaica, the Bahamas, Guyana, Cyprus, Malta, Nigeria, East Africa and the Union of Gulf Emirates. All other territories are either crown colonies or protectorates. Within the British Commonwealth the member states share military ties and free trade agreements.

8. Antarctica is explained in the 1973 update. Long story sort it is divided between 12 countries and is not demilitarized.

9. Yes Argentina still claims the Falkland islands, however a war is unlikely as the UK ITTL is far more powerful in 1975 than OTL. Plus, Argentina ITTL is a stable democracy and probably wouldn't try anything so rash. It does remain a small point of contention however between the LAR and British Commonwealth.


Let me know if you have anymore questions. Cheers!

 

[Mac Gregor]

Cool country update, Mac! That last little bit in the description makes me wonder if the US and Japan may be heading towards a conflict down the road, if the latter's actions of late are any indication. It certainly wouldn't do for the US to abandon their ally to nearby expansionists after all...

Japanese are probably too reasonable to attack to USA. United States has probably much stronger army and them has nuclear weapon. Anyway has Japan its own nuclear program?

Perhaps a Cuban Missile Crisis-esque situation, with lots of posturing and readying of arms, with one side backing down before the other (*COUGH*Japan*COUGH*). As far as the nuke thing, that assumes the Japanese believe the US could and would actually use them. It's not like they've shown themselves as being particularly restrained or reasonable so far, their dealings with India notwithstanding.

Well nukes don't have quite the context in TTL.

This is true. Even leaving nukes off the table, it's a situation that could easily spin out of control if proper restraint isn't shown by relevant parties. And of course, who knows whether allies would get involved or not (in terms of diplomacy, not necessarily mobilizing or anything like that). Bottom line, we'll have to see how it plays out in coming updates.

Well the conflict has been simmering all this time with no real flashpoint (despite a few coming and going) so I only think it could be through something like a convoluted series of alliances which would trigger all the powers in the region going to war.

On Japan and nukes, I wouldn't put it past them to be trying to obtain one, but its something probably outside the range of their technical abilities without foreign help.

Good discussion y'all on the situation in Asia. I'm sure policymakers ITTL are making similar arguments.

As for the status of the Japanese nuclear weapons program that is a much debated point but they are commonly believed to be a few years away. They do have known stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons.

 

[Mac Gregor]

I'm surprised India hasn't captured Portuguese India by now. There really is not much stopping them.

Indeed, the only thing probably stopping Nanda from waltzing into Goa besides the small Portuguese garrison is the Anglo-Portuguese alliance which among other things guarantees Portuguese India.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Here is another country update.

Name: Persian Empire
Capital: Tehran
Official Languages: Persian
Demonym: Persian
Government: Constitutional Monarchy
Head of State: Shah Hamid Hassan Qajar
Head of Government:Prime Minister Shahin Attar
Establishment: 1785 (Qajar dynasty founded)
Currency: Toman

History of Persia 1860 - 1975: The Shahs of the Qajar Dynasty ruled Persia with absolute power until a popular revolt led to the creation of a parliament in 1917. For much of the 20th Century the Persian Empire has been an important Russian ally as illustrated by the Russo-Persian Treaty of 1924 in which the Russians gave monetary and military assistance in return for naval basing rights. During the Indian War of Independence, Persia backed Baloch separatists in order to create a buffer state between themselves and an independent India. However, since the rise of the REP, India has been meddling in the internal politics of Baluchistan a move deeply resented by the Persian government. As such Persia recently made an important rapprochement with Britain by signing the Anglo-Persian Defense Treaty in 1974. In recent years, oil revenue has done much to boost the economy and a Persian middleclass is growing. Politically Persia remains deeply divided as the monarchy retains considerable power and parliament often finds itself at odds with the influential Persian military.

 

[Mac Gregor]

1975

Domestic Developments

George W. Lopez on the Lunar Surface
March 28, 1975​

On March 28, Artemis X astronauts George W. Lopez of Cuba and Charlie Rosenthal of Pasapa became the first men to walk on the surface of the moon when their lunar lander Discovery successfully touched down near the Mare Serenitatis. After planting the flag, collecting rock samples, and taking a call from President Gavin the crew of Artemis X returned safely to Earth where they were hailed as national heroes.

Starting in the spring, Philadelphia played host to the 1975 World’s Fair drawing massive crowds to the city. With the slogan “Celebrating 200 years of Liberty and Progress” the exhibition not only commemorated the nation’s upcoming bicentennial but also displayed the latest technological developments including an automatonic statue of Ben Franklin that welcomed visitors.[1]

In November, the Supreme Court in Dominguez v. Puerto Rico ruled six to five upholding the state’s right to ban abortions. As of 1975, only 22 states allowed abortion under certain circumstances.

[1] Autonomatonic is the TL’s term for Robotic.

 

[Utgard96]

Why wouldn't they wait until '76 to hold the exhibition? That's when the proper bicentennial is, after all.

 

[Lalli]

Americans have won moon race. Germans are surely very annoyed.

 

[metastasis_d]

No love for TTL's Michael Collins?

 

[Utgard96]

No love for TTL's Michael Collins?

Maybe they weren't using lunar orbit rendezvous? That would eliminate the need for a crew member staying in orbit.

 

[FleetMac]

Epic update, Mac! I was humming the "From the Earth to the Moon" theme while reading the moon landing portion, to be honest. I do find it odd that they decided to forego the lunar orbit plan and just plop the astronauts on the lunar surface, but I suppose it's technologically feasible to do so. It's also too bad that the abortion issue isn't going well, but then again it IS 1975 so I guess it's not unrealistic or unimaginable. Sweet update!

 

[Mac Gregor]

Why wouldn't they wait until '76 to hold the exhibition? That's when the proper bicentennial is, after all.

They would have but ITTL World's Fairs are held every four years. So its either 1975 or 1979.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Americans have won moon race. Germans are surely very annoyed.

Yep, they are pretty peeved.

 

[Mac Gregor]

No love for TTL's Michael Collins?

Maybe they weren't using lunar orbit rendezvous? That would eliminate the need for a crew member staying in orbit.

No, the Artemis Program uses the lunar orbit rendezvous as well. The third astronaut for the Artemis X mission is Cole Cambell of Ohio.

 

[Novelty]

Lol, dubya was the first man on the moon?

 

[MasterSanders]

I think the turn taken by the Supreme Court ITTL is interesting, seeming to take a bit more of an OTL conservative approach, at least to school prayer and abortion.

Man on the moon, very good.

 

[ZincOxide]

Yay! Moon race! And yeah, I was kind of like re the SupCt's more conservative stance ITTL, though.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Hey Everyone, here are a couple of maps and some statistics as we are three-fourths done with the 20th Century. Enjoy.


The world by government type. Please note that the term "limited monarchy" is used for countries where the monarch still wields some power as compared to a "constitutional monarchy" where the monarch is merely a figure head.

Here is a map that shows the level of political and social rights by country.

Below are some statistics compiled by Harper's Weekly for 1975.

Top 10 Nations by Area[1]
1. Imperial Eurasian Federation
2. Dominion of Canada
3. United States of America
4. Federal Republic of Brazil
5. Technate of China
6. Federation of Australia
7. Dominion of South Africa
8. United Republic of India
9. French Republic
10. Argentine Republic

Top 10 Nations by GDP
1. United States of America
2. German Empire
3. Imperial Eurasian Federation
4. United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
5. Empire of Japan
6. French Republic
7. Republic of Italy
8. Technate of China
9. United Republic of India
10. Dominion of Canada

Top 10 Nations by Population

1. United Republic of India
2. Technate of China
3. Imperial Eurasian Federation
4. United States of America
5. Empire of Japan
6. German Empire
7. Republic of Indonesia
8. Commonwealth of Madras
9. French Republic
10. United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

[1] Statistics do not include oversea colonies.

 

[Beedok]

Canada is still bigger than the US?

 

[metastasis_d]

Canada is still bigger than the US?

Definitely not. Canada is about 157k km^2 larger than the USA OTL, and Cuba plus the Dominican Republic alone cover more land area than that. The extra Pacific islands, half of Panama, French Guiana, and the Nicaragua Canal Zone only add icing to the cake.

 

[Beedok]

Definitely not. Canada is about 157k km^2 larger than the USA OTL, and Cuba plus the Dominican Republic alone cover more land area than that. The extra Pacific islands, half of Panama, French Guiana, and the Nicaragua Canal Zone only add icing to the cake.

Well that needs to be fixed. How much does Greenland cost?