The Union Forever: A TL

Well that needs to be fixed. How much does Greenland cost?

1 Quebec Sterling?

I was calculating to find out if *Russia had a higher population than the US (assuming approximately similar levels of population to OTL) but then I remembered they have Manchuria.
 
Canada is still bigger than the US?

Definitely not. Canada is about 157k km^2 larger than the USA OTL, and Cuba plus the Dominican Republic alone cover more land area than that. The extra Pacific islands, half of Panama, French Guiana, and the Nicaragua Canal Zone only add icing to the cake.

Well that needs to be fixed. How much does Greenland cost?

Gentlemen,

According to this wiki page Canada is 355,579 km squared larger than OTL USA. By my calculation adding the TL's Caribbean states do not make up the difference. Remember that oversea territories like American Guiana, Pacifica, and Micronesia don't count towards the total. Let me know if I am forgetting something.
 
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Gentlemen,

According to this wiki page Canada is 355,579 km squared larger than OTL USA. By my calculation adding the TL's Caribbean states do not make up the difference. Remember that oversea territories like American Guiana, Pacifica, and Micronesia don't count towards the total. Let me know if I am forgetting something.

I was looking on the US/Canada pages, not that one. Not sure where the huge difference in areas listed for the US area come from, but I guess it's water area or something.
 
I was looking on the US/Canada pages, not that one. Not sure where the huge difference in areas listed for the US area come from, but I guess it's water area or something.

Turns out their is a dispute about this. Her are some notes from Wikipedia.

"The ranking for world's third largest country is disputed due to (1) conflicting information from different sources; and (2) differing methods on how land and water areas are calculated.
The Encyclopædia Britannica lists U.S. as the world's fourth largest country (after Russia, Canada, and China) with a total area of 9,526,468 km2 (3,678,190 sq mi).[7]
Other figures: The UN figure of (9,629,091 km2 or 3,717,813 sq mi) includes coastal waters, but not territorial waters.[8] The CIA World Factbook fiqure of (9,826,675 km2 or 3,794,100 sq mi) additionally includes territorial waters.[9]
The water area of United States includes all water categories: inland waters, coastal waters, and territorial waters."

I think the real question is whether the Canadian figure includes territorial waters. Does anybody know?
 
Turns out their is a dispute about this. Her are some notes from Wikipedia.

"The ranking for world's third largest country is disputed due to (1) conflicting information from different sources; and (2) differing methods on how land and water areas are calculated.
The Encyclopædia Britannica lists U.S. as the world's fourth largest country (after Russia, Canada, and China) with a total area of 9,526,468 km2 (3,678,190 sq mi).[7]
Other figures: The UN figure of (9,629,091 km2 or 3,717,813 sq mi) includes coastal waters, but not territorial waters.[8] The CIA World Factbook fiqure of (9,826,675 km2 or 3,794,100 sq mi) additionally includes territorial waters.[9]
The water area of United States includes all water categories: inland waters, coastal waters, and territorial waters."

I think the real question is whether the Canadian figure includes territorial waters. Does anybody know?

Probably not; something something something politeness.
 
1976: Foreign Developmetns Part 1
1976

Foreign Developments
Part I


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Helmfried Lafrentz plants the Imperial German Flag
January 26, 1976

On January 26, the German Empire became the second nation to send a man to the moon when Helmfried Lafrentz and Dierk Wechsler landed on the Sea of Tranquility. Germany may well have reached the moon months earlier had they not suffered a fatal accident the previous February killing three astronauts and delaying their lunar program.

In May, the French Government of President Jourdain Gaëtan made a decision hoping to resolve the “African Question”. Starting in 1978, France’s two remaining colonies of Western and Eastern Sahara would be given de jure independence and control over their own domestic affairs but like the British dominions have their foreign policy directed by the mother country. The announcement was received with mixed feelings both in France and the Saharas, but by and large was treated as an acceptable compromise by most.

During the 1976 Italian elections the new center left Christian Labor Party (PLC) captured the presidency and lower house while the Democratic Republicans kept control of the Senate. Formed largely from the remnants of the now defunct People’s Party, the PLC and the new President Furruccio Gagliardi promised the country improved working conditions, a massive infrastructure improvement plan, and announced the start of a joint Franco-Italian space program.

In July, open rebellion finally broke out in the Belgian Congo. Prime Minister Wathelet’s government reluctantly began deploying troops, mostly in the western part of the colony to protect key facilities and infrastructure. German forces from neighboring Cameroon also began providing limited assistance to shore up the Belgians against the myriad of armed groups opposing them.
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Flag used by most Congolese freedom fighter groups​
 
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Man, the Congo just can't ever catch a break it seems :eek::(. I do think it's cool how Germany has gotten to the Moon as well, not to be long outdone by the Americans. And getting back to Africa for a second, at least some progress is being made to decolonize the place here and there!
 
I have feelings that Congolese Independence War will be long and bloody. And it is possible that German Cameroon and Portuguese colonies get same idea and want independence. Anyway, what is situation of Libya?
 
Since Belgium is in Germany's orbit, what are the chances of Germany deploying a nuclear weapon on rebel positions on request of Belgium? The Nuclear Taboo hasn't developed at all ITTL, so I don't think it would be too unlikely :eek:

But use a nuke on what exactly?

The idea of a nuke as just a really big bomb is probably there for sure, but against rebels where are you going to deploy it? Nuke a city they capture? That's just wasteful.

No I doubt a nuke would be used there merely because there is nowhere to use one. Its not like the rebels will obligingly form up in big conventional columns which could be easily bombed.
 
Since Belgium is in Germany's orbit, what are the chances of Germany deploying a nuclear weapon on rebel positions on request of Belgium? The Nuclear Taboo hasn't developed at all ITTL, so I don't think it would be too unlikely :eek:

If Belgium plays this smart, they should try to break off some regions of the Congo as associated states such as South Kasai. The only piece of territory Belgium could probably retain de jure ownership of are the Ports of Boma and Muanda near and on the Atlantic Ocean. (Perhaps with the Congo River being a border, with the Belgians keeping everything north of it until you hit the German Congo?)

I suspect that Portugal and Germany would fight (and likely win) to keep control of Cameroon and Angola should violence spread there. Germany could also probably break off some of the more densely populated areas (a rump Congo based state consisting of Brazzaville, and roughly OTL Pool and Plateaux and part of Bouenze departments; along with a *Southern Cameroons* with roughly OTL Littoral and West departments thrown in)

Adding to what EnglishCanuck said: tactical nukes won't be around for a while.
 
I was thinking that Nuclear weapons could be used against Rebel formations in some sort of Dien Bien Phu analog to relieve Belgian defenders.

Nuclear weapons probably would be quiet useless against rebels. This is plausible like Vietnam or Soviet-Afghan War where is much guerilla warfare not like frontier war between two well-organised army and countries. And what exactly Germans and Belgians nuke? There not be any idea nuke small military units and bombing of cities not be very reasonable. Them has then buld that again and they probably know about radioactive.
 
Nuclear weapons probably would be quiet useless against rebels. This is plausible like Vietnam or Soviet-Afghan War where is much guerilla warfare not like frontier war between two well-organised army and countries. And what exactly Germans and Belgians nuke? There not be any idea nuke small military units and bombing of cities not be very reasonable. Them has then buld that again and they probably know about radioactive.

I believe they already know about radioactive fallout to some extent, and I sincerely doubt the Belgians would be very enthused by the idea even if they don't quite understand the implications of fallout fully.

To be honest I don't think the Germans would even see the reason to use a nuke. The tactical doctrine for nukes is only theoretical at this point and as stated previously all they are is a really big bomb so you'd need a really big target to use it against. Which as Lalli has pointed out here, in this kind of conflict you're not really going to get that chance.
 
I have feelings that Congolese Independence War will be long and bloody. And it is possible that German Cameroon and Portuguese colonies get same idea and want independence. Anyway, what is situation of Libya?

Libya (Italian North Africa) is doing pretty well. It is divided into provinces and has been fully integrated into the Republic of Italy. The Economy is centered mostly on oil, but Tunis, Benghazi, and Tripoli are manufacturing centers. Politically speaking the area is dominated by the Maghreb League, a collection of Muslim centric parties, which used to caucus with the People's Party. It failed to join in a government with Christian Labor, and is contemplating allying itself with the Democratic Republicans. While their are several groups who want the region gain independence from Italy they are divided and do not enjoy widespread support.
 
On Nukes

Since Belgium is in Germany's orbit, what are the chances of Germany deploying a nuclear weapon on rebel positions on request of Belgium? The Nuclear Taboo hasn't developed at all ITTL, so I don't think it would be too unlikely :eek:

If Belgium plays this smart, they should try to break off some regions of the Congo as associated states such as South Kasai. The only piece of territory Belgium could probably retain de jure ownership of are the Ports of Boma and Muanda near and on the Atlantic Ocean. (Perhaps with the Congo River being a border, with the Belgians keeping everything north of it until you hit the German Congo?)

I suspect that Portugal and Germany would fight (and likely win) to keep control of Cameroon and Angola should violence spread there. Germany could also probably break off some of the more densely populated area's (a rump Congo based state consisting of Brazzaville, and roughly OTL Pool and Plateaux and part of Bouenze departments; along with a *Southern Cameroons* with roughly OTL Littoral and West departments thrown in)

But use a nuke on what exactly?

The idea of a nuke as just a really big bomb is probably there for sure, but against rebels where are you going to deploy it? Nuke a city they capture? That's just wasteful.

No I doubt a nuke would be used there merely because there is nowhere to use one. Its not like the rebels will obligingly form up in big conventional columns which could be easily bombed.

Adding to what EnglishCanuck said: tactical nukes won't be around for a while.

I was thinking that Nuclear weapons could be used against Rebel formations in some sort of Dien Bien Phu analog to relieve Belgian defenders.

Nuclear weapons probably would be quiet useless against rebels. This is plausible like Vietnam or Soviet-Afghan War where is much guerilla warfare not like frontier war between two well-organised army and countries. And what exactly Germans and Belgians nuke? There not be any idea nuke small military units and bombing of cities not be very reasonable. Them has then buld that again and they probably know about radioactive.

I believe they already know about radioactive fallout to some extent, and I sincerely doubt the Belgians would be very enthused by the idea even if they don't quite understand the implications of fallout fully.

To be honest I don't think the Germans would even see the reason to use a nuke. The tactical doctrine for nukes is only theoretical at this point and as stated previously all they are is a really big bomb so you'd need a really big target to use it against. Which as Lalli has pointed out here, in this kind of conflict you're not really going to get that chance.
.

Good discussion on nuclear weapons. As nuclear weapons haven't been used in combat yet there are several schools of thought surrounding them. Originally the view that nukes are merely big bombs was popular but since 1972 when the German newspaper Tagesanbruch released classified information revealing the devastation wrought on the Cameroon jungle by nuclear tests the public has become increasingly wary of their use. In short, while the reluctance to use nuclear weapons is slightly less than OTL it is still considerable. Would the Belgians ask for German nuclear support against Congolese rebels? Possibly, but it is unlikely that an worthwhile opportunity would present itself.
 
Libya (Italian North Africa) is doing pretty well. It is divided into provinces and has been fully integrated into the Republic of Italy. The Economy is centered mostly on oil, but Tunis, Benghazi, and Tripoli are manufacturing centers. Politically speaking the area is dominated by the Maghreb League, a collection of Muslim centric parties, which used to caucus with the People's Party. It failed to join in a government with Christian Labor, and is contemplating allying itself with the Democratic Republicans. While their are several groups who want the region gain independence from Italy they are divided and do not enjoy widespread support.

How many Italian speakers live in Libya?
 
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