It is really hard get Russia/Soviets and Japanese to same alliance. Speciality overlordship over Manchuria would bring much of difficulties. It might be possible get them non-aggression pact but you would need some really good reason for that.
The Twin Vipers: A TL of the Berlin-Moscow Axis
- Thread starter BiteNibbleChomp
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It is really hard get Russia/Soviets and Japanese to same alliance. Speciality overlordship over Manchuria would bring much of difficulties. It might be possible get them non-aggression pact but you would need some really good reason for that.
They had a non-aggression pact OTL, so not really difficult at all, at least until they get done beating up all the other neighbor kids. Then they'll probably turn on each other.
Some more questions for this TL, @BiteNibbleChomp.
1. What happened to Mel Brooks, Jack Kirby, Joe Simon, and Charlie Chaplin? Well known for their famous anti-Nazi works?
2. What happened to black/other non-white, Jewish, female, and queer communists? Did they change their political ideologies once they realised that Moscow was allying with a nation that pretty much wanted to murder all of them? Along with the Nazis/Pro-Nazi groups outside of Germany?
3. Speaking of Queers, how are LGBT Rights like ITTL?
1. What happened to Mel Brooks, Jack Kirby, Joe Simon, and Charlie Chaplin? Well known for their famous anti-Nazi works?
2. What happened to black/other non-white, Jewish, female, and queer communists? Did they change their political ideologies once they realised that Moscow was allying with a nation that pretty much wanted to murder all of them? Along with the Nazis/Pro-Nazi groups outside of Germany?
3. Speaking of Queers, how are LGBT Rights like ITTL?
Still successful, although with slightly different works than OTL. Expect more villains in comic books to be depicted with really silly mustaches and/or communist stars.
There's as many answers to this as there are minority communists. Some would have denounced the Moscow line. Some would have said "that's not real communism/socialism". Some just wouldn't have given a damn (if Russian neo-Nazis can exist today, other strange combinations of ideology are more than possible!).
Especially later in the war, most communists of all sorts became less inclined to advertise their communist beliefs so they wouldn't be outcast by society. Some would have dropped those beliefs entirely, others would have just found another left-wing group that suited them and carried on mostly as before.
Depends a lot on where you are. In the West, full acceptance has either been achieved or is on the way to being so by 2020, although gay marriage wouldn't be supported nearly so much as OTL and would still be quite rare (unity and friendship with your fellow countryman, rather than political partisanship, is a defining characteristic of a lot of these societies, but radical social changes that might disrupt that are less likely to gain support due to the fear of rocking the boat).
Russia's theologians would still be fiercely debating the issue - no consensus has been reached among the church elders and without instruction from them, most common people haven't yet come to a decision either.
Japan's society basically denies any form identity other than nationality - a gay person from Korea would be much more likely to tell people that they were "from Korea" than that they were gay. Due to the need to get at least 2 of the 3 major nationalities (Japanese, Korean, Manchurian) on board with a majority in the government to get enough votes, passing any sort of social reform focused on anything but nationality tends to be a very slow process.
Fascist Italy, Ukraine or Austria... there's no death camps, but let's just say you would probably want to either emigrate or stay "in the closet" if you identified in that direction.
- BNC
Yo so I'm new here but I applaud you for your timeline; lots of plot twists right there and overall it was a masterpiece. Three things that I liked was Italy's declaration of war against the Berlin-Moscow and Franco and Bandera joining the league to form a fascist bloc, IJN Yamato facing a great battle in the Atlantic, and PATTON beating the shit out of the Germans and Soviets.
So what also is interesting in this timeline is the lack of the Pacific Theatre (only Japan and China), meaning there would be Navy battles and ultimately the Southeast Asian nations would ultimately be unharmed, especially the Philippines. Like in this timeline:
1) The Philippines gets to preserve some Spanish architects and buildings which would make the Philippines truly a Venice of Asia
2) The Transition to a Full Republic would go unhampered here, meaning that there would be no need for reconstruction and the economy would be stable as well
3) With the defeat and the expulsion of Totalism, the PKP (Partido Kommunista ng Pilipinas) would move themselves to more of friendly socialism or be extinguished as well for those who are harcoe followers, meaning that a Huk resurrection would be minimized.
So I have these questions:
1) What is the overall lore of the Philippines during WW2?
2) Did Quezon and the Commonwealth send forces in the Western Theatre? If so where and how many were sent?
3) Would some of the ships from the Asiatic Fleet be transferred to the Philippines after its independence?
4) Would there be tensions between China and the Philippines over the Spratly Islands? If so, is it possible that the US would fun the Philippines to strengthen its forces?
5) What are the Philippines in the 21st Century?
I know this is a lot, but I have so many questions, so thank you if you ever answer these questions, and once again, the timeline was a masterpiece!
So what also is interesting in this timeline is the lack of the Pacific Theatre (only Japan and China), meaning there would be Navy battles and ultimately the Southeast Asian nations would ultimately be unharmed, especially the Philippines. Like in this timeline:
1) The Philippines gets to preserve some Spanish architects and buildings which would make the Philippines truly a Venice of Asia
2) The Transition to a Full Republic would go unhampered here, meaning that there would be no need for reconstruction and the economy would be stable as well
3) With the defeat and the expulsion of Totalism, the PKP (Partido Kommunista ng Pilipinas) would move themselves to more of friendly socialism or be extinguished as well for those who are harcoe followers, meaning that a Huk resurrection would be minimized.
So I have these questions:
1) What is the overall lore of the Philippines during WW2?
2) Did Quezon and the Commonwealth send forces in the Western Theatre? If so where and how many were sent?
3) Would some of the ships from the Asiatic Fleet be transferred to the Philippines after its independence?
4) Would there be tensions between China and the Philippines over the Spratly Islands? If so, is it possible that the US would fun the Philippines to strengthen its forces?
5) What are the Philippines in the 21st Century?
I know this is a lot, but I have so many questions, so thank you if you ever answer these questions, and once again, the timeline was a masterpiece!
Glad to have you here!
The Philippines sent an all-volunteer unit (about brigade strength) which fought alongside the Americans on the Western Front from late 1942. Their most notable action came from a clash with a force of Waffen-SS in the Rhineland just before Hitler's death, where they inflicted a rather humiliating defeat on the supposed "ubermensch".
Outside of that fight, WW2 didn't leave a great mark on the country, which was pre-occupied with the slow transition to independent rule (overseen first by MacArthur and then William Marquat once MacArthur retired half way through the war).
A few old PT boats and destroyers were just handed over, and a couple of others were bought from the USN when the Third Sino-Japanese War began in 1949. Since then, the Philippine Navy has built a number of its own small vessels, but relies on its allies for larger ships.
Japan occupied the Spratlys in February 1939 and has held them ever since (China formally relinquished its claims to the islands in 1951). China is grumpy about it (as they are about basically every Japanese possession outside of the Home Islands), but as long as the IJN remains the second most powerful Navy in the world, they won't do anything more than be grumpy.
Following independence, the Philippines initially continued to rely on the US for defence, but from the 1960s they became much more closely tied to Japan (Washington's focus was well and truly in Europe) after Tokyo began heavily investing in the country. Today the Philippines is a democracy, albeit a flawed one (Japanese business interests have a significant say, funding a lot of the campaigning!), and a firm member of Tokyo's alliance. The Philippine economy has shown strong growth, although wages and living standards improved slower than OTL's Asian tigers. The difference can largely be attributed to the Japanese zaibatsu, which have effectively created an Asian Gilded Age. Enormous factory complexes in Saigon, Hanoi and Manila had no small role in enabling that.
I've been working on something fun involving Patton
Hopefully real life quietens down a bit soon so I can share it with everyone!Edit: here's what I've been doing lately: https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/patton-in-korea-a-tl.499367/
- BNC
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Oh wow, the day I decided to check out this TL again and the most recent posts were from today!
Anyways, I have some more questions to ask @BiteNibbleChomp about their timeline.
1. Does anything significant happen with Hollywood during or after the main events ITTL?
2. Does Rock and Roll still exist? Most of the major musicians like Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, and Buddy Holly were born pre-PoD, so I assume it still exists in some form?
3. How are Poland and Czechslovakia?
4. What has happened to Ireland and Scotland?
Anyways, I have some more questions to ask @BiteNibbleChomp about their timeline.
1. Does anything significant happen with Hollywood during or after the main events ITTL?
2. Does Rock and Roll still exist? Most of the major musicians like Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, and Buddy Holly were born pre-PoD, so I assume it still exists in some form?
3. How are Poland and Czechslovakia?
4. What has happened to Ireland and Scotland?
The film industry there was already well established by the POD, I see no reason why it would change.
Yeah, it's still around. Butterflies mean it sounds a little different and has different folks at the top, but the idea is still there.
Poland got badly scarred by five years of being the SS' playground, but Marshall Plan-style aid has allowed it to recover to the point that it is similar to Western Europe in terms of development. The Third Republic is much freer than the Second, although revived right-leaning parties such as the National Democrats tend to win most elections, in no small part due to a certain level of national paranoia of being invaded once again (there's tensions with the Ukraine and Russia, who still haven't fully gotten over RCW-era territorial losses, and Germany is still more of a friend-of-a-friend than any close ally) - this has led Warsaw to form a regional alliance with Prague and Bucharest, as well as forming a close alliance with the US.
Czechoslovakia's democracy was restored and continued more-or-less along the path it was following in 1919-33, with greater representation for Slovaks and other minorities given in the government. Having suffered less in the war than most of their neighbours, Czechoslovakia made itself into a popular tourist destination, especially among those who didn't want to be reminded of the recent horrors. Alliance-wise it too is quite close with Washington and Warsaw, and its good relationship with the Italian-aligned fascist powers mean that both regional blocs call upon it to act as a mediator when disputes arise.
Ireland followed a path similar to OTL, and is most closely aligned with the UK/France/Germany alliance although it is not a formal member. Scotland remains part of the UK to this day.
- BNC
France was hurt pretty bad in the war - although the Nazis never overran the whole country, a good chunk of the northeast was still looted, and three years of trench warfare is never good for a local economy. Once Germany was defeated, the French government asked that its troops be used in quieter sectors, with most being tasked with the occupation of Germany. A French contingent was used in the invasion of the USSR, but especially once Spain entered the war, their role was comparatively minor. Virtually every member of the Allies recognised that France simply could not afford any more.How is France doing? Casualties seemed to have been more severe than in WW1. Did the French Army play a part in the invasion of the Soviet Union?
Great TL
The first years of the post-war recovery were troubled and growth remained slow. Rebuilding a heavily bombed Paris was only possible with Marshall Plan aid and the export of minerals from the newly-annexed Saarland, and at the same time the government staggered its way through a number of political crises as the powerful Left sought to distance itself from the communist label. Chinese and Japanese interference split Vietnam from France around 1950, and the African colonies were let go peacefully less than a decade afterwards. Historians to this day wonder how this difficult period didn't drag the Third Republic down too.
France's fortunes improved from the early 1960s, driven in no small part by the closer trade relations formed between France, Germany and Italy. Cooperation with Germany in particular ensured that French engineers would play a key role in building the rockets that would eventually take men to the moon. So often was this boasted about, that New Caledonia's independence in 1981 went almost completely unnoticed by the public!
- BNC
Both, and many others besides. There's as many left-wing ideologies as there are left-leaning people, and without a socially acceptable banner such as "communism" to rally behind, the far left is a bit of a mess ITTL.
- BNC
Sorry for resurrecting the thread, but I would like to ask @BiteNibbleChomp a few more questions.
1. How is the USSR, and Communism as a whole, portrayed ITTL's popular culture?
2. What are video games like ITTL?
3. What is fast food like ITTL?
1. How is the USSR, and Communism as a whole, portrayed ITTL's popular culture?
2. What are video games like ITTL?
3. What is fast food like ITTL?
I'm fairly sure I've discussed this at other points in the thread, but if a TTL pop culture piece of media needs a 'generic bad guy', they just rip off all the tropes of the Soviets just like OTL does with the Nazis.
Fun.
Tasty.
(Seriously, what did you expect me to say on the last two?)
- BNC
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