The Sunne in Splendour: A War of the Roses Timeline

You're telling me they were meant to have more kids? You'd think Madeleine would draw the line by this point, or someone as promiscuous as Edward would grow tired of what's now gotta be deli countertop meat.
First of all, the end comment was unnecessary. Second of all, I'm constantly changing my mind about the kids.

Here goes what I changed that I can say with confidence:
Dickon of York was meant to be Cecily's Irish twin. There was a short-lived daughter between Catherine and George. Both births and the daughter were scrapped because I thought Madeleine needed more time to rest between pregnancies. Also, the daughter, who was to be called Mary whereas the current Mary was named Margaret and the Margaret just born didn't exist, was scrapped because I thought George's death would be more painful if he was the first babe Edward and Madeleine lost.
 
The York heirs are constantly changing. First, there were going to be only five. Then I added some kids to be lost in childhood/infancy/etc. Then I changed the marriage for the new nine kids. Then I created a deep hatred for Elizabeth W that I've currently moved on and wanted Madeleine to have more children/sons with Edward than she did.

So it was 5-7-9-12-14-16. Now we're currently at less than 16, since I had to delete some daughters so princesses like the Bourgogne girls could have good husbands. It's more than ten, that's for sure, but I don't want to say anything in case I change my mind later...
 
Old family trees that are now useless


Mary of York (1465)
Cecily of York (1467)
Katherine of York (1468)
Edward, Prince of Wales (1470)
Richard of York (1472)
Margaret of York (1473)
Edmund of York (1475)

Mary of York (1465)—Maximilian I of the HRE (1459)
Cecily of York (1467)—James IV of Scotland (1469, four years older than the OTL. His mother is also aged up.)
Katherine of York (1468)—Charles VIII of France (1470)
Edward, Prince of Wales (1470)—Anne of Brittany (1472, five years older than OTL)
Richard, Duke of York (1472)—Anne De Mowbray (1472)
Margaret of York (1473)—Thomas Howard, 3rd Duke of Norfolk (1473)
Edmund, Duke of Bedford (1475)—Eleanor Percy (1474)

Edward 1465
Magdalene early 1466
George, Duke of York late 1466
Cecily 1467
John, Duke of Bedford 1468
Katherine 1469
Mary 1470
Richard, Duke of Somerset 1472
Margaret 1473
Edmund, Duke of Normandy 1475
Anne 1476
Eleanor 1477
William 1479
 
I spelt Catherine with a k for the longest time until my peeps at the discord told me it looks better with a C. And a lot of these marriages won't happen so don't go thinking you figured it out.
 
You're telling me they were meant to have more kids? You'd think Madeleine would draw the line by this point, or someone as promiscuous as Edward would grow tired of what's now gotta be deli countertop meat.
What??? I don’t even……🙄😬
 
You're telling me they were meant to have more kids? You'd think Madeleine would draw the line by this point, or someone as promiscuous as Edward would grow tired of what's now gotta be deli countertop meat.
He had 10 kids with Elizabeth in OTL, the last being born when she was over 40. He won't tire of Madeleine.
 
The York heirs are constantly changing. First, there were going to be only five. Then I added some kids to be lost in childhood/infancy/etc. Then I changed the marriage for the new nine kids. Then I created a deep hatred for Elizabeth W that I've currently moved on and wanted Madeleine to have more children/sons with Edward than she did.

So it was 5-7-9-12-14-16. Now we're currently at less than 16, since I had to delete some daughters so princesses like the Bourgogne girls could have good husbands. It's more than ten, that's for sure, but I don't want to say anything in case I change my mind later...
If I was able to find suitable spouses for a possible timeline where all 10 children of Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville survived, and also find good grooms for the Catholic Monarchs’ girls, I am sure you could find some for more of them.
 
If I was able to find suitable spouses for a possible timeline where all 10 children of Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville survived, and also find good grooms for the Catholic Monarchs’ girls, I am sure you could find some for more of them.
Yeah but beyond the catholic monarchs I have the french princesses and Bona of Savoy's daughters.
 
is there any possibility of a york girl for the son of the catholic monarchs ? madeline is still pretty fertile, and juan is only four years away from his OTL birthdate...
 
June 1474.
June 1474. Château de Blois, France.

Little Philippe de Valois was sleeping contently in his mother’s arms, chubby cheeks flushed with life and strength just hours after his birth. Margaret chuckled warmly and adjusted the swaddles around him, trying to see his face a little better. He had a large a nose as her husband, with pouty pink lips and fine brown hair atop his head, but he was still quite beautiful.

Her husband, holding tightly to his cane, leaned forward on wobbly knees, trying to take a better look at their new son. “He does not look like Marie,” he complained.

Margaret sighed. “Marie is in Heaven with our Lord,” she replied, not looking at him.

It had been only a few weeks since her youngest stepdaughter died of smallpox and the court of France was still in mourning. The loss was especially felt when news came only days later that Charles the Bold, their great enemy, managed to betroth his daughter Isabella to Ferrandino d’Aragona, who was once considered for little Marie.

Margaret knew her husband hoped for another daughter from her since they had two healthy sons already. Once, she heard her father say that, after the heir to the throne, daughters were more important than subsequent sons, for princesses were the ones who’d gain alliances for their fathers whereas younger boys could only cause trouble and take away lands from the Dauphin, waiting for someone to die so they could be kings.

“If he lives, we will dedicate him to the church,” said Louis. “It will gain us good standing with the church.” Margaret nodded. “He may very well become Archbishop of Reims one day, and see the children of his brother crowned in their turn.”

Margaret smiled and looked at him. Louis had grown tired from standing and sat down, lips twisted. “Wouldn’t that be wonderful?” she asked. “Like something out of a fairytale."

Louis chuckled, but the smile quickly melted off his face.

“The Pope has accepted Charles’ petition to be recognized as an independent king,” he said, sombre. “He will declare him the King of a reborn Lotharingia once he conquers the Duchy of Lorraine.”

Margaret looked at him, chewing on her lower lips. She looked to the corner of the room, where a maid was awaiting the need for her services and waved the woman closer. She handed Philippe off to her and the woman left, certainly to bring the boy to his wet nurse. When they were finally truly alone, Margaret looked at her husband.

“Then we must prevent that from happening,” she said. “Without Lorraine, Charles le Temeraire can’t unite his lands and claim the title of King. It would be essential to ally ourselves with René II of Lorraine.”

Louis nodded. “I believe we have had the same idea wife,” he said. “Our Margot may marry the Duke when she turns twelve in 1484. It will make the alliance secure, as well as give us a reason beyond our claims in Burgundy to interfere in the war of the traitor.”

Margaret smiled. It was exactly what she had thought. Louis narrowed his eyes when he looked at her, curling a finger under his own chain.

“You are perhaps one of the least foolish women I have ever met, Margaret,” he said. “I suppose I should count myself lucky that you are my wife and not Charles of Burgundy’s, as he once hoped.”

She smiled. That was the highest compliment her husband could ever give her.

Louis stood up, leaning all his weight in his carved cane. “The men are ready to march into Normandy and Calais,” he said. “The Portuguese fleet has stopped the English garrison from sending calls for help to your brother.”

“How did His Grace manage to convince them to break the alliance with London?” she asked. “Portugal and England have been friends since the 1380s.”

Louis smiled. “Anne did,” he responded. “She might be only thirteen, but my daughter is, much like you, a woman with little foolishness in her. I hear she has Prince João wrapped around her finger.” He tilted his head slightly, thinking. “They would never attack English men, but they can ensure some messages are late in reaching their destination.”

Margaret nodded. “And Edward will be none the wiser, I imagine,” she said. “He will be more upset by the loss of Calais and the Norman cities that he will never even stop to think about the lost letters.”

“Precisely,” said Louis. “Are you not upset about the offence that goes to your family?”

“Why should I? I ought to be loyal to my lord and husband, to France, shouldn’t I?” Margaret asked. “The more land you conquer, the more my sons stand to inherit, is that not true?”

“Quite right,” he said. “But some women still carry loyalty for their homelands and their birth families. In your heart, you might still be an Englishwoman and a Lady of the House of York.”

“But I am not, Sire,” said Margaret. “I’m the Queen of France, nothing else.”
 
Louis smiled. “Anne did,” he responded. “She might be only thirteen, but my daughter is, much like you, a woman with little foolishness in her. I hear she has Prince João wrapped around her finger.” He tilted his head slightly, thinking. “They would never attack English men, but they can ensure some messages are late in reaching their destination.”

Margaret nodded. “And Edward will be none the wiser, I imagine,” she said. “He will be more upset by the loss of Calais and the Norman cities that he will never even stop to think about the lost letters.”

“Precisely,” said Louis. “Are you not upset about the offence that goes to your family?”

“Why should I? I ought to be loyal to my lord and husband, to France, shouldn’t I?” Margaret asked. “The more land you conquer, the more my sons stand to inherit, is that not true?”

“Quite right,” he said. “But some women still carry loyalty for their homelands and their birth families. In your heart, you might still be an Englishwoman and a Lady of the House of York.”

“But I am not, Sire,” said Margaret. “I’m the Queen of France, nothing else.”
Love to see Margaret’s suggestions serving Louis well and her proving that she has her loyalties to France first and is a proper Queen consort.
 
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