The Sun, The Stars and The Sickle: Alt-WWII and a Tripolar Postwar World

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Given that the KMT forces are attempting to advance rather than dug in, even aircraft cannon strafing can be rather nasty. With bombs and battleship-grade fire incoming, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the KMT units arrange "accidents" for officers who try to force the men into killzones.

While the National Army is much better disciplined TTL, and isn't doing stuff like selling their weapons to the Communists, such events, especially if repeated, may drive many former skeptics of the Union right into their arms.
 
However in WW2 air-to-ground tank kills proved to be very highly over reported by both sides. Long distance artillery kills on tanks were rarer still. A tanks primary killer is the anti-tank gun (tracked or towed).

ric350
 
Nice update there.

Good to read of a victory!

Obviously the Nazi command will demand both objectives done by splitting their forces and taking both as the Glorious German War Machine can’t be broken by sub-Human Soviets!
 
However in WW2 air-to-ground tank kills proved to be very highly over reported by both sides. Long distance artillery kills on tanks were rarer still. A tanks primary killer is the anti-tank gun (tracked or towed).

ric350

Absolutely!

In this case, AA and field guns are being pressed into the AT role rather than scoring a lot of particularly lucky long-range hits.
 
Is Barnes Wallis up to his OTL designs and plans re precision, huge bomb strikes, and how are the changes in the war playing out?

Barnes Wallis is indeed up to his mad scientist projects, and "Bomber" Harris is in the same position as OTL. The major differences TTL are that Shorts has developed the Stirling Mk. III with a lightly modified 118ft. Sunderland wing and more powerful Bristol Hercules radials, giving it much better altitude performance. Made in Canada, it should be ready for squadron service by late 1942, and will work alongside the Lancaster; Handley-Page's Halifax will see much more limited production.

On the American side, Boeing and Allison are working up a prototype XB-38, essentially an inline engined Flying Fortress; and Bell-Fisher is working up a prototype long-range escort fighter.
 
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At this point in terms of treatment of PoWs...

On a scale with 0 being the OTL IJA capturing OTL ROC troops and 10 being OTL UK troops capturing Wehrmacht troops.

Where are
ROC captures allied troops
Allied troops capturing ROC
(and are UOC captures treated differently than others?)
 
At this point in terms of treatment of PoWs...

On a scale with 0 being the OTL IJA capturing OTL ROC troops and 10 being OTL UK troops capturing Wehrmacht troops.

Where are
ROC captures allied troops
Allied troops capturing ROC
(and are UOC captures treated differently than others?)

A good question!

Accounting for variations in conditions in different camps, RoC PoW camps would work out to about a 6 for Japanese and Western PoWs. Conditions uphold most of not all of the requirements of the Geneva Convention, although the food is poor in quality, and in most camps there is overcrowding, some severely. For UoC prisoners, conditions are at about a 5, as in some camps, some prisoners are subjected to intense interrogation, sometimes systematically, sometimes at random. Some RoC commandants stress the importance of treating UoC prisoners well, hoping for defections.

As for Allied PoW camps, conditions are at about a 7-7.5. While some of the camps are crowded, there is always enough food, and camp guards are closely supervised.

I should also mention the small Norwegian camps for Wehrmacht personnel, after Norway was liberated. Conditions there would come in at 10, almost like the long vacation in Canada enjoyed by other German PoWs.
 
This may have been addressed earlier in the thread, though I could not find such: is the Special Naval Landing Force still extant TTL? Hirohito has already called the army and navy on the carpet due to their antics interfering with coordination of Japanese air power, with the question of an independent air force to be debated postwar. Amphibious warfare is a vital area, and one that needs to be clearly defined to rein in the right hand vs. left hand rivalry. Japan could follow the US model and establish a fully separate service, or as another option could focus on expanding and modernizing the SNLF to keep up with the needs of the World War and subsequent equilibrium.
 
Yes, the SNLF exists. It's under navy command, but it's a small force. So far, they've been deployed to assist in defending Hong Kong, and as part of the Allied assault on Shanghai.
 
This may have been addressed earlier in the thread, though I could not find such: is the Special Naval Landing Force still extant TTL? Hirohito has already called the army and navy on the carpet due to their antics interfering with coordination of Japanese air power, with the question of an independent air force to be debated postwar. Amphibious warfare is a vital area, and one that needs to be clearly defined to rein in the right hand vs. left hand rivalry. Japan could follow the US model and establish a fully separate service, or as another option could focus on expanding and modernizing the SNLF to keep up with the needs of the World War and subsequent equilibrium.

Adding to @Jaenera Targaryen 's observation, there is a ready model in the Royal Marines for the direction of the SNLF. There is very strong espirit de corps within the SNLF, and their distinct black boots and helmets bearing anchors set them apart from the IJA visually.

There is one additional measure of compatibility with the Army- the SNLF has adopted the same caliber weapons (7.7 × 58 mm Arisaka Type 99), instead of retaining weapons in a copy of .303 British.
 
A good question!

Accounting for variations in conditions in different camps, RoC PoW camps would work out to about a 6 for Japanese and Western PoWs. Conditions uphold most of not all of the requirements of the Geneva Convention, although the food is poor in quality, and in most camps there is overcrowding, some severely. For UoC prisoners, conditions are at about a 5, as in some camps, some prisoners are subjected to intense interrogation, sometimes systematically, sometimes at random. Some RoC commandants stress the importance of treating UoC prisoners well, hoping for defections.

As for Allied PoW camps, conditions are at about a 7-7.5. While some of the camps are crowded, there is always enough food, and camp guards are closely supervised.

I should also mention the small Norwegian camps for Wehrmacht personnel, after Norway was liberated. Conditions there would come in at 10, almost like the long vacation in Canada enjoyed by other German PoWs.
So International Red Cross visits even in the RoC? Note, I do wonder what the status is of the Chinese Red Cross and any Red Cross created in the UoC. It actually doesn't seem like the Chinese Red Cross has done enough to get expelled. (I'm still unclear as to when the International Red Cross expelled the RoC Red Cross iOTL.) Something to be sorted out after the war if there are still two chinese governments.

I presume that all allied PoW camps are within the UoC and run by the UoC with occasional visits by the Allies. Both the land and the personnel to guard them are there. The other choice would be the Philippines, especially for Chinese captured in the Burma/Thailand/Malaysia theatre.
 
So International Red Cross visits even in the RoC? Note, I do wonder what the status is of the Chinese Red Cross and any Red Cross created in the UoC. It actually doesn't seem like the Chinese Red Cross has done enough to get expelled. (I'm still unclear as to when the International Red Cross expelled the RoC Red Cross iOTL.) Something to be sorted out after the war if there are still two chinese governments.

I presume that all allied PoW camps are within the UoC and run by the UoC with occasional visits by the Allies. Both the land and the personnel to guard them are there. The other choice would be the Philippines, especially for Chinese captured in the Burma/Thailand/Malaysia theatre.

I suggest Australia, in particular the outback. Nowhere to go.
 
So International Red Cross visits even in the RoC? Note, I do wonder what the status is of the Chinese Red Cross and any Red Cross created in the UoC. It actually doesn't seem like the Chinese Red Cross has done enough to get expelled. (I'm still unclear as to when the International Red Cross expelled the RoC Red Cross iOTL.) Something to be sorted out after the war if there are still two chinese governments.

There is indeed a Red Cross in both Chinas, the RoC's TTL at least not having done anything to merit expulsion. Both Chinas argue that they are the one legitimate China, and having a Red Cross is part and parcel of the image each China is trying to craft.

I presume that all allied PoW camps are within the UoC and run by the UoC with occasional visits by the Allies. Both the land and the personnel to guard them are there. The other choice would be the Philippines, especially for Chinese captured in the Burma/Thailand/Malaysia theatre.

Most of the Allied-captured prisoners are indeed held in the UoC in camps run by UoC personnel with largely American supervision. In the earliest days of the conflict, there were also camps in the Philippines and Manchukuo as well. In the Burma/Thailand/Malaya theatre, Australia is the destination for most prisoners.
 
There is indeed a Red Cross in both Chinas, the RoC's TTL at least not having done anything to merit expulsion. Both Chinas argue that they are the one legitimate China, and having a Red Cross is part and parcel of the image each China is trying to craft.


Most of the Allied-captured prisoners are indeed held in the UoC in camps run by UoC personnel with largely American supervision. In the earliest days of the conflict, there were also camps in the Philippines and Manchukuo as well. In the Burma/Thailand/Malaya theatre, Australia is the destination for most prisoners.

With China as fragmented as it will be by the 1960s, we'll see how many there end up being that can be mutually admitted. (Presumably the UoC and the Japanese Puppets at least)

Is there any reason *not* to assume that the POW locations iOTL in Australia would be used iTTL for RoC soldiers? (not sure whether the numbers of POWs sent to Australia would be more, less or about the same)
 
With China as fragmented as it will be by the 1960s, we'll see how many there end up being that can be mutually admitted. (Presumably the UoC and the Japanese Puppets at least)

That's an interesting point. The UoC will not be happy with the continued existence of Manchukuo. If this were OTL Japan and the extreme militarists were running the show, they might do something stupid - like continue trying to annex more of China while it's being protected by the world's biggest industrial power. TTL, however, I'm guessing that the best move for Japan is to quietly drop any claims of Pujie's right to rule the rest of the country, but insist on international recognition of Manchukuo - the Allies can hardly refuse after taking their help in toppling Chiang and Hitler.

And somewhere, the CCP is still kicking around...
 
Manchukuo and Mengjiang already recognized internationally. Provisionally by the USA, true, but Britain and the Commonwealth, along with France and Italy's Mediterranean Accord have given them full recognition.

And the ultra-nationalists and militarists have already been purged. The civilian government cemented its power in the 1920s by keeping Qingdao and not having to scrap or cancel any ships thanks to WNT (excess battleship hulls were all converted to carriers), and while the Great Depression was still a blow, the civilian government subsequently used the international censure following the Mukden Incident to tar the hard right. Then came a series of failed coups which the Emperor used as an excuse to purge the officer corps, which wasn't as infiltrated with extremists as IOTL thanks to an apparent program by the IJA to have senior and flag officers be sent to study in France during the interwar period.

Granted, the civilian government still didn't back down over Manchukuo and Mengjiang, but in the 1920 and 1930s both were considered in the grey area of Chinese sovereignty anyway. For instance, IOTL, a withdrawal from Manchukuo was not a requirement for lifting of sanctions.
 
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... Sorry, I can see now that my comment was confusingly worded. I meant that because the ultra-nationalists are already out of power (one of the most important second-order effects of the POD), coexistence with the UoC is certainly possible (particularly since Manchukuo and Mengjiang are being run without OTL abuses).
 
Manchukuo and Mengjiang already recognized internationally. Provisionally by the USA, true, but Britain and the Commonwealth, along with France and Italy's Mediterranean Accord have given them full recognition.

And the ultra-nationalists and militarists have already been purged. The civilian government cemented its power in the 1920s by keeping Qingdao and not having to scrap or cancel any ships thanks to WNT (excess battleship hulls were all converted to carriers), and while the Great Depression was still a blow, the civilian government subsequently used the international censure following the Mukden Incident to tar the hard right. Then came a series of failed coups which the Emperor used as an excuse to purge the officer corps, which wasn't as infiltrated with extremists as IOTL thanks to an apparent program by the IJA to have senior and flag officers be sent to study in France during the interwar period.

Granted, the civilian government still didn't back down over Manchukuo and Mengjiang, but in the 1920 and 1930s both were considered in the grey area of Chinese sovereignty anyway. For instance, IOTL, a withdrawal from Manchukuo was not a requirement for lifting of sanctions.

That is indeed the case!

As for some additional background:

-The retention of Tsingtao was negotiated during the time of the Washington Naval Treaty negotiations, and were key in getting Japan to accept a 10:6 rather than 10:7 ratio on cruiser tonnage. Mutually beneficial as all parties got something they wanted, except for warlord-era China.

-France was chosen as the destination for IJA officers not only due to historical cooperation, but also because France was the preeminent Continental power, and the victor of the last major war. Just as the IJN learned from Nelson's heirs, the IJA would learn from Napoleon's heirs. It certainly didn't hurt that many of the officers who received a French military education were peers or sons of peers, and were able to make influential friendships and learn about European high society and its workings.

-Trade plays a huge part in the way Japan must conduct itself now. The Navy managed to have all of their wishes for a bigger and thirstier fleet granted. Without oil, and without cash to pay for it, it is useless. The Fleet keeps the Communazis from attacking Tokyo next week, so that must never be allowed to happen.

Ah, and Italy's recognition of Manchukuo and Mengjiang is still provisional; Benny is hedging his bets
 
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That's an interesting point. The UoC will not be happy with the continued existence of Manchukuo. If this were OTL Japan and the extreme militarists were running the show, they might do something stupid - like continue trying to annex more of China while it's being protected by the world's biggest industrial power. TTL, however, I'm guessing that the best move for Japan is to quietly drop any claims of Pujie's right to rule the rest of the country, but insist on international recognition of Manchukuo - the Allies can hardly refuse after taking their help in toppling Chiang and Hitler.

And somewhere, the CCP is still kicking around...

Wu is taking an incrementalist approach here. China is very old and very big, and has endured much. This too shall pass. As of now, in Wu's estimation, things aren't that bad- Japan has everything they want and can deal with, as TTL, the greatest shame comes from claiming territory for the Emperor and then losing it; and the largest economic power is the Union's largest ally. From there, things can be re-negotiated as China grows more powerful.

The situation TTL has also satiated Japan's desire to be taken seriously as an Imperial power. Not only does she have her place in the sun- The South Seas Mandate, Northeast Asia is Japan's de facto sphere of influence. It would be foolish to jeopardize that.

As for the most influential militarists, Sadao Araki is under house arrest for his role in influencing coup plotters, Seishiro Itagaki was demoted to colonel and "retired" from the Army on half-pay for groping a geisha, and Kenji Doihara was dismissed from the Army on the advice of his commanding officer, Field Marshal Nobuyoshi Muto, on the pretext of Doihara's well-known opium addiction. Following that Doihara has had middling success a shipping broker, with alleged yakuza ties and a hand in smuggling, although allegations have not yet been proven.
 
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