I'm not sure what a threadmark is, despite all the buttons. Help?
Also I'm really happy you like this!
Also I'm really happy you like this!
The Marriage of the Century - A Burgundian Timeline
- Thread starter BlueFlowwer
- Start date
Threadmarks would help. Go to the bottom of each of your posts with chapters and press the one that says "Threadmark." A screen will pop up. Label the threadmark whatever you fancy labelling it and then press "Add Threadmark". Ta Da! It just helps people who want to catch up skimread the story parts by skipping all the discussion and going there automatically, see?
Lovely chapter, by the way!
I'm gonna try to make some good threadmarks.
Also if anyone has some ideas for a bride for little Philip and perhaps a groom for Mary, then suggestions away!
Also if anyone has some ideas for a bride for little Philip and perhaps a groom for Mary, then suggestions away!
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I think I'm gonna lable the dates instead. I already have the chapters in the titles.
How does it look now?
How does it look now?
Notice
My writings got eaten by my computer, so I'm gonna need to start over again with the remaining chapters. Gonna take a few days, sorry!
My writings got eaten by my computer, so I'm gonna need to start over again with the remaining chapters. Gonna take a few days, sorry!
Oh good to see Louis actually losing Burgundy
But let’s see how long it takes before he starts some war over this and then promptly gets trashed
Nicholas of Anjou died in 1473 didn't he? So that window is open for a short time.
The prospect of his firstborn becoming Holy Roman Empress might be appealing to Charles, so Maximilian would be a solid option as well. With a glitter dowry of course...
The prospect of his firstborn becoming Holy Roman Empress might be appealing to Charles, so Maximilian would be a solid option as well. With a glitter dowry of course...
I personally hope that Philippe isn't his mom's ONLY child. A little brother or sister would be interesting.
As to brides/grooms:
For Marie: the Elector Palatine, duke of Lorraine, Maximilian or the duke of Savoy.
For Philippe: Philippine of Guelders could wrap up a very thorny issue. Maybe a double match of Marie to Federigo of Naples, Philippe to Isabella of Naples? The king of France might offer Jeanne de Valois - age be damned.
Hmmm, these are all good choices. I haven't decided on matches yet for either of Charles's children.
Margaret of York might or might not enjoy as great luck in fertility. Otl, she had no children, but given she had a baby like 9 months from the wedding, Charles is probably gonna be even more affectionate.
Margaret of York might or might not enjoy as great luck in fertility. Otl, she had no children, but given she had a baby like 9 months from the wedding, Charles is probably gonna be even more affectionate.
On the other side, a Burgundy-Brittany-England empire would be amazing.
Smelling salts, please. I feel faint with happiness.
Nicholas of Anjou’s death can very well be butterflied as we have already changes around him (if Mary is not anymore the heiress of Burgundy is likely who Louis XI will not feel the necessity to offer his daughter Anne to Nicholas for preventing his wedding to Mary).
Jeanne of France will still be married to Orleans (that match is a needed waste because Louis can not consent to let Orléans marry another girl)
I would say either Nicholas of Anjou or Maximilian of Austria for Mary and for Philip the leading candidates are Philippa of Guelders, Mary and Cecily of York (James IV of Scotland here can very well marry Anne of York)... I still think the Milanese match will be the most logical choice for Isabella of Naples but maybe her sister-in-law Bianca Maria Sforza can be taken in consideration while Anne of Brittany, Charlotte of Naples, Joanna of Naples and Juana of Aragon and Castile are sadly too young...
Those are all good points. Let's see what happens. The rest of Europe's royal families might change...
I think a double marriage for Burgundy and Austria is possible, Mary for Maximilian, Kunigunde for Philip.
Chapter 4. 1470-71
Chapter 4. An English Storm 1470-72
The marriage of Margaret of York to Charles the Bold’s marriage to Margaret of York had been a grand success for Edward IV of England. Misfortune struck shortly after Margaret left. Elizabeth Woodville gave birth to a stillborn daughter in the summer, leaving Edward a widow with two toddling girls, Elizabeth, and Mary of York.
The Woodville faction quickly pushed quickly for another bride from their family, seventeen-year-old Eleanor Woodville, the late queen’s unmarried sister. Several members of the nobility were alarmed by how quickly the many pushy and greedy relatives moved to engulf king and country, especially Richard Neville, the 16th earl of Warwick and Edward’s brother George, Duke of Clarence. The winter and spring of the shifting year of 1469 to 1470 saw a dwindling support for Edward and the Lancastrian’s cause being raised from the apparent dead.
Louis XI of France was of course the backer behind the resurgent of Margaret of Anjou and her son, Edward of Westminster, only legitimate child of the deposed Henry VI of England. With both Warwick and Clarence throwing their support behind Margaret and even marrying Edward to Anne Neville, Warwick’s younger daughter, Charles and Burgundy saw the writing on the wall. Margaret herself wrote to both of her brothers while the duke repeatedly warned Edward IV of the upcoming danger. Sadly, it had little effect. Edward was unprepared to handle the invasion of Lancastrian forces early spring and had to flee England for the safety of the Low Countries.
Warwick the Kingmaker, 16th century portrait.
The arrival of the king of England as a penniless refugee incurred Charles’s wrath. Now having been proved that Edward neither sought or heard council from his allies, Charles refused to meet them and instead allowed the Lord of Gruuthuyse to take Edward and his brother, Richard, duke of Gloucester in.
Despite the duchess of Burgundy begging her husband to see her brother, Charles refused to let her travel to the Hauge and instead ordered her to stay near Brussels.
The official reason was of course that since his wife was once more pregnant, having conceived in in late summer, Charles did not want Margaret to have any increased turbulence now that her lying in occurred in the palace of Brussels.
By early march the duke joined his wife at Brussels and finally, after both countless petitions and the threat of Louis XI became too great, Edward of York met him there. With both his own heir Philip’s and his brother-in laws realms in danger, Charles at last provided the backing to take back England for the York cause. 30, 000 crowns and around seventeen ships, by both the duchy and the Hanseatic Traders provided enough for the expedition. An agreement to wed Mary to Philip also concluded the alliance, with the understanding that Edward would pay the dowry in return for Charles’s help later.
Margaret herself actively raised money for her brother’s mission from her dower towns. However, her activities became limited as her entered her lying in. After midnight at the 9th of April the duchess gave birth to a daughter. The infant, despite being female, was as strong as her brother, proving her lung capacity to the degree that the attendants said it was a boy. Charles himself did not consider his newborn daughter as a waste, rather as a hope for his dynasty. Margaret herself was delighted with her little girl and remained at Brussel until the summer, recovering from the birth. The little girl christened Isabella for her grandmother, Isabella of Portugal, would remain at the castle, as her brother Philip stayed in Ghent for the time being. The little boy had become an energic and curious toddler.
Monforte Altarpiece, The adorations of King, by Hugo van der Goes.
The altarpiece was made around the time of Isabella's birth and the virgin is believed to have been in the likeness of the duchess Margaret. Hugo van der Goes worked with the decorations that celebrated the marriage in 1468.
The birth of Isabella and the news from England, that Edward IV had retaken his throne would provide joy to Burgundy and the summer were spend mostly in peace. Edward would suffer another tragic loss however, as his eldest daughter Elizabeth of York had been taken into care of her uncle George when London ended under siege. The little girl had perished in his custody, most likely from lack of care. The loss made George and Warwick to turn desperate as they now were seen as having murdered a beautiful princess and they became more unpopular as ever. Mary of York thus remained her father’s only legitimate child and Edward desperately needed a new bride. His first option had been Mary of Burgundy, but her father were not willing to give his daughter to Edward as the betrothal to Lorraine became more important.
Another option was Princess Joanna of Portugal, the daughter of King Alfonso V of Portugal. However, the lady in question did not wish to wed at all and after a few months, the marriage talks had been abandoned. Another pressing issue was that Anne Neville had become pregnant during her marriage to Edward of Westminster after the autumn and if she were to bear a son, the Lancastrians could reasonable strengthen their claim to England.
However, Edward would find a bride in 1470 from Scotland. The second daughter of James II and Mary of Guelders had been born in 1455 and thus 15 years old at the time. As Margaret Stewart came with a dowry, a royal linage and a assurance that the Lancastrians would find no support in Scotland, Edward signed the marriage contract and wedded her in November that very year.
Margaret of Scotland, Queen of England from 1470
The marriage between Edward and Margaret did not turn out to be a great match. The king stood as tall as 6 feet four, being known as an energetic and handsome man who easily captured the eyes of the ladies in court. By comparison, the queen was short, fat and pasty with thin hair, an overly large nose, and a shrill voice. While no one could say that she was not a kind person to her ladies and loving stepmother to little Mary of York, the courtiers and nobles had a cold reaction to her.
The pressure to produce a son was high from the first days and increased after Anne Neville’s pregnancy progressed during the winter. Margaret did not fell pregnant until early spring, announcing her pregnancy in March 1471, a few weeks before Anne Neville became due with her baby. Anne Neville delivered a son to Edward of Westminster, while Margaret gave birth to a daughter in the middle of December. The little girl was christened Cecily for her grandmother, Cecily Neville.
The resurgence of Lancastrians ended at the Battle of Tewkesbury in May of 1471. Despite the recent increase in support for Edward of Westminster and Warwick being on his side, Edward won the battle with decisive force, smashing through the enemy forces like a giant. His brother Richard, Duke Gloucester commanded the vanguard and aided the victory for the king. Both Warwick and Westminster were killed during the action and the surviving Lancastrian commanders hunted down and executed afterwards. Margaret of Anjou ended up as a prisoner of Edward and imprisoned in the Tower of London.
Another stroke of fortune for Edward came after Christmas, as the infant son of Westminster and Anne Neville died at seventh months old of a fever. In the spring of 1472 Anne was allowed to marry Richard, her childhood sweetheart. However, as Edward held his brother George responsible for his daughter Elizabeth’s death, Edward took several parts of the Warwick’s estates before he allowed the match. The act infuriated George, but as he was rather dependant of his brother’s grace now, he stayed put, simmering with fury.
Anne and Richard would have two daughters, Cecily, and Anne in 1475 and 1478 during their marriage.
The sole Lancastrian threat to the Yorks now consisted solely of the fourteen-year-old Henry Tudor, hiding in Brittany. Edward’s reign from here on out stayed mostly peaceful until his death in 1482, when the crisis came back in full force.
His relationship with Queen Margaret would yield three more children, Edward in 1475, Richard in 1477 who died in 1481 and Margaret in 1480.
Unfortunately for Edward and his grand plans, neither of his children would live to take the throne after his passing. But that was unknown in 1472.
King Edward IV of England
The marriage of Margaret of York to Charles the Bold’s marriage to Margaret of York had been a grand success for Edward IV of England. Misfortune struck shortly after Margaret left. Elizabeth Woodville gave birth to a stillborn daughter in the summer, leaving Edward a widow with two toddling girls, Elizabeth, and Mary of York.
The Woodville faction quickly pushed quickly for another bride from their family, seventeen-year-old Eleanor Woodville, the late queen’s unmarried sister. Several members of the nobility were alarmed by how quickly the many pushy and greedy relatives moved to engulf king and country, especially Richard Neville, the 16th earl of Warwick and Edward’s brother George, Duke of Clarence. The winter and spring of the shifting year of 1469 to 1470 saw a dwindling support for Edward and the Lancastrian’s cause being raised from the apparent dead.
Louis XI of France was of course the backer behind the resurgent of Margaret of Anjou and her son, Edward of Westminster, only legitimate child of the deposed Henry VI of England. With both Warwick and Clarence throwing their support behind Margaret and even marrying Edward to Anne Neville, Warwick’s younger daughter, Charles and Burgundy saw the writing on the wall. Margaret herself wrote to both of her brothers while the duke repeatedly warned Edward IV of the upcoming danger. Sadly, it had little effect. Edward was unprepared to handle the invasion of Lancastrian forces early spring and had to flee England for the safety of the Low Countries.
Warwick the Kingmaker, 16th century portrait.
The arrival of the king of England as a penniless refugee incurred Charles’s wrath. Now having been proved that Edward neither sought or heard council from his allies, Charles refused to meet them and instead allowed the Lord of Gruuthuyse to take Edward and his brother, Richard, duke of Gloucester in.
Despite the duchess of Burgundy begging her husband to see her brother, Charles refused to let her travel to the Hauge and instead ordered her to stay near Brussels.
The official reason was of course that since his wife was once more pregnant, having conceived in in late summer, Charles did not want Margaret to have any increased turbulence now that her lying in occurred in the palace of Brussels.
By early march the duke joined his wife at Brussels and finally, after both countless petitions and the threat of Louis XI became too great, Edward of York met him there. With both his own heir Philip’s and his brother-in laws realms in danger, Charles at last provided the backing to take back England for the York cause. 30, 000 crowns and around seventeen ships, by both the duchy and the Hanseatic Traders provided enough for the expedition. An agreement to wed Mary to Philip also concluded the alliance, with the understanding that Edward would pay the dowry in return for Charles’s help later.
Margaret herself actively raised money for her brother’s mission from her dower towns. However, her activities became limited as her entered her lying in. After midnight at the 9th of April the duchess gave birth to a daughter. The infant, despite being female, was as strong as her brother, proving her lung capacity to the degree that the attendants said it was a boy. Charles himself did not consider his newborn daughter as a waste, rather as a hope for his dynasty. Margaret herself was delighted with her little girl and remained at Brussel until the summer, recovering from the birth. The little girl christened Isabella for her grandmother, Isabella of Portugal, would remain at the castle, as her brother Philip stayed in Ghent for the time being. The little boy had become an energic and curious toddler.
Monforte Altarpiece, The adorations of King, by Hugo van der Goes.
The altarpiece was made around the time of Isabella's birth and the virgin is believed to have been in the likeness of the duchess Margaret. Hugo van der Goes worked with the decorations that celebrated the marriage in 1468.
The birth of Isabella and the news from England, that Edward IV had retaken his throne would provide joy to Burgundy and the summer were spend mostly in peace. Edward would suffer another tragic loss however, as his eldest daughter Elizabeth of York had been taken into care of her uncle George when London ended under siege. The little girl had perished in his custody, most likely from lack of care. The loss made George and Warwick to turn desperate as they now were seen as having murdered a beautiful princess and they became more unpopular as ever. Mary of York thus remained her father’s only legitimate child and Edward desperately needed a new bride. His first option had been Mary of Burgundy, but her father were not willing to give his daughter to Edward as the betrothal to Lorraine became more important.
Another option was Princess Joanna of Portugal, the daughter of King Alfonso V of Portugal. However, the lady in question did not wish to wed at all and after a few months, the marriage talks had been abandoned. Another pressing issue was that Anne Neville had become pregnant during her marriage to Edward of Westminster after the autumn and if she were to bear a son, the Lancastrians could reasonable strengthen their claim to England.
However, Edward would find a bride in 1470 from Scotland. The second daughter of James II and Mary of Guelders had been born in 1455 and thus 15 years old at the time. As Margaret Stewart came with a dowry, a royal linage and a assurance that the Lancastrians would find no support in Scotland, Edward signed the marriage contract and wedded her in November that very year.
Margaret of Scotland, Queen of England from 1470
The marriage between Edward and Margaret did not turn out to be a great match. The king stood as tall as 6 feet four, being known as an energetic and handsome man who easily captured the eyes of the ladies in court. By comparison, the queen was short, fat and pasty with thin hair, an overly large nose, and a shrill voice. While no one could say that she was not a kind person to her ladies and loving stepmother to little Mary of York, the courtiers and nobles had a cold reaction to her.
The pressure to produce a son was high from the first days and increased after Anne Neville’s pregnancy progressed during the winter. Margaret did not fell pregnant until early spring, announcing her pregnancy in March 1471, a few weeks before Anne Neville became due with her baby. Anne Neville delivered a son to Edward of Westminster, while Margaret gave birth to a daughter in the middle of December. The little girl was christened Cecily for her grandmother, Cecily Neville.
The resurgence of Lancastrians ended at the Battle of Tewkesbury in May of 1471. Despite the recent increase in support for Edward of Westminster and Warwick being on his side, Edward won the battle with decisive force, smashing through the enemy forces like a giant. His brother Richard, Duke Gloucester commanded the vanguard and aided the victory for the king. Both Warwick and Westminster were killed during the action and the surviving Lancastrian commanders hunted down and executed afterwards. Margaret of Anjou ended up as a prisoner of Edward and imprisoned in the Tower of London.
Another stroke of fortune for Edward came after Christmas, as the infant son of Westminster and Anne Neville died at seventh months old of a fever. In the spring of 1472 Anne was allowed to marry Richard, her childhood sweetheart. However, as Edward held his brother George responsible for his daughter Elizabeth’s death, Edward took several parts of the Warwick’s estates before he allowed the match. The act infuriated George, but as he was rather dependant of his brother’s grace now, he stayed put, simmering with fury.
Anne and Richard would have two daughters, Cecily, and Anne in 1475 and 1478 during their marriage.
The sole Lancastrian threat to the Yorks now consisted solely of the fourteen-year-old Henry Tudor, hiding in Brittany. Edward’s reign from here on out stayed mostly peaceful until his death in 1482, when the crisis came back in full force.
His relationship with Queen Margaret would yield three more children, Edward in 1475, Richard in 1477 who died in 1481 and Margaret in 1480.
Unfortunately for Edward and his grand plans, neither of his children would live to take the throne after his passing. But that was unknown in 1472.
King Edward IV of England
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