The Jaguar's Roar - An Aztec Timeline

[In Da Nai Al]

Meanwhile, hundreds of miles to the west, in the city that would be nicknamed the "Venice of the New World" by awed European visitors in the future, Moctezuma was busy mobilizing an army of truly gigantic proportions to crush the invaders once and for all.

Scratch what I said, the gods will forgive you for your follies, Moctezuma. At least you're acting like the Revered Speaker you're supposed to be now.

he Mexica did not, however, intend to gamble everything on a big field battle despite their massive numerical superiority, but, instead, they set up an ambush right in the middle of the route the Spanish used to reach Tenochtitlan in 1519. The army was split into two forces of roughly equal size, one half being tasked with executing the main attack while the other stayed back as a reserve to be deployed if the situation called for it (1).

Huzzah, strategy! Its amazing how much can change with decent leadership.

Thus, the Battle of Ocotelolco, which took place on June 27, was decided not by elaborate tactics or soldierly courage, but by treachery, since the troops under Xicotencatl's command - who made up most of what remained of the Tlaxcaltec army - suddenly returned home a day before battle was joined, abandoning the Spanish to their fate. In a matter of hours, every member of Cortés' army was either dead or captured, although a number of captains argued that at least some of the Spaniards should be spared so they could be interrogated later (4). As if that wasn't good enough, this victory ensured that all of Tlaxcala fell under Aztec control, with only Tizatlan being allowed to retain its dynasty thanks to Xicotencatl's actions.

Please tell me they got Malinche. I get why she did what she did, but colluding with invaders seldom ends well when defeated.

Little did he know that he would be forced to face an entirely new threat in just a few months.

It's either Plague, Europeans, or both. Poor Mexica.

This was splendidly written, and I am very much looking forward to more.

 

[Vinization]

Scratch what I said, the gods will forgive you for your follies, Moctezuma. At least you're acting like the Revered Speaker you're supposed to be now.

Huzzah, strategy! Its amazing how much can change with decent leadership.

Please tell me they got Malinche. I get why she did what she did, but colluding with invaders seldom ends well when defeated.

It's either Plague, Europeans, or both. Poor Mexica.

This was splendidly written, and I am very much looking forward to more.

Why, thank you! 😊

It's true that colluding (willingly or not) with invaders who act like gigantic assholes before they are defeated tends to shorten people's lifespans quite drastically, but since Malinche is a translator she could be very useful to her new captors, assuming of course that they are in a good mood by the time they choose who'll be put through open heart surgery at the Templo Mayor.

As for Moctezuma, the reason I chose having him escape from the Europeans' clutches instead of a nastier Noche Triste as a POD is because I'm a sucker for tragic/unlucky figures who often get an unnecessarily bad rep (Darius III, Charles Albert of Sardinia, etc) because they failed to reach their objectives, sometimes spectacularly. Most of what we know about his behavior comes from the time he was a hostage who was forced to do whatever Cortés wanted, so I decided to depart from the usual portrayal of him as an useful idiot.

 

[Red Angel]

1. I see the Mexicas are gonna be very powerful with the Spaniards gears.
2. It's gonna be very useful to gain information from their POWs.
3. my best guess with what would happen is either the plague or betrayal from the inside.

This was good,but I still hope you keep the Mesoamerican keeps their culture, clothing, and religion, just reform the religion, but nonetheless good work, and good luck with this.

 

[Vinization]

1. I see the Mexicas are gonna be very powerful with the Spaniards gears.
2. It's gonna be very useful to gain information from their POWs.
3. my best guess with what would happen is either the plague or betrayal from the inside.

This was good,but I still hope you keep the Mesoamerican keeps their culture, clothing, and religion, just reform the religion, but nonetheless good work, and good luck with this.

I'm glad you liked the update! I can't say anything else or I'll end up telling things I'm not supposed to.

 

[CountDVB]

This should be a lot of fun!

 

[GameBawesome]

Interesting timeline so far. Although, I’ve said this countless of times in other Aztec threads, I have a feeling the Aztec hold on their empire is going to crumble due to disease and future Europeans. It’d be like how the Ashikaga Clan lost their authority and control over their land, and I have feeling it’s going to happen here. If that does happen, if Tenochtitlan wants to reestablish their empire, they’re going to need an unorthodox leader down the line.

Also, I’m wondering without Mexico, how this will effect the Spanish Economy, the Inca Empire, and Ming China down the line

 

[Grammar Kaiser]

Interesting timeline so far. Although, I’ve said this countless of times in other Aztec threads, I have a feeling the Aztec hold on their empire is going to crumble due to disease and future Europeans. It’d be like how the Ashikaga Clan lost their authority and control over their land, and I have feeling it’s going to happen here. If that does happen, if Tenochtitlan wants to reestablish their empire, they’re going to need an unorthodox leader down the line.

Also, I’m wondering without Mexico, how this will effect the Spanish Economy, the Inca Empire, and Ming China down the line

Something that's oft been said, including in this thread; is that without the conquest of the Aztec Empire, The Spanish would be discouraged from any further conquest of the more civilized native states. restricting themselves to the more tribal societies like the nearly extinct Taino.

 

[Red Angel]

I'm glad you liked the update! I can't say anything else or I'll end up telling things I'm not supposed to.

Ah ok and your welcome, continue what you do just don't burn yourself out

 

[saluto]

The Conquest was a close run thing OTL, so it’s fantastic to have a TL exploring what might have happened if it’d failed.

 

[Vinization]

Ming China

I'm not sure if they'll be affected to a significant extent early on to be honest, since IIRC they actually got most of their silver from Japan. Still, butterflies are of course inevitable.

 

[Lisowczycy]

Hope Cortes died in battle, they probably do worse than sacrifice him if he was taken alive.

 

[Sarufiyyun]

Honestly it would be hilarious to have Cortes live the remainder of his days as a prisoner of Montezuma.

 

[Alpha-King98760]

I wonder if the Aztec will develop a new form of punishment just for Cortés?

 

[I'tikaf]

1. I see the Mexicas are gonna be very powerful with the Spaniards gears.
2. It's gonna be very useful to gain information from their POWs.
3. my best guess with what would happen is either the plague or betrayal from the inside.

This was good,but I still hope you keep the Mesoamerican keeps their culture, clothing, and religion, just reform the religion, but nonetheless good work, and good luck with this.

I feel it's unrealistic and a tad bit untrue to think that the adoption of Christianity or for that matter any religion involves the obliteration of ones' native identity. Sure maybe a drastic alteration but not necessarily an obliteration of native culture. That being said it would be more interesting to see native religious movements form in opposition or in response to Christianity than the relegation of pre-Columbian belief systems to the status of folk religion. I doubt that no ethnic or cultural group would adopt Christianity though even so but syncretistic religious movements would be interesting as well.

 

[Red Angel]

I feel it's unrealistic and a tad bit untrue to think that the adoption of Christianity or for that matter any religion involves the obliteration of ones' native identity. Sure maybe a drastic alteration but not necessarily an obliteration of native culture. That being said it would be more interesting to see native religious movements form in opposition or in response to Christianity than the relegation of pre-Columbian belief systems to the status of folk religion. I doubt that no ethnic or cultural group would adopt Christianity though even so but syncretistic religious movements would be interesting as well.

I just hope Christianity don't get a foothold (or at least not a strong presence) in what would/would've become New Spain/Mexico, I can see the natives resisting the missionaries and other Europeans either 'peacefully' or by force and neither would make the natives like them... especially because of Cortes and the Spaniards

 

[Grammar Kaiser]

I wonder if the Aztec will develop a new form of punishment just for Cortés?

Priest: Guys we can't sacrifice him; he's unworthy.

Soldier: What else are we supposed to do?

Priest: I don't know. But he ain't gonna be sacrificed. He ain't getting on that altar, and he ain't losing his heart!

Montezuma promptly pushes Cortez down the stairs.

Priest: great! Now we have to get his unworthy blood off the stairs.

 

[CountDVB]

I just hope Christianity don't get a foothold (or at least not a strong presence) in what would/would've become New Spain/Mexico, I can see the natives resisting the missionaries and other Europeans either 'peacefully' or by force and neither would make the natives like them... especially because of Cortes and the Spaniards

Ehh it depends. Christianity did become popular for a reason. I suspect that rather than Catholicism, it'd be a form of Protestant Chrisitanity that would become present there, maybe something like the Quakers. Alternately, we'd get the Nahuatl equivalent of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_Church

That or it would be a syncretic phenomenon and we'd end up with something resembling New Orlreans/Louisiana Voodoo

 

[Denliner]

If a reformed Nahuatl religions survives (I'm still partial to the Mexica converting to Catholicism, but I guess there's some arguments why the Aztecs might reform their native religion to assert their independence against the European powers), then it obviously cannot stay the same with the decline of the native population and the influx of new ideas from the Old World. Human sacrifices are going to be untenable for its poor reputation and because there's very few people to go around in a few decades or so.

Bloodletting might be a more palatable alternative to human sacrifice, but I'm going to suggest something wild for this reformed Nahuatl religion: what if there was a Mexica Jesus Christ and was inspired by the historical figure to sacrifice himself to the gods as a final plea to save their world from the foreigners or disease? It could lead towards transubstantiation being an actual thing in the Nahuatl religion, with chocolate being the representation of human blood for Huitzilopochtli.

 

[Azure07]

If a reformed Nahuatl religions survives (I'm still partial to the Mexica converting to Catholicism, but I guess there's some arguments why the Aztecs might reform their native religion to assert their independence against the European powers), then it obviously cannot stay the same with the decline of the native population and the influx of new ideas from the Old World. Human sacrifices are going to be untenable for its poor reputation and because there's very few people to go around in a few decades or so.

Bloodletting might be a more palatable alternative to human sacrifice, but I'm going to suggest something wild for this reformed Nahuatl religion: what if there was a Mexica Jesus Christ and was inspired by the historical figure to sacrifice himself to the gods as a final plea to save their world from the foreigners or disease? It could lead towards transubstantiation being an actual thing in the Nahuatl religion, with chocolate being the representation of human blood for Huitzilopochtli.

Something creative like that would be more entertaining , also would the europeans REALLY shut off trade and thus the chances of acquiring gold and new world goods easily purely because they adhere to paganism? the bad blood between the two wouldn't be as entrenched as Islam vs Christianity (at least on the old world side, aztecs will definitely despise them for what they tried and have trouble differentiating one invader from another). Catholics back then have known to be pragmatic with their faith like outright warring against the pope or continuing slavery despite papal attempts to lessen its hold - or the time spaniards threatened to kill and enslave the Incas while calling out the name of God (1513 requirement). Its true that christianity became dominant in those lands for a reason but it wasn't passively.

 

[generalurist]

Aztec TL ?
Followed curious at how much a Spain screw the TL will be

If Spain is deprived of looted mesoamerican gold, their power will be much reduced compared to OTL in the next few centuries. In the long run, maybe they'll try to rebase their economy to industry rather than plunder?

oof, that was a bloody battle. But the Aztecs have learned the danger of a tercio-esque formation early, so hopefully they can develop tactics to counter it in the future.

I am very curious how Aztec religiosity develops- one reason I prefer the Inca to the Aztecs is because I am not at all a fan of Aztec human sacrifice practices.

With how badly the Europeans got crushed, do they even manage to send messengers back of their mess?