"If Hitler invaded Hell," he once remarked, "I would at least make a favourable reference to the Devil in the House of Commons."
He failed to follow up with a warning that making a pact with the Devil would cost you your soul (or half of Europe) ...
The Forge of Weyland
- Thread starter Astrodragon
- Start date
He failed to follow up with a warning that making a pact with the Devil would cost you your soul (or half of Europe) ...
He forgot the old saying that "He who sups with the Devil should have a long spoon".
yes but he was being nice to FDR so did not mention it.
On other side. Whole Europe was already lost in summer 1941. So he gained half back.
19 May 1940 2
19th May 1940
In the area west of Dinant, the French Army continues a slow advance to the Meuse. While the infantry advance is only a mile or so, aided by an artillery barrage, most progress is made against the 8th Infantry Division. Here 1DCR is pushing forward, and despite the aid of their own artillery, and a local counterattack by 5th Panzer Division, by the end of the day the German infantry have been pushed back to the western outskirts of the town of Dinant. An attack on the advancing tanks by the Luftwaffe did succeed in slowing the advance, and stopping the French tanks from overrunning the defenders, but it has only postponed the progress, not stopped it.
A decision is made that evening by the German High Command to withdraw the defending forces back behind the line of the Meuse, allowing a solid defence there to be set up. Given the disparity in heavy tanks, it is clear that there is little chance of 5th Panzer actually stopping 1DCR, especially now the French have got their artillery support in order. They are quite confident that they can hold the river line for the immediate future, allowing them to concentrate an attack on other areas of the front.
Around Sedan both sides continue to prepare fortifications, both new field fortifications and, where possible, repairing and reusing the pre-war defences. The German Infantry now have more artillery support now that the logistics behind them are a better, and for the moment the French are happy with stabilising the situation.
The main French effort over the next few days will be further north. The German salient to the west of the river needs to be pinched out, and the Meuse defence line re-established. The Germans actually have an advantage in infantry, although this will soon be removed as Touchon's Corp moves up in support. There is also an advantage in armour; 1DCR and 4DCR are available, and with their control of the earlier battlefield, some of the damaged or disables French tanks have been repaired, and others are on their way back to the repair shops. They have also received some replacement tanks. The retreating panzer divisions are notable by their absence, although 2nd Panzer has made some minor attacks to assist the infantry defence.
The Germans have to some extent consolidated their panzer force; 6th and 8th Panzer have been used to reinforce 1st, 2nd and 10th Panzer Divisions. The intention is to pull 1st Panzer out and send it north, while 6th and 8th Panzer are rebuilt with replacement tanks. While Guderian thinks that he has a good chance of cutting up the French armoured divisions one by one, there is worry at High Command that if this fails the panzer force will be decimated, and the French could punch through and over the Meuse. Guderian has been forbidden to get involved in anything other that local counterattacks, and after his earlier actions, High Command is keeping a close eye on him.
The French only have limited intelligence on what is following up the initial German attack, as despite a better effort the French Air Force is not managing to delivery the level of detailed reconnaissance they need. While it looks possible, if the two DCR's are deployed aggressively, to actually drive through the German force and over the Meuse, they are worried about more panzers waiting for them, as it is obvious that by the time they get to the Meuse the Germans will have been able to replace their earlier losses from their tank reserve. A more cautious approach has been determined, with the main objective in the next few days to re-establish the Meuse defensive line.
1DLM is recovering from its earlier battles, the disabled tanks being repaired, and they have also received some replacement tanks, bringing them up to about 80% of their establishment. Given the uncertaincy of German forces in the salient, they are being held as the armoured reserve, being considerably more mobile than a DCR, and trained for this role.
The British IV Corps is going to be sent north in a day or so, as there is currently no mobile armoured reserve there. 1st Armoured has mended all the tanks it can, and more are being worked on in the rear. It will be brought back up to full strength from the reserves once it moves back north. 5th Infantry Division is currently the reserve for the thrust at Dinant. More French divisions are on the way, and as soon as it can be relieved it will go back north to rejoin 1st Armoured.
The British are currently engaged in moving two more infantry divisions and an armoured brigade to France. Full deployment will take about a week, and once complete this force will form V Corps. It will be allocated as a reserve, allowing the rest of 7th Army's mobile force to be brought back together, and held a bit further south to act as 1st Army's reserve. The Allied High Command is worried about the northern part of the Dyle defensive line; RAF reconnaissance and intelligence reports indicate that there is a buildup of forces opposite the Antwerp area, and nothing seems to be happening in Holland, which could mean more divisions are available. While there are Belgian forces defending the city, they are static, and vulnerable to a panzer assault of the sort that nearly broke through north of Sedan. The British armour is seen as the counter to this, and once this is place a better allocation of forces and reserves can be made for the front as a whole.
In the area west of Dinant, the French Army continues a slow advance to the Meuse. While the infantry advance is only a mile or so, aided by an artillery barrage, most progress is made against the 8th Infantry Division. Here 1DCR is pushing forward, and despite the aid of their own artillery, and a local counterattack by 5th Panzer Division, by the end of the day the German infantry have been pushed back to the western outskirts of the town of Dinant. An attack on the advancing tanks by the Luftwaffe did succeed in slowing the advance, and stopping the French tanks from overrunning the defenders, but it has only postponed the progress, not stopped it.
A decision is made that evening by the German High Command to withdraw the defending forces back behind the line of the Meuse, allowing a solid defence there to be set up. Given the disparity in heavy tanks, it is clear that there is little chance of 5th Panzer actually stopping 1DCR, especially now the French have got their artillery support in order. They are quite confident that they can hold the river line for the immediate future, allowing them to concentrate an attack on other areas of the front.
Around Sedan both sides continue to prepare fortifications, both new field fortifications and, where possible, repairing and reusing the pre-war defences. The German Infantry now have more artillery support now that the logistics behind them are a better, and for the moment the French are happy with stabilising the situation.
The main French effort over the next few days will be further north. The German salient to the west of the river needs to be pinched out, and the Meuse defence line re-established. The Germans actually have an advantage in infantry, although this will soon be removed as Touchon's Corp moves up in support. There is also an advantage in armour; 1DCR and 4DCR are available, and with their control of the earlier battlefield, some of the damaged or disables French tanks have been repaired, and others are on their way back to the repair shops. They have also received some replacement tanks. The retreating panzer divisions are notable by their absence, although 2nd Panzer has made some minor attacks to assist the infantry defence.
The Germans have to some extent consolidated their panzer force; 6th and 8th Panzer have been used to reinforce 1st, 2nd and 10th Panzer Divisions. The intention is to pull 1st Panzer out and send it north, while 6th and 8th Panzer are rebuilt with replacement tanks. While Guderian thinks that he has a good chance of cutting up the French armoured divisions one by one, there is worry at High Command that if this fails the panzer force will be decimated, and the French could punch through and over the Meuse. Guderian has been forbidden to get involved in anything other that local counterattacks, and after his earlier actions, High Command is keeping a close eye on him.
The French only have limited intelligence on what is following up the initial German attack, as despite a better effort the French Air Force is not managing to delivery the level of detailed reconnaissance they need. While it looks possible, if the two DCR's are deployed aggressively, to actually drive through the German force and over the Meuse, they are worried about more panzers waiting for them, as it is obvious that by the time they get to the Meuse the Germans will have been able to replace their earlier losses from their tank reserve. A more cautious approach has been determined, with the main objective in the next few days to re-establish the Meuse defensive line.
1DLM is recovering from its earlier battles, the disabled tanks being repaired, and they have also received some replacement tanks, bringing them up to about 80% of their establishment. Given the uncertaincy of German forces in the salient, they are being held as the armoured reserve, being considerably more mobile than a DCR, and trained for this role.
The British IV Corps is going to be sent north in a day or so, as there is currently no mobile armoured reserve there. 1st Armoured has mended all the tanks it can, and more are being worked on in the rear. It will be brought back up to full strength from the reserves once it moves back north. 5th Infantry Division is currently the reserve for the thrust at Dinant. More French divisions are on the way, and as soon as it can be relieved it will go back north to rejoin 1st Armoured.
The British are currently engaged in moving two more infantry divisions and an armoured brigade to France. Full deployment will take about a week, and once complete this force will form V Corps. It will be allocated as a reserve, allowing the rest of 7th Army's mobile force to be brought back together, and held a bit further south to act as 1st Army's reserve. The Allied High Command is worried about the northern part of the Dyle defensive line; RAF reconnaissance and intelligence reports indicate that there is a buildup of forces opposite the Antwerp area, and nothing seems to be happening in Holland, which could mean more divisions are available. While there are Belgian forces defending the city, they are static, and vulnerable to a panzer assault of the sort that nearly broke through north of Sedan. The British armour is seen as the counter to this, and once this is place a better allocation of forces and reserves can be made for the front as a whole.
A note on how I intend to take this story.
AllanCameron has noted in 'Sir John Cardine Lives' that he will be telling his story in a 'narrow but deep' way, concentrating on how the new tanks have affected OTL.
My POD is different; the new tanks here are a consequence of the POD, rather than being the POD. So I will be doing the opposite; going 'broad but less deep', as the main changes are the tactics and opportunities caused by them, while covering a broader range of the war.
Yes, you'll still get your tank porn, but it isn't the only thing
AllanCameron has noted in 'Sir John Cardine Lives' that he will be telling his story in a 'narrow but deep' way, concentrating on how the new tanks have affected OTL.
My POD is different; the new tanks here are a consequence of the POD, rather than being the POD. So I will be doing the opposite; going 'broad but less deep', as the main changes are the tactics and opportunities caused by them, while covering a broader range of the war.
Yes, you'll still get your tank porn, but it isn't the only thing
A note on how I intend to take this story.
AllanCameron has noted in 'Sir John Cardine Lives' that he will be telling his story in a 'narrow but deep' way, concentrating on how the new tanks have affected OTL.
My POD is different; the new tanks here are a consequence of the POD, rather than being the POD. So I will be doing the opposite; going 'broad but less deep', as the main changes are the tactics and opportunities caused by them, while covering a broader range of the war.
Yes, you'll still get your tank porn, but it isn't the only thing
Sounds good to me.
Great new chapter.
I have one little nitpick - You say the German high command is worried about the panzer divisions being “decimated”. That word literally means to be reduced by one-tenth. I think given what has already occurred they’d be worried about the panzer divisions they have left being “destroyed”.
While your technically correct, decimated has commonly been used in this way.
I don't think the Romans had a word for 'lost half the tanks' !
While your technically correct, decimated has commonly been used in this way.
I don't think the Romans had a word for 'lost half the tanks' !
Not technically, just correct. It’s commonly used in that way and shouldn’t be. Ok I’ll calm down now. Keep up the great work.
Oh, its how I considered it
I do modify small things as I get some information I didn't know about, but I have planned out the full story in advance (obviously only the next few months in detail, of course).
I do modify small things as I get some information I didn't know about, but I have planned out the full story in advance (obviously only the next few months in detail, of course).
While your technically correct, decimated has commonly been used in this way.
I don't think the Romans had a word for 'lost half the tanks' !
Of course they did
Quintili Vare, legiones redde!
Oxford Dictionary
Meaning of words shift over time. Decimate does not necessarily refer to one tenth anymore, in spite of its origin in Latin. There are certainly a lot of words whose meaning has deviated significantly from its root.
Brilliant update! I love the logic of the French approaching the Meuse salient cautiously so as to ensure they don't get accidentally incircled by German Armour.
And re: Future POD Format - Fantastic! That sounds wonderful too.
Keep up the great writing Astrodragon....this is an epic story that I'm truly looking forward to following to its conclusion.
And re: Future POD Format - Fantastic! That sounds wonderful too.
Keep up the great writing Astrodragon....this is an epic story that I'm truly looking forward to following to its conclusion.
Of course, if the French actually realised the damage they did to the panzers, a rapid, pushed attack would have had much better results!
But they don't realise, and after the scare they are being cautious. Probably over-cautious, but that's how things usually work out.
But they don't realise, and after the scare they are being cautious. Probably over-cautious, but that's how things usually work out.
So the equivalent rant from Hitler now is ?
Guderian, Mein Panzerkmpfwagens gib mir Zurück?
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