Thus ends the Second American Revolution, for better or for worse.
Well done, comrades.
Well done, comrades.
The Fire Never Dies: Labor's Star Ascendant
- Thread starter Meshakhad
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Now that I think about it, if he was still alive the Reds would have had him surrender. I'm actually going to edit that chapter.
No. He had no legitimate claim to be the chief executive. But he effectively controlled the military and security forces (once he had Pershing assassinated).
100. Europe's Reaction
…We, the Workers of America, in order to defend our rights and livelihoods, ensure equality among all our peoples, secure our common prosperity, and advance the cause of workers around the world, do hereby establish this Constitution for the American Socialist Union…
- Preamble to the ASU Constitution
…No one was surprised by the fall of Washington. By autumn, the betting had long been over when the Whites would fall, not if. But the end of hostilities was nonetheless seen – rightly – as a turning point. A Colossus had fallen, replaced by another. The fact that Debs did not even try to engineer his accession to the Presidency was a clear sign that this Red America would be wholly different from the old US of A…
…While a few hardliners called for the world to intervene in America, as we did in Russia, the will to do so was not there. The cost of an American intervention would have rivalled the Great War itself. Had Lloyd George tried to push it through, his party would have thrown him out before he brought down the government. But if we were resigned to the existence of a Red America, that did not mean we should accept it. There was a considerable movement in favor of not recognizing the GDC as the legitimate American government. If Red America was kept diplomatically and commercially isolated, it would hopefully collapse, or at the very least be stunted and unable to wield influence abroad. I must confess that I was initially inclined towards this proposal…
…The anti-recognition movement faltered on two great rocks. The first was the spectacular failure of the Americans who had fled the Revolution to establish a government in exile. The last US ambassador to London, Walter Page, had passed away just after his nation did[1], but his colleague in Paris, Ambassador William Sharp, had gained the support of much of the American foreign service, declaring himself President in exile. Unfortunately, he was challenged by Mr. Nicholas Longworth[2], a junior Congressman from Ohio who had managed to escape the continent. He proclaimed that as he was the only Congressman known to have escaped, he should be recognized as Speaker of the House, and therefore successor to the Presidency. The fact that Sharp was a Democrat while Longworth was a Republican contributed to their feuding…
…The second rock was that we had already failed to isolate the GDC. After the fall of Washington, Germany had announced it would recognize the GDC. Austria-Hungary, Bulgaria, the Ottoman Empire, and Germany’s collection of puppet states in Eastern Europe followed. Those who argued in favor of recognition pointed out that continued hostility towards America would push it towards an alliance with Germany. It was for this reason that I ultimately spoke in favor of recognition, which the government did ultimately do after the Reds ratified their new constitution and proclaimed the American Socialist Union…
…Our mistake, in retrospect, was in assuming that a simple act of Parliament would settle the matter. It did not. Those who had opposed recognition were hardened anti-socialists. Many of their names – Baron Garvagh[3], General Fuller[4], William Joyce[5] – would go on to infamy. We – and I surely include myself in this – became so fixated on the threat from across the Atlantic that we ignored the threat at home…
- From The Enemy Was In Our House: How We Surrendered Britain To Falangism by Winston Churchill
[1] IOTL, Page resigned in October 1918 after falling ill. He returned to the United States and died on December 21. ITTL, Page remains in London, and lives a little longer, dying on January 2, 1919.
[2] IOTL, Longworth went on to serve as Speaker of the House from 1925 to 1931.
[3] IOTL, Baron Garvagh (born Leopold Ernest Strafford George Canning) was the co-founder of the British Fascist.
[4] IOTL, General J.F.C. Fuller was a prominent early theorist of armored warfare. He was also a member of the British Union of Fascists.
[5] IOTL, Joyce was a member of the British Union of Fascists. He became a broadcaster of Nazi propaganda during World War II and was the last person to be executed for treason in the United Kingdom.
- Preamble to the ASU Constitution
…No one was surprised by the fall of Washington. By autumn, the betting had long been over when the Whites would fall, not if. But the end of hostilities was nonetheless seen – rightly – as a turning point. A Colossus had fallen, replaced by another. The fact that Debs did not even try to engineer his accession to the Presidency was a clear sign that this Red America would be wholly different from the old US of A…
…While a few hardliners called for the world to intervene in America, as we did in Russia, the will to do so was not there. The cost of an American intervention would have rivalled the Great War itself. Had Lloyd George tried to push it through, his party would have thrown him out before he brought down the government. But if we were resigned to the existence of a Red America, that did not mean we should accept it. There was a considerable movement in favor of not recognizing the GDC as the legitimate American government. If Red America was kept diplomatically and commercially isolated, it would hopefully collapse, or at the very least be stunted and unable to wield influence abroad. I must confess that I was initially inclined towards this proposal…
…The anti-recognition movement faltered on two great rocks. The first was the spectacular failure of the Americans who had fled the Revolution to establish a government in exile. The last US ambassador to London, Walter Page, had passed away just after his nation did[1], but his colleague in Paris, Ambassador William Sharp, had gained the support of much of the American foreign service, declaring himself President in exile. Unfortunately, he was challenged by Mr. Nicholas Longworth[2], a junior Congressman from Ohio who had managed to escape the continent. He proclaimed that as he was the only Congressman known to have escaped, he should be recognized as Speaker of the House, and therefore successor to the Presidency. The fact that Sharp was a Democrat while Longworth was a Republican contributed to their feuding…
…The second rock was that we had already failed to isolate the GDC. After the fall of Washington, Germany had announced it would recognize the GDC. Austria-Hungary, Bulgaria, the Ottoman Empire, and Germany’s collection of puppet states in Eastern Europe followed. Those who argued in favor of recognition pointed out that continued hostility towards America would push it towards an alliance with Germany. It was for this reason that I ultimately spoke in favor of recognition, which the government did ultimately do after the Reds ratified their new constitution and proclaimed the American Socialist Union…
…Our mistake, in retrospect, was in assuming that a simple act of Parliament would settle the matter. It did not. Those who had opposed recognition were hardened anti-socialists. Many of their names – Baron Garvagh[3], General Fuller[4], William Joyce[5] – would go on to infamy. We – and I surely include myself in this – became so fixated on the threat from across the Atlantic that we ignored the threat at home…
- From The Enemy Was In Our House: How We Surrendered Britain To Falangism by Winston Churchill
[1] IOTL, Page resigned in October 1918 after falling ill. He returned to the United States and died on December 21. ITTL, Page remains in London, and lives a little longer, dying on January 2, 1919.
[2] IOTL, Longworth went on to serve as Speaker of the House from 1925 to 1931.
[3] IOTL, Baron Garvagh (born Leopold Ernest Strafford George Canning) was the co-founder of the British Fascist.
[4] IOTL, General J.F.C. Fuller was a prominent early theorist of armored warfare. He was also a member of the British Union of Fascists.
[5] IOTL, Joyce was a member of the British Union of Fascists. He became a broadcaster of Nazi propaganda during World War II and was the last person to be executed for treason in the United Kingdom.
In case anyone was thinking this would be a matter of slapping a few amendments on and calling it done....
And yes, any Republicans left overseas not going all in on the Anti-Wilson recrimination over wrecking the U.S. will be the ones heading back to the ASU.
Why does this sound like it was not a transitory interlude?
Well that doesn't seem good for Ireland. I wonder who else is heading down the alt Fascist road.
I haven't decided who ends up leading Falangist Britain (or what that actually looks like), except that Oswald Mosely will NOT be in charge (because he's the obvious choice). I have him pegged as the British Goebbels.
This was before the 1947 Presidential Succession Act that reintroduced the SpeKee of the House and President pro tempore of the Senate to the presidential line of succession.
This would only work if Sharp was Wilson's Secretary of State.
Oh I was refering to other countries like France, Italy, and Spain.
Ig. You would think that any surviving members of the cabinet would flee and try to set up a constitutional exile government.
I'm pretty sure there are no members of cabinet that successfuly escaped. So a bunch of lesser White political figures fighting for a literal sunken ship I think makes sense here.
The new Socialist constitution has a good opening. Hope we get to see the rest of it.
The two randos trying to proclaim themselves president was hilarious.
Socialist America leads to a fascist England! It does make sense that a revolution in America would lead to a drastic change in our (now former) allies but it's still sad to see.
The two randos trying to proclaim themselves president was hilarious.
Socialist America leads to a fascist England! It does make sense that a revolution in America would lead to a drastic change in our (now former) allies but it's still sad to see.
ITTL, Congress passed a new succession act in 1918 that added the Speaker and President pro tempore.
He has no legitimacy. Everyone who is actually in the line of succession is either dead or in Red hands. The argument of both governments-in-exile is that anyone in Red custody is incapable of carrying out their duties.
Spain will be Falangist. Others will be revealed in time...
Churchill had many flaws, but he firmly rejected fascism, even allying with the Soviet Union against the Nazis. I thought having him as a source was more interesting, especially as he considers himself responsible.
Exactly. Had Lansing not died of influenza, he would have been the obvious focal point for the government-in-exile.
We won't cover everything, but there will be a lot of excerpts. The next several posts will cover the Convention.
The best way I could come up with to avoid a government-in-exile was to have more than one.
Fascist Britain seems a bit underused outside of Nazi victory scenarios.
I imagine that France, and White Russia, is also going to go far-right crazy of their own forms. I heard/from what I understand that in France reactionaries were the more dominant far-right strand in France during this period of time so France may go some form of reactionary regime if they end up going far-right.
White Russia is going to be especially fucking crazy I imagine in their reaction with their revanchism for Eastern Europe, Tsarist Russia already having plenty of crazy fanatically religious, far right people (and the Whites in general from what I understand had plenty of crazy in their leaders) and the impact of a near revolution.
(Also man ITTL Russia is really going to be the quintessential example of how a failed revolution brings forth fascism/reaction in the early 20th century.)
White Russia is going to be especially fucking crazy I imagine in their reaction with their revanchism for Eastern Europe, Tsarist Russia already having plenty of crazy fanatically religious, far right people (and the Whites in general from what I understand had plenty of crazy in their leaders) and the impact of a near revolution.
(Also man ITTL Russia is really going to be the quintessential example of how a failed revolution brings forth fascism/reaction in the early 20th century.)
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No point in denying it, really. In terms of atrocities, the Russians will be the ones who most resemble the OTL Nazis (although we won't be getting a Holocaust).
I am interested where Churchill is writing this from? Scandinavia? Switzerland?
Post regime-change Britain is quite possible. Somewhere in the ASU of course would be good for Maximized Irony.