The Anglo/American - Nazi War - The on-going mystery

Of course he wouldn't be infallible. Don't think I implied otherwise. What I was responding to was "would he have restarted the Hot War?". IMO no.

Hitler and Goebbels were operating from an utterly demented perspective that took their own Propaganda/Myth and turned it into personal perceptions of Reality (reminder to all: do not start and current event comparisons here). Heydrich did not share that reality. He was actually far more brutal and cruel than any of the top tier Nazis, including Himmler, but also, from all accounts, had his feet on the ground.

I think Heydrich is like Laventiy Beria: a man who had the combination of pragmatism and a wretched personality.

Heydrich was a dead-behind-the-eyes sociopath, and Beria was a rapist serial killer who made Ted Bundy look both merciful. But both men could support rational ideas, if only because they were useful in keeping power.

But it is important to remember that in an ideolgical society, pragmatism is not always a good thing.

Beria didn't just offend others with his horrible actions and fiendish personality. His support for reforms offended the ideologues. And when one thing went wrong, in this case the East German uprising, the Soviet leadership had their excuse to shoot him.

Even if Heydrich pursued a "rational" policy, he would still have ideological opponents. And once he slipped up, like the arrogant bastard he was, the knives would be pointed in his direction.

I'm not sure. By the time the Reich's economy really starts to collapse he may be dead or overthrown. If not we are looking at a 1970s era USSR. The Soviets were able to keep kicking the can down the road for almost 20 years as things got progressively worse for the WP countries and then the non-Great Russian parts of the USSR, and finally even into Moscow (toward the end in the USSR women, who were the primary shoppers, and some men, never left the house without a couple folded up string bags. If they saw a queue forming near a shop they would automatically join it, not because they necessarily needed what the shop sold, but because they might be able to by something, anything, to barter with later.). IOTL the Soviets always kept the specter of War on the table whenever they needed something (U.S. grain was a regular item of interest, U.S. would sell it at massive discounts, partly to prop up U.S. farmers, but also to keep the wolf from Moscow's door lest the Kremlin decide to go and get what they needed behind a wave of T-62 and T-72s.) The Reich could do the same thing, at least for a while.

The USSR blackmailed America into giving them grain? Wow!

But I think Germany would be in worse shape than the USSR, simply because Germany has FAR less resources than the USSR did within its borders. If Germany lost control of its satelites, its economy would collapse even harder.

The USSR problem was inefficiency and mismanagment, but it has successfully reformed its economy, it would be able to reform its economy. In Nazi Germany, there would be an even more severe resource shortfall.

Speer would be interesting. For one thing he was anything but an inspiring or dominating leader. Technocrat to the core, very practical, as one would expect given his professional training. I rather dount he would last long atop the viper's nest that was National Socialism. Himmler would likely have him "die in his sleep" inside a month, might take Gobbles two months. Heydrich would probably just shoot him between the eyes over a beer. Charlie the Tuna in a tank with a Great White.

It would be a mistake to underestimate Speer.

I think Speer's ability to avoid a death sentence with his masterful performance at Nuremburg proved he was an incredibly emotionally intelligent man. In politics, emotional intelligence is a valuable asset.

I bet he could rally the pragmatic forces of Nazi Germany to keep himself in power. The man may have been a technocrat, but he had to negotiate the Nazi hierarchy to get what he wanted. No man who was a pushover could do that.

I picture him being
 
I wish I had the skill to make one, but that would be a good idea
I would say that I think that market is thoroughly saturated. But there may be a niche for "HOI4 Nazi Victory mods, but the Nazis don't gut themselves via apocalyptic civil war before anyone else has a chance to finish them off"
 
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The reason why socipaths often rise to power in an autocratic society is that their willingness to shed blood in order to feed their egos. But this is also a weakness, because they seek to stamp out opposition by any means.

I doubt Heydrich's rule over the Reich rule over Europe would be smooth sailing, because his own sociopathic tendencies could've tripped him up.
Could other bigwigs meet to remove such a dangerous individual, especially if he starts to "bastardize the pure National Socialism which was left by Hitler to us"?
I bet he could rally the pragmatic forces of Nazi Germany to keep himself in power. The man may have been a technocrat, but he had to negotiate the Nazi hierarchy to get what he wanted. No man who was a pushover could do that.
And what about foreign relationships? OTL, he was smart enough to get less than Streicher in Nuremberg; could he try to be himself "the reliable and non-crazy leader", like Deng and MAo?
 
I would say that I think that market is thoroughly saturated. But there may be a niche for "HOI4 Nazi Victory mods, but the Nazis don't gut themselves via apocalyptic civil war before anyone else has a chance to finish them off"
There would be some major changes from this mod from the other ones, the allies still exist and are basically worldwide, the Wehrmacht has been almost completely replaced by the SS and the nazis are in fact prospering, and not collapsing like in TNO or TWR. There could be the standart route, launch the raid, cause WWIII, attempt to win it, or maybe you can have Goebbels Jr to survive and keep stuff going as normal until hitler dies and have a bunch of difference hitler sucessors, all developed under the eyes of Calbear for the player to follow.
 
Could other bigwigs meet to remove such a dangerous individual, especially if he starts to "bastardize the pure National Socialism which was left by Hitler to us"?

Yes.

Heydrich is smart, but he's still a human being.
And what about foreign relationships? OTL, he was smart enough to get less than Streicher in Nuremberg; could he try to be himself "the reliable and non-crazy leader", like Deng and MAo?

Certainly.

He wasn't so devoted to Nazism, that he would carry out the Nero Decree.
 
There would be some major changes from this mod from the other ones, the allies still exist and are basically worldwide, the Wehrmacht has been almost completely replaced by the SS and the nazis are in fact prospering, and not collapsing like in TNO or TWR. There could be the standart route, launch the raid, cause WWIII, attempt to win it, or maybe you can have Goebbels Jr to survive and keep stuff going as normal until hitler dies and have a bunch of difference hitler sucessors, all developed under the eyes of Calbear for the player to follow.
idk, I think dealing with the HOI4 reddit community (to say nothing of the cultural wasteland that is the discord community) would give ol' ursus califonius an aneurysm.
 
idk, I think dealing with the HOI4 reddit community (to say nothing of the cultural wasteland that is the discord community) would give ol' ursus califonius an aneurysm.
*Flashbacks of Kaiserreich and TNO reddit shitstorms*

Oh the blood from the ban hammer would fill the med by the time the mod actually came out.
 
idk, I think dealing with the HOI4 reddit community (to say nothing of the cultural wasteland that is the discord community) would give ol' ursus califonius an aneurysm.
*Flashbacks of Kaiserreich and TNO reddit shitstorms*

Oh the blood from the ban hammer would fill the med by the time the mod actually came out.

This would be up to the administration team, Calbear would be the lore master.

The only problem I could see would be random people showing from time to time here posting how the game is nothing like the TL. The mod could increase the sales of his book to be honest.
 
One thing that has absolutely no mention in the TL as far as I know is what happened to Eva Braun? Did Hitler ever marry her? Did she kill herself once Hitler died?

Besides that why didn’t Hitler ever have any children?
 
IOTL right before they killed themselves. I’m asking if Hitler ever married Eva Braun in AANW.
Its unlikely as Hitler always insisted marriage was out because he couldn't be that normal and the "Leader." Or that was his excuse at any rate. In any case they were sleeping together for many years (proving if Hitler did only have one ball it probably worked well enough for that) but either he used protection or was firing blanks as no child resulted OTL. As she's 33 and he's 56 even by her OTL death if he hasn't fathered a child by then its getting a little bit late anyway, certainly by the early 50's when she's 40 and he's 60+ it would be to late.

I'd assume (until Calbear weighs in) that if the relationship lasted until his stroke she was probably ordered to play along on pain of pain. At that point she likely vanishes from history although if any child was born and found I think we can assume it would be kicked to death as Satan's spawn by any allied soldier.

Sadly ITTL the idea Hitler was born evil will probably be even more prevalent and many will want to eradicate the bloodline completely even if its hardly junior's fault who Daddy was.
 
Its unlikely as Hitler always insisted marriage was out because he couldn't be that normal and the "Leader." Or that was his excuse at any rate. In any case they were sleeping together for many years (proving if Hitler did only have one ball it probably worked well enough for that) but either he used protection or was firing blanks as no child resulted OTL. As she's 33 and he's 56 even by her OTL death if he hasn't fathered a child by then its getting a little bit late anyway, certainly by the early 50's when she's 40 and he's 60+ it would be to late.

I'd assume (until Calbear weighs in) that if the relationship lasted until his stroke she was probably ordered to play along on pain of pain. At that point she likely vanishes from history although if any child was born and found I think we can assume it would be kicked to death as Satan's spawn by any allied soldier.

It would be an awesome speculative idea that could easily become the realm of ITTL puply science fiction: Hitler having an evil son who wishes to bring about the Third Reich.

Sadly ITTL the idea Hitler was born evil will probably be even more prevalent and many will want to eradicate the bloodline completely even if its hardly junior's fault who Daddy was.

The "going back in time and killing Hitler" question might definitely be more of a realm of revenge fantasy, more than it is a moral and philsophical thought experiment. OTL Come and See makes the argument that killing baby Hitler would not really solve anything, and just makes as you as evil as the Nazis who razed your village. TTL war movies will make Hitler into the ultimate target, which isn't too hard considering his viciously angry tirades.

More dangerously, people TTL will automatically assume life would've been better had he not been born, or at least given a scholarship to art school.

Would life have been better? Paris might still exist obviously, and there could still be synagogues in Poland. But then again, the only reason why our ideas on international cooperation and human rights exist is BECAUSE a man like him showed how all those things are important.
 
It would be an awesome speculative idea that could easily become the realm of ITTL puply science fiction: Hitler having an evil son who wishes to bring about the Third Reich.
Fourth Reich and I expect that (much like OTL after awareness of the camps spread) using Hitler himself as entertainment is just not done for decades after the war.
 
Would life have been better? Paris might still exist obviously, and there could still be synagogues in Poland. But then again, the only reason why our ideas on international cooperation and human rights exist is BECAUSE a man like him showed how all those things are important.
In TTL the cost of life just to be reminded that fact is far too high. OTL is already pretty egregious enough and I would argue it's tens of millions of lives too many. Here, people literally witness entire ethnic groups being nearly wiped out through mechanized euthanasia and cities be turned into uninhabitable wastelands thanks to the insanity of the Nazis.

In my opinion, people would not be debating this question in the slightest. Any possible future that removes Hitler is better than the hell that was unleashed upon their world.
 
Fourth Reich and I expect that (much like OTL after awareness of the camps spread) using Hitler himself as entertainment is just not done for decades after the war.

The Brooksian idea of making Hitler into a clown would be seen as an incredibly offensive and monstrous idea?

In TTL the cost of life just to be reminded that fact is far too high. OTL is already pretty egregious enough and I would argue it's tens of millions of lives too many. Here, people literally witness entire ethnic groups being nearly wiped out through mechanized euthanasia and cities be turned into uninhabitable wastelands thanks to the insanity of the Nazis.

In my opinion, people would not be debating this question in the slightest. Any possible future that removes Hitler is better than the hell that was unleashed upon their world.

Even after OTL Kristallnacht, nobody felt bad enough to let Jews into their country.

It wasn't until that evil threatened global security that people gave a damn.

The thing about people is that they will ignore anything that doesn't affect them.

Until Hitler violated human rights in a big way, nobody realized how important they were.
 
Here a fun question

Would the insane 2000s nazi crazy documentaries pop up on this timeline?

I found this video about these, oh the memories!
 
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