Bookmark1995
Banned
And the sad thing: it WORKS!
As recently as 1990, you have Jesse Helms winning on a platform like that, and people who still call him a dedicated public servant.
The Anglo/American - Nazi War - The on-going mystery
- Thread starter CalBear
- Start date
And the sad thing: it WORKS!
As recently as 1990, you have Jesse Helms winning on a platform like that, and people who still call him a dedicated public servant.
As recently?
Populism’s rise in the last few years basically has that as its central argument.
But we’re in current politics territory. Suffice to say, the lie still wins.
How different would AANW have been if Reinhard Heydrich was never killed in 1942 like IOTL?
Bookmark1995
Banned
Worse.
The man was definitely a psychopath who's downfall came about because of his staggering arrogance.
His twisted little brain could've cooked up some pretty twisted schemes.
Writing from OTL 2021 Prague as I am, I've had... interesting conversations with my ESL students about Anthropoid, if it was worth it, and even if the Czechs should have resisted in '38. The general consensus is: it was our biggest thing in the war and it was awesome; you could look at it either way (reneging the Munich Agreement vs. Lidice and Lezaky); maybe, but it wasn't worth losing Prague like the Poles lost Warsaw.
Heydrich had the infortunate combinaison of being both Nazi and competent. If the attack fails, I sure wouldn't want to live in the Protectorate.
Bookmark1995
Banned
But would Heydrich be crazy enough to try and attack America unprovoked?
That's the bigger question.
Personally, I don't think so. As the other person you quoted said, Heydrich was a Nazi... and an intelligent one as well. He was also pragmatic (picking Muller to run the Gestapo all though he hated Nazis in the past, for example). Probably not going to bomb New York unless he thought he could somehow win or at least get away with it.
Bookmark1995
Banned
So if he found himself in control of Germany by the 1950s, he would more or less content to continue the colonization of Eastern Europe and the plundering of the rest of Europe?
Probably. Of course, we're giving the man (and his regime) a decade more of life in this hypothetical, who knows what could happen. He could have a crisis of conscience like one plotline in TNO and shoot himself for all we know.
CalBear stated that in AANW only Himmler (who envisioned a future war with Asia and wanted Aryans to rule the world) and Goebbels (who stated IOTL that American Jews would get what’s coming to them one day) wanted to expand while the rest of the Nazi leadership were content to rule and plunder Europe.
I haven’t read too much on Heydrich but I’d say if he was alive ITTL he’d be content with Europe and wouldn’t want to fight the WAllies again (even if for the pragmatic reason that the Reich would lose). He may have been a fanatic but he wasn’t delusional.
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thanks as someone form the North of Ireland/Northern Ireland its definitely more nationalist vs unionist that religion
in fact most people here aren't really religious its just that most unionist are protestant and most nationalist are catholic that's why its gets seen as a religious conflict when it isn't really
but yeah its very complex topic with so many different reason which would take so long to explain lol
and yeah it still a super sensitive topic here and still affects are day to day life
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IMO Heydrich would have been satisfied with sucking Europe dry. There would undoubtedly been some pushing around the edges of what made up the "Nazi Empire" along the margins (further into the Middle East/ SW Asia, Turkey, etc.), probably some of the same sort of gamemanship that marked the West/East Cold War to try to extract concessions/better trade deals with the rest of the world, but actually deciding to restart an existential war seems very unlikely.
Heydrich was a true sociopath, and a very intelligent one. As such he didn't care about other people, but he did have a strong survival instinct and a marked absence of delusions of grandeur. Pretty much the mirror of Hitler.
Bookmark1995
Banned
He was definitely a dangerous man, but remember this: he drove around through the Czech lands in an open top car. He was so arrogant and grandiose, he willingly drove through the lands where he was despised.
Heydrich was definitely a smart guy, but I don't believe he would infallible as a ruler.
Sociopaths as a whole are defined by their desire to dominate and control other people. But I consider this to be both a strength and a liability.
The reason why socipaths often rise to power in an autocratic society is that their willingness to shed blood in order to feed their egos. But this is also a weakness, because they seek to stamp out opposition by any means.
I doubt Heydrich's rule over the Reich rule over Europe would be smooth sailing, because his own sociopathic tendencies could've tripped him up.
Of course he wouldn't be infallible. Don't think I implied otherwise. What I was responding to was "would he have restarted the Hot War?". IMO no.
Hitler and Goebbels were operating from an utterly demented perspective that took their own Propaganda/Myth and turned it into personal perceptions of Reality (reminder to all: do not start and current event comparisons here). Heydrich did not share that reality. He was actually far more brutal and cruel than any of the top tier Nazis, including Himmler, but also, from all accounts, had his feet on the ground.
Two questions
After Heydrich sucks europe dry, he's starting the war with the west, right?
Second, What about Speer? What would he do in your views, if he took power?
I'm not sure. By the time the Reich's economy really starts to collapse he may be dead or overthrown. If not we are looking at a 1970s era USSR. The Soviets were able to keep kicking the can down the road for almost 20 years as things got progressively worse for the WP countries and then the non-Great Russian parts of the USSR, and finally even into Moscow (toward the end in the USSR women, who were the primary shoppers, and some men, never left the house without a couple folded up string bags. If they saw a queue forming near a shop they would automatically join it, not because they necessarily needed what the shop sold, but because they might be able to by something, anything, to barter with later.). IOTL the Soviets always kept the specter of War on the table whenever they needed something (U.S. grain was a regular item of interest, U.S. would sell it at massive discounts, partly to prop up U.S. farmers, but also to keep the wolf from Moscow's door lest the Kremlin decide to go and get what they needed behind a wave of T-62 and T-72s.) The Reich could do the same thing, at least for a while.
Speer would be interesting. For one thing he was anything but an inspiring or dominating leader. Technocrat to the core, very practical, as one would expect given his professional training. I rather dount he would last long atop the viper's nest that was National Socialism. Himmler would likely have him "die in his sleep" inside a month, might take Gobbles two months. Heydrich would probably just shoot him between the eyes over a beer. Charlie the Tuna in a tank with a Great White.
Would you like if the Anglo American Nazi War had a Hearts of Iron 4 mod?