Either being in good health during their term, who would you prefer for the 1851 Pennsylvania seat?

  • David Wilmot (Whig)

    Votes: 2 66.7%
  • John Sergeant (Whig)

    Votes: 1 33.3%

  • Total voters
    3
  • Poll closed .
A retrospective: Pennsylvania in the Federal Legislature
Senate (1788-1891)

Class I
1789: William Maclay (Anti-Administration)
1791: Arthur St. Clair (Pro-Administration)
1797: James Ross (Federalist)
1803: William Maclay (Democratic-Republican)
1809: Joseph Hemphill (Federalist)
1815: Isaac Wayne (Federalist)*
1821: John Sergeant (Federalist)
1827: Thomas Sergeant (Jacksonian)
1833: Richard Rush (Anti-Masonic)**
1839: Thaddeus Stevens (Anti-Masonic and/or Whig)
1845: John Sergeant (Whig)
1851: John Sergeant (Whig)***
1857: Simon Cameron (Republican)
1863: Simon Cameron (Republican)****
1869: John Scott (Republican)
1875: John Allison (Republican)
1881: John I. Mitchell (Republican)
1887:Matthew Quay (Republican)

Class III
1789: Robert Morris (Pro-Administration)
1795: William Bingham (Pro-Administration)
1801: Samuel Maclay (Anti-Administration)
1807: Andrew Gregg (Anti-Administration)
1813: Isaac Weaver (Democratic-Republican)
1819: Isaac Weaver (Democratic-Republican)
1825: John Sergeant (Federalist)
1831: Harmar Denny (Anti-Masonic)
1837: Thomas M. T. McKennan (Whig)
1843: J. R. Ingersoll (Whig)
1849: Thaddeus Stevens (Free Soil)
1855: Edward Joy Morris (Republican)
1861: Edgar Cowan (Republican)
1867: Simon Cameron (Republican)
1873: Simon Cameron (Republican)
1879: J. Donald Cameron (Republican)*****
1885: J. Donald Cameron (Republican)
1891: J. Donald Cameron (Republican)
1st Congress (Pro-Administration: 8)
  1. Frederick Muhlenberg (Pro-Administration)
  2. Henry Wynkoop (PA)
  3. Thomas Hartley (PA)
  4. George Clymer (PA)
  5. Thomas Fitzsimmons (PA)
  6. Thomas Scott (PA)
  7. John Allison (PA)
  8. Stephen Chambers (PA)
2nd Congress (Pro-Administration: 6) (Anti-Administration: 2)
  1. Thomas Fitzsimons (Pro-Administration)
  2. Frederick A. Muhlenberg (Anti-Administration)
  3. Israel Jacobs (PA)
  4. Daniel Hiester (AA)
  5. John W. Kittera (PA)
  6. John Allison (PA)
  7. Thomas Hartley (PA)
  8. John Woods (PA)
3rd Congress (Pro-Administration: 9) (Anti-Administration: 4)
  1. John W. Kittera (Pro-Administration)
  2. Thomas Hartley (PA)
  3. Thomas Fitzsimmons (PA)
  4. James Armstrong (PA)
  5. Thomas Scott (PA)
  6. Samuel Sitgreaves (PA)
  7. William Bingham (PA)
  8. Henry Wynkoop (PA)
  9. Israel Jacobs (PA)
  10. Frederick Muhlenberg (Anti-Administration)
  11. Peter Muhlenberg (AA)
  12. Jonathan D. Sergeant (AA)
  13. Andrew Gregg (AA)
4th Congress (Federalist: 11) (Democratic-Republican: 2)
  1. Thomas Fitzsimons (Federalist)
  2. Samuel Miles (F)
  3. Richard Thomas (F)
  4. Samuel Sitgreaves (F)
    1. Peter Muhlenberg (Democratic-Republican)
  5. George Ege (F)
  6. John Carson (F)
  7. John W. Kittera (F)
  8. Thomas Hartley (F)
  9. James Wallace (F)
  10. James Chambers (F)
  11. William Findley (DR)
  12. Thomas Scott (F)
5th Congress (Federalist: 13)
  1. Edward Tilgham (F)
  2. Robert Waln (F)
  3. Richard Thomas (F)
  4. Samuel Sitgreaves (F)
    1. John Chapman (F)
  5. George Ege (F)
  6. John Carson (F)
  7. John W. Kittera (F)
  8. Thomas Hartley (F)
  9. James Wallace (F)
  10. William M. Brown (F)
  11. James Findley (F)
  12. John Woods (F)
6th Congress (Federalist: 13)
  1. Robert Waln (F)
  2. Anthony Morris (F)
  3. Richard Thomas (F)
  4. John Chapman (F)
    1. Anthony Morris (F)
  5. Daniel Clymer (F)
  6. Daniel Smith (F)
  7. John W. Kittera (F)
  8. Thomas Hartley (F)
  9. James Armstrong (F)
  10. Henry Woods (F)
  11. William Todd (F)
  12. John Woods (F)
7th Congress (Federalist: 12) (Democratic-Republican: 1)
  1. Francis Gurney (F)
  2. John Lardner (F)
  3. Joseph Hemphill (F)
  4. Cadwallader C. Evans (F)
    1. John Arndt (F)
  5. Roswell Wells (F)
  6. Samuel Maclay (F)
  7. Thomas Boude (F)
  8. John Eddie (F)
  9. David Mitchell (F)
  10. Henry Woods (F)
  11. John Smilie (Democratic-Republican)
  12. Presley Neville (F)
8th Congress
  1. George Latimer (F)
    1. Peter Brown (F)
    2. Jonas Preston (F)
  2. Samuel Sitgreaves (F)
    1. Nathaniel Borleau (F)
    2. Lord Butler (F)
  3. Jacob Bowler (F)
    1. Joseph Hemphill (F)
    2. Thomas Boude (F)
  4. John A. Hanna (Democratic-Republican)
    1. David Bard (DR)
  5. Andrew Gregg (DR)
  6. John Edie (F)
  7. Henry Woods (F)
  8. William Findley (F)
  9. John Smilie (DR)
  10. William Hoge (DR)
  11. John Wilkins (F)
9th Congress
  1. Richard Falwell (F)
    1. Jonas Preston (F)
    2. (DR)
  2. John Ross (Quid)
    1. Samuel Preston (Q)
    2. (DR)
  3. Thomas Boude (F)
    1. Isaac Wayne (F)
    2. (DR)
  4. (DR)
    1. (DR)
  5. Andrew Gregg (DR)
  6. James Kelly (F)
  7. John Rea (DR)
  8. John Brandon (F)
  9. John Smilie (DR)
  10. John Israel (F)
  11. James O’Hara (F)
10th Congress (Quid: 12) (Democratic-Republican: 5) (Federalist: 3)
  1. John Sergeant (Quid)
    1. Charles W. Hare (Federalist)
    2. Joseph Hemphill (F)
  2. William Milnor (Q)
    1. Frederick Conrad (Q)
    2. William Latimore (Q)
  3. John Hiester (Q)
    1. Matthias Richards (Q)
    2. Robert Jenkins (Q)
  4. Robert Whitehill (Democratic-Republican)
    1. David Bard (DR)
    2. Evers Doty (DR)
  5. Andrew Gregg (Q)
  6. James Kelly (Q)
  7. Henry Woods (Q)
  8. William Findley (DR)
  9. John Smilie (DR)
  10. John Hamilton (Q)
  11. John Wilkins (Q)
11th Congress (Federalist: 10) (Quid: 8)
  1. Joseph Hemphill (Federalist)
    1. Derick Peterson (F)
    2. Charles W. Hare (F)
  2. John Ross (Quid)
    1. William Milnor (Q)
    2. Roswell Wells (Q)
  3. Matthias Richards (Q)
    1. Daniel Hiester (Q)
    2. Robert Jenkins (Q)
  4. John Gloninger (F)
    1. William Alexander (F)
  5. John Bull (F)
  6. James Kelly (F)
  7. Andrew Dunlap (F)
  8. William Findley (Q)
  9. Thomas Meason (F)
  10. John Hamilton (Q)
  11. Alexander Foster (F)
12th Congress (Federalist: 11) (Democratic-Republican: 7)
  1. James Milnor (Federalist)
    1. Thomas Truxton (F)
    2. Thomas Dick (F)
  2. William Milnor (F)
    1. Levi Paulding (F)
    2. Charles Miner (F)
  3. Daniel Hiester (F)
    1. Samuel Bethel (F)
    2. Mark J. Biddle (F)
  4. David Bard (Democratic-Republican)
    1. Robert Whitehill (DR)
  5. George Smith (DR)
  6. David Cassat (F)
  7. John Rea (DR)
  8. William Findley (DR)
  9. John Smilie (DR)
  10. Thomas L. Birch (F)
  11. (DR)
13th Congress (Federalist: 23)
  1. Joseph Hopkinson (Federalist)
    1. Joseph S. Lewis (F)
    2. Samuel Harvey (F)
    3. William Pennock (F)
  2. Samuel Henderson (F)
    1. Francis Gardner (F)
  3. John Gloninger (F)
    1. Amos Slaymaker (F)
  4. Jacob Eichelberger (F)
  5. Edward Crawford (F)
    1. James Duncan (F)
  6. William Rodman (F)
    1. Samuel Sitgreaves (F)
  7. Daniel Rose (F)
  8. Samuel Riddle (F)
  9. John Blair (F)
  10. Nathan Beach (F)
    1. Enoch Smith (F)
  11. Thomas Pollock (F)
  12. Joseph Pentecost (F)
  13. Thomas Meason (F)
  14. John Woods (F)
  15. Roger Alden (F)
14th Congress (Federalist: 19) (Democratic-Republican: 4)
  1. John Sergeant (Federalist)
    1. Joseph Hopkinson (F)
    2. William Milnor (F)
    3. Thomas Smith (F)
  2. Isaac Wayne (F)
    1. Samuel Henderson (F)
  3. Amos Slaymaker (F)
    1. Samuel Rex (F)
  4. Hugh Glasgow (Democratic-Republican)
  5. Edward Crawford (F)
    1. Alexander Cobean (F)
  6. William Rodman (F)
    1. Samuel Sitgreaves (F)
  7. Joseph Hiester (DR)
  8. John Anderson (F)
  9. John Blair (F)
  10. John Boyd (F)
    1. (DR)
  11. James Brady (F)
  12. Obadiah Jennings (F)
  13. Isaac Griffin (DR)
  14. John Woods (F)
  15. Epaphroditus Cossitt (F)
15th Congress (Federalist: 16) (Democratic-Republican: 7)
  1. John Sergeant (Federalist)
    1. Joseph Hopkinson (F)
    2. William Milnor (F)
    3. Samuel Edwards (F)
  2. Levi Pawling (F)
    1. Isaac Darlington (F)
  3. Amos Slaymaker (F)
    1. James M. Wallace (Democratic-Republican)
  4. Jacob Hay (F)
  5. James McSherry (F)
    1. John McClelland (F)
  6. John Ross (DR)
    1. Samuel D. Ingham (DR)
  7. Joseph Hiester (DR)
  8. Alexander Ogle (DR)
  9. James A. Banks (F)
  10. William Buyers (F)
    1. Roswell Wells (F)
  11. George Armstrong (F)
  12. John Hughes (F)
  13. (DR)
  14. (DR)
  15. William Clark (F)
16th Congress (Federalist: 13) (Democratic-Republican: 10)
  1. John Sergeant (Federalist)
    1. Joseph Hemphill (F)
    2. Samuel Edwards (F)
    3. Thomas Forrest (F)
  2. Levi Pawling (F)
    1. James Kelton (F)
  3. James Montgomery (F)
    1. John Whiteside (F)
  4. Jacob Hostetter (Democratic-Republican)
  5. Alexander Cobean (F)
    1. John P. Helfenstein (F)
  6. Samuel Moore (DR)
    1. Thomas J. Rogers (DR)
  7. Joseph Hiester (DR)
  8. John A. Bard (F)
  9. William P. Maclay (DR)
  10. John Murray (DR)
    1. George Denison (DR)
  11. James Kelly (F)
  12. Joseph Pentecost (F)
  13. (DR)
  14. (DR)
  15. Robert Moore (DR)
17th Congress (Federalist: 21) (Democratic-Republican: 2)
  1. John Sergeant (Federalist)
    1. Joseph Hemphill (F)
    2. William Milnor (F)
    3. Samuel Edwards (F)
  2. Charles Miner (F)
    1. John Henderson (F)
  3. James Buchanan (F)
    1. John Phillips (F)
  4. Jacob Hostetter (F)
  5. James Wilson (F)
    1. Isaiah Graham (F)
  6. Daniel W. Dingman (F)
    1. Matthais Morris (F)
  7. Ludwig Worman (F)
  8. Robert Philson (F)
  9. William P. Maclay (Democratic-Republican)
  10. Abiel Fellows (F)
    1. (DR)
  11. Alexander W. Foster (F)
  12. Thomas McGiffen (F)
  13. Charles Porter (F)
  14. William Marks (F)
  15. Robert Moore (F)
18th Congress
  1. Samuel Breck (Adams-Clay Federalist)
  2. Joseph Hemphill (Jackson Federalist)
  3. Thomas Forrest (F)
  4. James Buchanan (JF)
    1. Isaac Wayne (JF)
    2. Samuel Edwards (JF)
  5. John Hughes (F)
  6. John Phillips (Democratic-Republican)
  7. Ludwig Worman (F)
    1. Peter Rhoads (F)
  8. Samuel Sitgreaves (F)
    1. Francs B. Shaw (F)
  9. William Cox Ellis (JF)
    1. (D
    2. (D
  10. James S. Mitchell (Jackson Democratic-Republican)
  11. James McSherry (F)
    1. William N. Irvine (F)
  12. John Brown (JDR)
  13. John Tod (JDR)
  14. (D
  15. (D
  16. (D
    1. (D
  17. (D
  18. (D
19th Congress
  1. (Jacksonian)
  2. (
  3. Stephen Duncan (Federalist)
  4. Charles Miner (Anti-Jacksonian)
    1. James Buchanan (J)
    2. (
  5. Philip S. Markley (AJ)
  6. Christian Gleim (F)
  7. George Keck (F)
    1. (
  8. Samuel D. Ingham (J)
    1. George Wolf (J)
  9. (
    1. (
    2. (
  10. James S. Mitchell (J)
  11. James Wilson (AJ)
    1. John Findlay (J)
  12. Robert Allison (Democratic-Republican-old school)
  13. Alexander Thomson (J)
  14. Andrew Stewart (J)
  15. Joseph Lawrence (AJ)
  16. (
    1. (
  17. Jonathan H. Wise (F)
  18. (
20th Congress
  1. Samuel Breck (Anti-Jacksonian)
  2. John Sergeant (AJ)
  3. (
  4. Samuel Anderson (AJ)
    1. Charles Miner (AJ)
    2. James Buchanan (Jacksonian)
  5. Philip S. Markley (AJ)
  6. (
  7. (
    1. (
  8. George Wolf (J)
    1. Samuel D. Ingham (J)
  9. Samuel McKean (J)
    1. Espy Van Horne (J)
    2. George Kremer (J)
  10. (
  11. James Wilson (AJ)
    1. (
  12. Robert Allison (Anti-Masonic)
  13. (
  14. Andrew Stewart (AJ)
  15. Joseph Lawrence (AJ)
  16. Robert Orr Jr. (J)
    1. James S. Stevenson (J)
  17. (J)
  18. Thomas H. Sill (AJ)

21st Congress (Anti-Jacksonian: 24) (Anti-Masonic: 1) (Jacksonian: 1)
  1. Peter A. Browne (Anti-Jacksonian)
  2. John Sergeant(AJ)
  3. Samuel Harvey (AJ)
  4. Samuel Anderson (AJ)
    1. Townsend Haines (AJ)
    2. William Hiester (AJ)
  5. Joseph Royer (AJ)
  6. Valentine Hummel (AJ)
  7. Henry King (AJ)
    1. William Addams (AJ)
  8. James M. Porter (AJ)
    1. Thomas G. Kennedy (AJ)
  9. John Murray (AJ)
    1. Chauncey Alford(AJ)
    2. George M. Hollenback (AJ)
  10. William McIlvine (AJ)
  11. James Wilson (AJ)
    1. George Chambers (AJ)
  12. William P. Maclay (AJ)
  13. William Piper (AJ)
  14. Andrew Stewart (AJ)
  15. Joseph Lawrence (AJ)
  16. Robert Moore (AJ)
    1. William Wilkins (Anti-Masonic)
  17. Richard Coulter (Jacksonian)
  18. Thomas H. Sill (AJ)
22nd Congress
  1. John Sergeant (Anti-Jacksonian)
  2. Daniel W. Coxe (AJ)
  3. John G. Watmough (AJ)
  4. Samuel Edwards (Federalist)
    1. (Anti-Masonic)
    2. (AM)
  5. John Freedly (AM)
  6. Valentine Hummel (AJ)
  7. John Bentenman (AM)
    1. Walter C. Livingston (AM)
  8. James M. Porter (AJ)
    1. Stephen Brock (AJ)
  9. John Burrows (AJ)
    1. George Walker (AJ)
    2. (Jacksonian)
  10. William McIlvine (AJ)
  11. Jacob Alter (AM)
    1. Robert Smith (AM)
  12. Robert Allison (AM)
  13. George Burd (AJ)
  14. Andrew Stewart (AM)
  15. Thomas M. T. McKennan (AM)
  16. Harmar Denny (AM)
    1. Walter Forward (AM)
  17. Thomas Pollock (AM)
  18. John Banks (AJ)
23rd Congress
  1. James Gowen (Anti-Jacksonian)
  2. Horace Binney (AJ)
    1. James Harper (AJ)
  3. John G. Watmough (AJ)
  4. William Hiester (Anti-Masonic)
    1. David Potts Jr. (AM)
    2. Edward Darlington (AM)
  5. Benjamin Reiff (AM)
  6. Mathias Morris (AJ)
  7. Peter Ihrie Jr. (AM)
  8. William Audenreid (AM)
  9. David Hollenstein (AM)
  10. William Clark (AM)
  11. Charles A. Barnitz (AM)
  12. George Chmabers (AM)
  13. Thomas Whiteside (AM)
  14. James Milliken (AM)
  15. Thomas W. Miner (AM/AJ)
  16. Ner Middleswarth (AM)
  17. Simon Kinney (AM)
  18. David Mann (AM)
  19. Richard Coulter (Jacksonian)
  20. Andrew Stewart (AM)
  21. Thomas M. T. McKennan (AM)
  22. Harmar Denny (AM)
  23. William Ayers (AM)
  24. John Banks (AM)
  25. Thomas H. Sill (AM)
24th Congress
  1. James Gowen (Anti-Jacksonian)
  2. Joseph R. Ingersoll (AJ)
    1. James Harper (AJ)
  3. John G. Watmough (AJ)
  4. William Hiester (Anti-Masonic)
    1. David Potts Jr. (AM)
    2. Edward Darlington (AM)
  5. James Royer (Unknown)
  6. Mathias Morris (AJ)
  7. Alexander E. Brown (U)
  8. Walter C. Livingston (U)
  9. Stanly Kirby (U)
  10. William Clark (AM)
  11. Charles A. Barnitz (AM)
  12. George Chambers (AM)
  13. Thomas Whiteside (AM)
  14. James Milliken (AM)
  15. Charles D. Shoemaker (U)
  16. Samuel J. Packer (U)
  17. Horace Williston (U)
  18. Charles Ogle (AM)
  19. Richard Coulter (Jacksonian)
  20. Andrew Stewart (AM)
  21. Thomas M. T. McKennan (AM)
  22. Harmar Denny (AM)
  23. Samuel S. Harrison (Jacksonian)
  24. John Banks (AM)
  25. Thomas H. Sill (AM)
25th Congress
  1. Joel B. Sutherland (Whig)
  2. John Sergeant (W)
    1. George W. Toland (W)
  3. Charles Naylor (W)
  4. David Potts Jr. (Anti-Masonic)
    1. Edward Darlington (AM)
    2. Edward Davies (AM)
  5. Daniel M. Mulvaney (AM)
  6. Mathias Morris (W)
  7. Jacob Weygandt (W)
  8. William Audenried (AM)
  9. Henry W. Smith (W)
  10. George W. Harris (W)
  11. Jacob Kirk (W)
  12. G. James McSherry (AM)
  13. William Sharon (W)
  14. John Williamson (AM)
  15. John McReynolds (W)
  16. Ebenezer Greenough (A) (not specified)
  17. William Jessup (W)
  18. Charles Ogle (AM)
  19. James Moorhead (W)
  20. Andrew Buchanan (Democratic)
  21. Thomas M. T. McKennan (AM)
  22. Richard Biddle (AM)
  23. Joseph Buffington (W)
  24. Thomas Henry (AM)
  25. David Dick (W)
26th Congress
  1. Joel B. Sutherland (Whig)
  2. John Sergeant (W)
    1. George W. Toland (W)
  3. Charles Naylor (W)
  4. John Edwards (Anti-Masonic)
    1. Edward Davies (AM)
    2. Francis James (AM)
  5. Joseph Royer (W)
  6. Mathias Morris (W)
  7. Peter S. Michler (W)
  8. Walter C. Livingston (W)
  9. Daniel M. Bieber (W)
  10. William Simonton (W)
  11. Charles A. Barnitz (W)
  12. James Cooper (W)
  13. Frederick Watts (W)
  14. William Irvin (W)
  15. David Hurley (W)
  16. James Morrill (W)
  17. William Willard (W)
  18. Charles Ogle (AM)
  19. Joseph Markle (W)
  20. Fideleo Hughes (W)
  21. Joseph Lawrence (W)
  22. Richard Biddle (AM)
  23. George W. Smith (W)
  24. Thomas Henry (AM)
  25. David Dick (W)
34th Congress
  1. Edward Joy Morris (Whig)
  2. Joseph R. Chandler(Independent Whig)
  3. William Millward (W)
  4. John Lambert (W)
  5. Nathan A. Jones (W)
  6. John M. Broomall (W)
  7. Samuel C. Bradshaw (Republican)
  8. John C. Myers (W)
  9. Anthony E. Roberts(IW)
  10. John C. Kunkel (W)
  11. James H. Campbell (R)
  12. Henry Mills Fuller (W)
  13. Edward F. Stewart (W)
  14. Galusha A. Grow (Democratic)
37th Congress
  1. John M. Butler (Republican)
  2. Edward J. Morris (R)
  3. John P. Verree (R)
  4. William D. Kelley (R)
  5. William M. Davis (R)
  6. John Hickman (R)
  7. Thomas Corwin (R)
  8. Levi B. Smith (R)
  9. Thaddeus Stevens (R) (Unopposed)
  10. John W. Killinger (R)
  11. James H. Campbell (R)
  12. George W. Scranton (R)
  13. David K. Shoemaker (R)
  14. Galusha A. Grow (R)
  15. James Tracy Hale (R)
  16. Benjamin F. Junkin (R)
  17. Edward McPherson (R)
  18. Samuel S. Blair (R)
  19. John Covode (R)
  20. Andrew Stewart (R)
  21. James J. Moorhead (R)
  22. Robert McKnight (R)
  23. John W. Wallace (R)
  24. John Patton (R)
  25. Elijah Babbitt (R)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*: Not sure whether to go with Isaac Wayne or Jared Ingersoll. Isaac Wayne gets points for being governor and son of General"Mad" Anthony Wayne, himself the son of Isaac Wayne. While Ingersoll is the father of J. R. Ingersoll, Vice-Presidential candidate in 1812, and argued Chisholm v. Georgia and Hylton v. United States before the Supreme Court.

**: It's between Richard Rush and National Republican Garrick Mallery who was an ethnologist specializing in Native American sign language and pictographs. Seems interesting, though I'm not too aware of him, so I'm defaulting to Rush due to his alliance with Henry Clay.

***: IOTL, John Sergeant died in 1852. He seems like a pretty cool guy, and his support of the Second Bank + the campaign with Clay gives him extra points. Though the other candidate I had in mind is David Wilmot, so it's definitely up in the air for me, and I'm currently running a poll to help decide. So that it doesn't affect the voting, ITTL, if Sergeant is elected in 1851, he doesn't die until after the term is up (March 1857), and is in good enough health to actively participate in debate. Basically, it boils down to whether David Wilmot's character, personality, and policy preferences outweigh those of John Sergeant as well as the seniority the latter has, being an incumbent.

****: Once again, David Wilmot is in the finals, though I'm currently favoring Cameron due to the fact that he ran later (and as such gains seniority), and the fact that he established a family dynasty (J. Donald Cameron). The other candidate here is William D. Kelley, a man so committed to protectionism, that he refused to wear a single imported item.

*****: This is Simon Cameron's son, and I picked him due to both his victories IOTL as well as the fact that it would continue his father's political legacy. The other option I had in mind is former Speaker Galusha A. Grow, as a way to reward his service.
 
Last edited:
A retrospective: the Presidential Elections
Presidential elections (1788-1868)
(Candidates are in descending order of electoral votes won [only those who achieved votes are counted)

1788
John Adams/George Washington (Federalist/Independent) (unopposed)

1792
John Adams/George Washington (Federalist/Independent) (unopposed)

1796
John Adams/Charles Cotesworth Pinckney (Federalist) vs Samuel Adams/Aaron Burr (Democratic-Republican)

1800
John Adams/Charles Cotesworth Pinckney (Federalist) vs Aaron Burr/Thomas Jefferson (Democratic-Republican)

1804
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney/Rufus King (Federalist) vs Thomas Jefferson/William Maclay (Democratic-Republican)

1808
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney/Rufus King (Federalist) vs James Madison/John Quincy Adams (Soft Federalist)

1812
Rufus King/John Marshall (Federalist) vs James Madison/John Langdon (Soft Federalist/Democratic-Republican)

1816
Rufus King/John Marshall (Federalist) vs Henry Clay/Andrew Jackson (Democratic-Republican)

1820
John Quincy Adams/Richard Rush (Soft Federalist/Federalist) (unopposed)

1824
John Quincy Adams/Henry Clay (Soft Federalist/Democratic-Republican) [Alliance for both: Adams-Clay Republican] (unopposed)

1828
John Quincy Adams/Richard Rush (National Republican) (unopposed)

1832
John Quincy Adams/Richard Rush (National Republican) vs Martin Van Buren/Richard Mentor Johnson (Democratic)

1836
Daniel Webster/Francis Granger (Whig) vs Martin Van Buren/Richard Mentor Johnson (Democratic)

1840
Henry Clay/Daniel Webster (Whig) vs Martin Van Buren/Richard Mentor Johnson (Democratic)

1844
Henry Clay/John Sergeant (Whig) vs Martin Van Buren/Richard Mentor Johnson (Democratic)

1848
Henry Clay/Daniel Webster (Whig) vs Martin Van Buren (Democratic/Free Soil)/Jefferson Davis (D)/Charles Francis Adams Sr. (FS)

1852
Daniel Webster (W/FS/Union/Native American)/Edward Bates (W)/George Washington Julian (FS)/Charles J. Jenkins (U)/George Corbin Washington (NA) vs Sam Houston/Jefferson Davis (Democratic)

1856
John C. Fremont*/Abraham Lincoln (Republican) vs Stephen A. Douglas/Benjamin F. Butler (Democratic) vs Sam Houston/Henry J. Gardiner (American) [Alliance: Whig]

1860
Abraham Lincoln/Sam Houston (Republican) vs Sam Houston/Edward Everett (Constitutional Union/Whig/People's) vs Stephen A. Douglas/Joseph Lane (Democratic)

1864
Hiram Ulysses Grant/Benjamin F. Butler (National Union) vs George B. McClellan/John S. Phelps (Democratic)

1868
Hiram Ulysses Grant/ (Republican) vs John Q. Adams/? (Democratic)

1872
Hiram Ulysses Grant/ (Republican Union) vs Charles Francis Adams/? (Liberal Republican)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the first two elections, the Federalist/Independent ticket of Adams and Washington was in effect unopposed, a situation that would also occur in 1820, 1824, and 1828. (This means that the 1828 election as we know it, and Andrew Jackson's conflict with Adams and Clay don’t occur, especially as Jackson serves as Adam’s Secretary of War, and the election is more about [white] voting rights.) Following on this idea, the 1832 election is also cleaner since only the National Republicans/Anti-Masons (which ITTL don’t exist, or at least are founded on nativism rather than anti-Masonry) and Democrats contesting, rather than the National Republicans and Anti-Masons being split off/the Democrats and Nullifiers being split, as there's no need for them.

The "Soft Federalist" is because ITTL, James Madison isn't as close to Jefferson and so remains a Federalist, even if not as doctrinaire. Meanwhile, John Quincy Adams isn't expelled from the Senate nor the Federalist party, though he still has that independent streak, so he's also a "Soft Federalist". Think of it as a reverse DeWitt Clinton.

Also, there's a particular reason why I have the Adams', as well as Clay and Webster play such a big role in American political life, (and not just because I'm a huge fan of the four of them, though it certainly doesn't hurt). Basically, I wanted to set up a precedent for presidents to serve more than two terms, which will come in handy for our friend Grant. (After all, he was considered a potential presidential candidate in all five presidential elections from 1864 to 1880.) (Probably goes without saying that that's where the "Rule of the Radical Republicans" comes from in the title. A bit early to give the game away, but honestly, I'm just amazed that this TL got to 25 posts, let alone the 102 it's up to now (including this one)!

The * is because while I was looking at the 1856 election, I saw that the Wiki article said that John Brown had declined to be in the running for the presidential candidacy for the Republicans, and my God... I want to make John Brown president so damn badly! It's beautiful!!! Alas, I must content myself with Abraham Lincoln becoming Vice-President... and running against Benjamin Franklin Butler.

Though it may seem ASB to have the Democrats lose every election they run in (at least for now), ITTL, they're more of a regional party that's strong enough to nominate serious presidential tickets (and on a few occasions, even come close to winning). Based on this, the Democratic presidential tickets are more about messaging (more in some elections than others), to either reflect the leadership of the party (it's why Martin Van Buren has such a stranglehold on the party as well as the nomination of Houston and Davis to signify a clean break with Van Buren) or to show a unified message to voters across the country (the reason for Houston's nomination, due to his patriotism and war hero status).

In regards to 1848: Even though I've made my support of the Free Soil party quite clear, and I do like how Van Buren became more anti-slavery over time, I don't think it's enough for me to give him the presidency. Even though it's hard to do in-universe (since adding up the Free Soil votes to the Democratic votes IOTL leads to a Whig massacre), TTL's reasoning is that Webster's anti-slavery credentials are enough to blunt Van Buren on his left, while Clay plays the "Great Compromiser" card well enough to go to his right with less anti-slavery people, paired with an incumbency advantage, and it would be a squeaker IMO. In other words, Clay is a counter to Davis, while Webster is a counter to Adams.

The reason I have Jefferson Davis on the 1852 tickets even though I despise him is that I wanted this TL to include a bit of in-universe retrospection about how one of the two major parties in the US allowed a man who ended up committing treason to potentially be a heartbeat away from the presidency, that, and the irony of anti-slavery Van Buren sharing a ticket with Jefferson Davis of all people.

The 1856 election is a miracle Republican win (no two ways about it), where the American and Republicans agree to get out of each other's way, the Americans hoping to deadlock the election and bring it to the House while the Republicans seek to outright win it, knowing there's no way they'd win in the House. Through the strategic abstention from different state races, the Americans end up picking up support in the South, while the Republicans take enough states in the North to win with a comfortable margin. Additionally, anti-slavery forces allow Kansas to be admitted into the Union under a radical constitution in 1855 (as well as Utah and New Mexico being admitted in 1850 alongside California, as well as Hawaii being admitted in 1854), in time for the election. The Electoral College results in TTL is as follows: Republican (184)/Democratic (75)/American (52)

The 1860 election is still a mess, though the Constitutional Union party wins a lot more of the South because even though Houston was running for the Republican Vice-Presidency as well, he was able to successfully spin at "If I win the White House, we'll focus only on the Union. If Lincoln wins it, I'll make sure he focuses on that as well." ITTL, it's a risky gamble, but it pays off since Southerners are receptive to the idea of "having a man on the inside", particularly one as strong-willed as Sam Houston. (And especially since ITTL, the Democratic party is much less pro-slavery on a national level, and as such, Southerners are more willing to compromise on the ticket, though on a state-by-state level, they're itching to secede.)
ITTL, Douglas wins the original Democratic Convention's nomination (due to a simple majority rather than 2/3 rule), and as such, there is no Democratic split, with Douglas democrats from OTL going to the Constitutional Union ITTL, as Houston is seen as more accommodating to slavery than Douglas, even being on the Republican ticket. The Electoral College is as follows: Republican (195)/Constitutional Union/Whig (99)/Democratic (21)
The reason for Lincoln's increased performance is that New Jersey doesn't have a fusion ballot against him, and he wins Delaware thanks to having a fused ballot with Houston.

Basically, IOTL, this election was (apart from slavery) about keeping the Union together, and regardless of how many times Lincoln said he wanted to keep the Union together, and no matter how many times Breckinridge was lying through his teeth when he said he didn't want to secede, Douglas and Bell (as well as Houston) bought into the notion that Lincoln had to be stopped. In other words, slavery and an uneasy union were more important than letting the rightful candidate win. ITTL, though there is no official Democratic split, Douglas still does his best to drive support to the Constitutional Union, which allows them to win in areas where IOTL, the combined Northern Democrat and CU votes were enough to either beat the Southern Democrats or enough to put them within striking distance. (The reason Houston sides with Lincoln is because he detests Davis after having him as his running mate in 1852.)

As mentioned before, McClellan loses even worse ITTL, and as such he isn't renominated in 1868, the nomination rather going to John Q. Adams (grandson of John Quincy Adams) hoping to use the Adams name to help the Democratic electorally, particularly in the North, so as to prove that they're not against the changes made by the Republican party, especially since his father (Charles Francis Adams) was the Vice-Presidential candidate for the Free Soil party in 1948. (I still haven't decided on the Vice-Presidential candidates yet, and I'm down for suggestions, though I'll most likely keep Butler with Grant, so I'm more looking for a breakdown between Francis P. Blair, Augustus C. Dodge, Thomas Ewing, Jr, and John A. McClernand for McClellan.)

In regards to the 1872 election, the Liberal Republican split still occurs, though the split is much smaller, and as such the Republicans win in an even bigger blowout than IOTL. (I don't think it's too much of a spoiler to say that Ulysses S. Grant wins every state; becoming the second person to win 100% of the Electoral College votes.) The potential candidates for Vice-President are the following: Benjamin Gatz Brown, Lyman Trumbull, George Washington Julian, Gilbert Carlton Walker, Cassius Marcellus Clay, and Jacob Dolson Dox. I'm curious to hear thoughts on these men.
 
Last edited:
Apologize for the delay. My computer decided to give out on my a few weeks ago, and I don’t have anything else to write on. (Mobile formatting is weird.)

Also, I got Mass Effect last week and I’ve been putting hours upon hours on it, so it’s been occupying my time since my university’s gone on strike.

Taking this into account, I won’t be updating for the foreseeable future, though I’m more than happy (and would love) to answer questions since: 1) feels nice to have interest and engagement in regard to the TL and 2) I don’t want this thread to die. (Plus, I like hearing from y’all!)

Also, if anyone knows how to delete a poll, please let me know! Don’t know how to take down the poll, and I might do future ones (hope they have a higher turnout tho.)

Regarding the results, it was 2-1 in favor of Wilmot and against Sergeant. Taking the turnout and (numerical, if not proportional) closeness into account, I’ll leave the result unchanged for the foreseeable future (especially since I don’t dare alter that post on mobile).
 
Last edited:
Apologize for the delay. My computer decided to give out on my a few weeks ago, and I don’t have anything else to write on. (Mobile formatting is weird.)

Also, I got Mass Effect last week and I’ve been putting hours upon hours on it, so it’s been occupying my time since my university’s gone on strike.

Taking this into account, I won’t be updating for the foreseeable future, though I’m more than happy (and would love) to answer questions since: 1) feels nice to have interest and engagement in regard to the TL and 2) I don’t want this thread to die. (Plus, I like hearing from y’all!)

Also, if anyone knows how to delete a poll, please let me know! Don’t know how to take down the poll, and I might do future ones (hope they have a higher turnout tho.)

Regarding the results, it was 2-1 in favor of Wilmot and against Sergeant. Taking the turnout and (numerical, if not proportional) closeness into account, I’ll leave the result unchanged for the foreseeable future (especially since I don’t dare alter that post on mobile).
Is the thread on pause or not going to be updated anymore? Hope you continue with it, I like this TL.
 
Is the thread on pause or not going to be updated anymore? Hope you continue with it, I like this TL.
It’s paused in terms of updates, but I will be around to answer questions and even perhaps share a roadmap if people want it.

Odd as it may sound, posting here and hearing from you guys is honestly one of my favorite things to do on the internet, so this project won’t be done until we reach the present day, or natural disasters wipe us all out. Consider the pace we’re going at… I’m banking on the latter.
 
The 1856 election, or: How I finally figured out how to post maps
Frémont: 184
Douglas: 75
Houston: 52
2022-07-31 (2).png
 
Last edited:
Top