Thanks, everyone, for the warm welcome back
and for the responses to my two latest posts. It feels nice to be back in the saddle again, even after all this time away
Before I get to my replies, however, I want to take this opportunity to plug
my latest (and last!) guest post for
Eyes Turned Skyward, the space exploration timeline by
e of pi and
Workable Goblin, two long-time friends of and consultants for
That Wacky Redhead. That thread is in the midst of its final batch of updates, so if you'd like to be on the forefront of that, I'd suggest you check it out!
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Good to have you back, BB. Always knew this was a mammoth undertaking, and am happy to see it near conclusion, rather than fade away like so many other efforts out there.
One of the reasons I started this timeline in the first place was to practice my writing - and one of my weaknesses as a writer is never finishing what I start.
Just out of curiosity: Is Indira Gandhi still Prime Minister of India at this time? If so, is she still assassinated?
Well,
Indira Gandhi ran a whole big country; that isn't easy - even if you're a guy. (
Although in 1972 it would have been "runs", not "ran".)
But in all seriousness, I haven't focused nearly enough on India to give you an answer that would satisfy me. Tentatively I'll say no, she isn't still PM. Either she never got back into power in 1980, or she was successfully assassinated after having gotten back into power, as she was IOTL. Consider it a Schrodinger's Cat situation, if you like.
Welcome back Brainbin! I haven't given up, glad to see TWR back in action!
Glad to be back! And thanks for sticking around, I appreciate your tenacity
Glad to see this back again...
And glad to see you're still here, Orville, having been a part of this wacky adventure ever since Page One!
So, since there is still a Twilight Zone film, does Vic Morrow still die during the production of that film? Or does he not even star in it? Come to think of it, is it similar to the OTL film?
Yes. No. No. Yes. As covered in some detail in the update that followed your query
There's scope there for an episode of Neon City Vice where they track down a new drug smuggling ring only to find that they're actually just smuggling VTRs.
I'm glad you caught that implication! And you can definitely consider that canon. Even if the show itself doesn't do it, SCTV (produced in Canada, where VTRs are legal) will.
Did TRON (1982) and Wargames (1983) get made ITTL? If so, how they differed or not of OTL's version and how they fared?
Excellent question, and something I just might have to address in the movies update.
Glad to see this still going, though as we approach my date of birth, so too the end of the TL looms.
Amusingly enough (and this was
not planned) but I was conceived shortly before the end of this TL. I'm not sure if that has any significance
Thande said:
Does the VCR (or VTR) ban also apply to audio recordings or not? What about an audio-only recording of a TV show?
Superb question! I think that's going to fall into a grey area, and of course someone will take the matter to court - but it won't reach the Supremes until well after 1986, (un)fortunately
Glad to see this continuing.
Does The Day After exist TTL, or has it been butterflied away due to the failure of The China Syndrome?
The 1980s ITTL are not dominated by fears of a nuclear holocaust. Even nuclear power is much more widely accepted - and this has resulted in a schism in the environmentalist movement. Solar panel technology is more advanced ITTL thanks to work on the microwave power prototypes - but relatively speaking, nuclear reactors are
even more advanced (we'll get into that a bit in the next update), and all but the most hysterical anti-nuclear activists (who are generally considered loons) have a "fission or bust" approach to transitioning away from reliance on fossil fuels.
So does Neon City Vice set in San Andreas mean that in the future-beyond-the-scope-of-this-TL the Grand Theft Auto III spin-offs get different subtitles?
Fun fact: I was going to give San Andreas the nickname of Vice City, but (this being the 1980s) it was decided to go with something more colourful, and what's more colourful than neon?
(That was a rhetorical question, Thande )
I would like to see wikiboxes made about this TL!
I've already made quite a few! You should check the attachments page
Great to see another update, and interesting to see that certain types of show will turn up at certain times, even though the butterflies change the specifics - i.e. Neon City Vice. As the saying goes, you get railroads when its railroading time.
I like that expression, for more reasons than one! But yes, the prevailing trends in television seem to alternate with time. The 1950s, 1970s, 1990s, and 2010s are all "substance" decades, and the 1960s, 1980s, and 2000s are all "style" decades, and I suspect each shift is at least in part a reaction to the prevailing atmosphere that precedes it.
DaiKiwi said:
A couple of thoughts: Without Thatcher's Britain and without the Muppet Show being produced in the UK we will probably not see "Spitting Image", which was a HUGE phenomena in the UK (and Aus/NZ) for several years of its run. This will also have knock-on effects on satire, comedy and political commentary in the UK, and the careers of a few writers & comedians.
Including Chris Barrie! This is why I want to have him get into voice acting - we need to give him the chance to utilize those incredible talents of his!
DaiKiwi said:
There is an awful lot of very good writing in UK comics and TV which came from the bleakness of the 1980s. Still, good writers will always write and be published, they'll just write something different.
Creativity always tends to flourish in the face of adversity or struggle. I think it says something about the nature of human ingenuity.
More generally, without Thatcher's breaking of the political consensus, you probably won't see the rise of OTL's alternative comedy - Ben Elton, Rik Mayall, Not the Nine O'Clock News etc. The older, music hall inspired comedians will probably be more prominent in the early Eighties - in particular Mike Yarwood.
Good thing I'll be discussing British Telly in an upcoming post! Thanks for the input
Roddenberry's show might alter two other things. Hubbard's novel came out in 1982. Perhaps Hubbard might sue Roddenberry- or perhaps butterflies wiped Hubbard's book out.
Titles are one of the most easily butterflied aspects of any creative work, and such is the case with TTL's version of
Battlefield: Earth.
Orville_third said:
Second, it sounds a lot similar to another idea from around the same time. A guy named Kenneth Johnson wrote a miniseries adaptation of Sinclair Lewis's "It Can't Happen Here" in 1982. NBC rejected it as "too cerebral" (something Roddenberry would understand), but Johnson was able to rewrite it into a different work..."V". Perhaps Roddenberry and Johnson could get together?
Good eye - this is definitely intended to be TTL's version of "V". (I didn't say it in the post, but as far as I'm concerned,
It Can't Happen Here was adapted by Johnson as a straight miniseries.)
Orville_third said:
As for Neon City Vice, you have to cast Edward James Olmos as a hero. (Who knows? He might wind up with an Oscar for "Stand and Deliver".)
Yes, Olmos is involved with the series, as IOTL (though from the outset). I actually like him for the co-lead on
Neon City Vice, even though he was
Da Chief on
Miami Vice.
Here's one about the 1980 election. I'm not sure how to change the electoral map though.
Thank you for the infobox! For comparison,
here is the one I previously made covering that same election, and
here is the map to go with it.
Wow! I love it...and you worked in someone I like working into TLs! (The world's biggest fan of Zatanna...)
Thanks, Orville! Yes, Paul Dini was one of the many talented 1980s cartoon writers (he worked on
He-Man) who achieved greatness later in his career (
Batman, of course - though IMO his greatest creation in that
milieu was the delightfully kooky Harley Quinn). I brought him onboard because he could make the basic mystery element common in many episodes of
Star Trek work in an animated format.
So, in terms of animation, what would be the closest OTL approximation to the Animated Adventures of Star Trek? More Castle of Cagliostro or Transformers
The character designs and animation owe more to idiosyncratic shows like
The Smurfs or
Alvin and the Chipmunks. The action is definitely more in the
Transformers or
G.I. Joe vein. The backgrounds owe the most to the lavish
Cogliostro style. I really can't say any one particular OTL animated series looks the most like
Star Trek ITTL.
Great update! A very nice touch having JMS join the Trek team, and one that fits nicely with his OTL activities in that period. I wonder if he'll develop the idea he had IOTL (though admittedly much later,
when pitching a Trek reboot in the noughties with Bryce Zabel) for developing the backstory of a mysterious elder race that populated the galaxy with humanoids.
JMS was the Story Editor for
The Real Ghostbusters, of course, which is why I gave him that same role ITTL. I'm leaning against him developing an idea like the one you describe, though - it feels too 1990s (and beyond) Myth Arc, especially for a 22-minute Saturday morning cartoon.
nixonshead said:
I'm also curious at how the Animated Adventures will update the theme tune for its new, youthful audience. Could CBBC viewers ITTL catching the British broadcast of the Animated Adventures be treated to something along
these lines? (skip to 0:55 for its full glory).
The kernel of your idea is a very good one, although the example you've provided gives me some pause...
What's interesting is that a lot of classic 1980s cartoon themes actually sound rather dated, even by the standards of their time. Listen to
the He-Man theme, for example. Or
the G.I. Joe theme. Even
the Transformers theme (minus the vocal distortion effects, of course). However, I think I will go with your idea and have the
Star Trek theme be a recognizably 1980s rearrangement.
After all, I think I found
the perfect 1970s rearrangement to use as the theme song for
The Next Voyage!
(Just kidding!)
The look is probably closer to
Castle of Cagliostro, but my idea of the voice cast is more in the
Transformers/
G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero range --
Arthur Burghardt as Commander Khumalo, either
Michael Bell or
Peter Cullen as Captain Probst, etc.
Peter Cullen as Probst? Well, he
is Canadian, so I suppose it
might be possible...
The actors we're looking at for most of these roles are members of the DiC and Nelvana repertory, for the most part. There's going to be substantial overlap with the cast of
Care Bears, for example. However, Desilu will insist that an actual black actor is cast to play Khumalo, and that an actual Asian actress is cast to play Quo, and those are thin on the ground at this point, alas.
Thanks for your suggestions, though, and if you (or any others!) have more, I'd love to hear them.
Mark Evanier, Paul Dini and Diane Duane? (And JMS too, I guess.) Working from a concept by Fontana and Gerrold? I thought you weren't writing a utopia!
Evanier, of course, was the showrunner for
Garfield and Friends, and I brought him on specifically because of his vocal opposition to
The Complainer Is Always Wrong trope - which I think meshes well with the message of
Star Trek (ITTL, at least). And when I found out about Duane having worked on cartoon shows in the 1980s IOTL, well, how could I possibly resist?
Daibhid C said:
Seriously, this show sounds brilliant and I lament that I can't buy the CEDs.
Don't worry, they'll keep airing reruns into the new millennium. (Especially in Canada - I may have loosened CanCon restrictions, but they sure aren't gone entirely.)
Wow! Cool update! That show sounds awesome!
Thank you!
Roger Redux said:
Quick question: with Diane Duane working on actual productions, does that mean that her Rihannsu version of the Romulans becomes cannon (at some point)?
Unfortunately not - it's been decided that, ITTL, canon was already too divergent by 1984 (when the first Rihannsu book was published IOTL).
Interesting take on the concept. I like the irony that you effectively incorporated OTL Animated Series concepts into the later live action material, and OTL Next Generation concepts into the animated series--though that's understandable given that in OTL many TNG concepts first came about in either the Phase II planning or the Animated Series.
Note that Gerrold (uncredited) co-wrote the show's bible, and Fontana is credited for co-writing the pilot. And they're the two people involved ITTL. Coincidence? I think not!
Thande said:
As someone who grew up watching the OTL Animated Series, I can only hope that the animation in this version is a little more sophisticated than 'Kirk flings himself at the camera moving his arms in a robotic way'
It's not movie quality, but it's very competent and flows nicely
Thande said:
The ability to have genuinely alien-aliens is of course an advantage of animation; interesting that they did not decide to incorporate a truly nonhumanoid bridge crew member as the OTL animated series did.
A deliberate choice by the production team - each new alien the crew encounters seem even more alien than they would with a token Edosian, Caitian, Horta, or Tribble on the bridge.
Thande said:
On Wesley Crusher, one thing I find puzzling is that the Making of TNG book mentions that at one point the character was planned as a girl named Leslie, which doesn't seem to mesh with the idea that he was Roddenberry's self-insert boy genius from the start.
Yes, I've heard that too, but I think the choice of name belies that.
Leslie? A gender-flipped self-insert is still a self-insert, Gene
Thande said:
The other thing I find interesting is the relatively small timeskip involved here. I've pondered recently what TNG might have been like if they'd gone with a timeskip of 30-40 years rather than 100 with respect to the Original Series. I think TNG's setting suffered a bit from this because they had to reuse so much movie-era stuff whenever they wanted to show a past starship--it would have made a lot more sense if the Enterprise-D (perhaps call it the Enterprise-C instead) was represented as more of a great leap forward but we're still in the 2330s or something so that explains why there are still plenty of movie-era ships and no new uniform between the movies and the TNG era.
My impression (especially with the Bones cameo in the pilot - yes, he's under gobs of old-age makeup, but I doubt he's intended to be
140) is that the show
was supposed to be set a bit earlier than where they eventually found themselves, but Gene (of course) wanted to distance the show from those awful movies which he hated so much because he wasn't in charge of them anymore.