That Wacky Redhead

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Brainbin, Nov 18, 2011.

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  1. Brainbin Kingpin of the Cultural Cartel

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    More To Come... Right After These Messages

    The "present date" is July 24, 1969 (a Thursday). United States President Hubert H. Humphrey is presently aboard an aircraft carrier in the Pacific Ocean, welcoming the intrepid astronauts of Apollo 11 back home after their successful voyage to the surface of the Moon.

    Desilu Productions has, since the highly-rated series finale of "The Lucy Show" in May 1968, been producing three shows: Star Trek, "Mission: Impossible", and "Mannix". The first two of these, both of which were Top 30 shows in the 1968-69 season, are currently in production of their respective fourth seasons; "Mannix" will be entering its third season. Chief executive Lucille Ball and her right-hand man, Vice-President of Production Herb Solow, are also entertaining ideas for a fourth series. Paramount Television, which is currently leasing the surplus studio space owned by Desilu, has two shows in production: "Room 222" and "Barefoot in the Park", both of which are expected to premiere in September 1969. The story of these two studios, each located right next door to the other, is at the heart of this timeline, but as I'm sure you all know by now, there is a little bit more to it than just that.

    So, what can we expect next, and all on account of that wacky redhead?

    We'll be taking our usual general overview of the next production and broadcast season: 1969-70.

    There will be another "serious" update, as we explore the moon landings in greater detail, with emphasis on their impact on pop culture.

    We'll be seeing another production appendix, this time for the fourth season of Star Trek.

    Our exploration of pop culture will finally give voice to an as-yet unrepresented form of media: the movies.

    And, finally, we'll be taking our first bite of the long-awaited carrot that I promised to my British readers!

    All this and more, coming up on... That Wacky Redhead!

    Thanks so much to all of you for reading and commenting! You can expect the first of these updates in the next couple of days.
     
  2. Falkenburg CMII Donor

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  3. Brainbin Kingpin of the Cultural Cartel

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    Very well done, good sir! Thanks to all this product placement, I'd say you qualify for having bought a No-Prize! Congratulations! I present to you the Miramax No-Prize for Creative Advertising! The citation reads: "Everyone will hate you, but you won't care, because you won a No-Prize and they didn't!" ...But seriously, nice find. I especially like the cable commercial... Oh, how very right they were :D
     
  4. Falkenburg CMII Donor

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    Thank you kindly. :D

    This No Prize will take pride of place amongst my many other non-existent awards. :cool:

    Falkenburg
     
  5. phx1138 Bocagiste troll

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    :eek::eek: Seriously? Considered as the 2d pilot?:eek::eek::eek: I've never heard that before. TY for not producing it.:cool: That said, was there any chance of butterflying Majel & Leonard to keep her as Kirk's XO? Think Saavik. (Not that I'd want to write out Leonard.:eek:)
    Not in my house.:eek: Gene L. made the show run. And if you haven't read the "Vulcan list" memos, you haven't lived.:p (Where in the h*ll did they find the time?:confused::confused::p) A bouquet of orchids for Mr. C.:cool:
    You're right, but the demos didn't start to be industry standard til after Trek went off the air, & OTL, it never got out of the bottom 50.
    Does David know this in time to avoid the gaffes in the script for "Tribbles"? Or do they leave it in for comic effect? ("Does everybody know about this grain but me?":p)
    :cool::cool::cool:
    Hmm.... I"d have picked "Obsession", myself. Or did Norman specifically have it in mind?
    You're not going to butterfly the Dahar Master, are you?:eek::eek: And Dax's relationship? And a great death scene in the Albino's compound? (OK, I could live without that, seeing Koloth should've been over 100 by then, & a Klingon even in his 60s should be f*ckin' ancient.:rolleyes:)

    :cool::cool: Could he have tried to spin off something else?

    Can I call butterflies wiping out "Errand of Mercy", too? Gene called it his one mistake...& the Organian Peace Treaty was a disaster.:eek:
    That's because the "f-word" has been trademarked since 1966.:p ("Dammit, I'm a doctor, not a waitress.":p)
    :mad: I'm sorry, this one, & Scotty, irritates me. What happened to the "command line"? Kirk, Sulu, & Chekov wear Command colors. Which means they're Command qualified. The others aren't. (Yes, I know, in "Where No Man", all the bridge officers wore gold...:rolleyes:)
    You could, I think, get to the same place, more or less, with David's idea for "Cloud Minders", which got butchered somewhere along the way. (Or so he says in his book on "Tribbles", IIRC.) (Plug: I did that in my own thread.:p)
    Requests? I was a huge fan of "Captain Scarlet" as a kid, & I particularly liked "UFO".

    I'm subscribed. Any Trek thread in a storm.;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2011
  6. Brainbin Kingpin of the Cultural Cartel

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    Wow - it's nice to see a hardcore Trekkie find this thread. It's also nice that I was away from the computer for so long, because you obviously had a lot to say, and I'm glad you had the chance to say all of it :)

    Seriously! And whatever you may think of "Where No Man Has Gone Before", it's far and away the best choice of those three scripts.

    Believe me, it was my pleasure.

    Do I think it could be done? Doubtful. Keeping Spock was a "Hail Mary" compromise; Number One certainly couldn't have been saved. At least, not while she was played by Majel Barrett, whom the executives hated because she obviously got the part on account of being Roddenberry's mistress. Now, could it have been done in this timeline? No, for the very simple reason that the decision was made about a year and a half before my POD (which is some indeterminate point in late 1966 - halfway through production of the first season).

    He most certainly did. Without a doubt, the most underrated person connected to the show's production.

    Since it's Friday night, I'll drink to that :cool:

    True, but demographics were known at this time and executives did take them into consideration - they just weren't weighted more than overall ratings until the early 1970s. Believe it or not, there's no solid evidence that NBC was planning to cancel Star Trek after the second season - everyone just thought they would, because ratings were so low. Then all the letters came in made the point moot, of course.

    Every single line in that script is a gem - how can I get rid of that exchange? Leave it in. Though you did remind me of a minor cast change from OTL that I neglected to mention - The Admiral is Komack instead of Fitzpatrick. Apparently, it was intended to be Komack until the very last revisions of the script, so all we have to do is factor in the butterflies from Barbara Luna not getting sick ITTL. Also, as a follow-up effect, in "For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky", Byron Morrow explicitly appears as Komack (and is mentioned as such in dialogue) instead of as "Westervliet". That's three explicit appearances (and several mentions) in three seasons.

    Yes, Spinrad has explicitly mentioned Moby-Dick as an inspiration. "Obsession" is just an example of the show taking the same basic story idea and looking at it from different perspectives - something that it did very frequently, IOTL and ITTL. (We'll pick up on that shortly.)

    It seems that you aren't seeing the forest for the trees. Who's to say that this show you're referring to (which I will not mention by name - sorry, it's one of TTL's verboten words), or indeed, anything else you mentioned, is going to come into being at all?

    His relationship with both the studio and the network is much stronger ITTL, because he's got a bona fide hit on his hands, and (as IOTL) he's taking the lion's share of the credit for it. So I don't think he'll need a backdoor pilot to launch a new series.

    Technically, it was created after the POD, though the butterflies won't have hit the series proper until February 1967 (by which point the episode was already in the can). But I don't think I would anyway. It does introduce Kor (who was cast by this episode's director) and the Klingons, and the Organian Peace Treaty does create tension and force the two powers to co-operate with each other instead of going to war (remember, blatant Cold War allegory). And there's plenty of wiggle room for the writers to get rid of the treaty later on.

    BONES: Please, Spock, do me a favour, and don't say it's "fascinating".
    SPOCK: No. But it is... interesting.

    I'm sorry, but that one was in the series bible. The chain of command was very clearly Kirk - Spock - Scotty - Sulu - Uhura. But when Uhura was due to take command in "Catspaw", the network balked, saying "We don't believe her in charge of anything". ITTL, one year later, with the added clout of better ratings, and a certain Wacky Redhead in their corner, they'll at least get away with implying.

    And by the way, why doesn't Spock, in his science blues, being First Officer not irritate you, hmmm? :p

    And this is where I pick up from my earlier point. Two episodes about slave-holding societies in one season is very much in keeping with how scripts are produced on the show. For what it's worth, I see Gerrold's vision for "The Cloud Minders" focusing much more strongly on the Prime Directive aspects of the story, at least if we're to judge by his later work IOTL. He really seemed to take to it.

    I noticed your thread yesterday, and was going to add some of the episodes I developed here, but I thought that simply reusing my established ideas wholesale might be rather tacky. It's a great idea, though, so best of luck to it :)

    Gerry Anderson shows? Well, you've certainly picked the right genre. I'll be sure to keep your suggestions in mind.

    Thank you very much! And thank you for all your comments! I hope you enjoy all of the many things to come :D

    The 1969-70 update should be ready tomorrow.
     
  7. Threadmarks: 1969-70: Let the Sunshine In

    Brainbin Kingpin of the Cultural Cartel

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    Let The Sunshine In (1969-70)

    "But in the field of television, the strongest constant has been Miss Lucille Ball. She entered this decade one of the medium's biggest stars, and that is exactly how she will depart it - though in a very different role. In 1960, she continued to appear on the "Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour" specials with her now ex-husband, and co-stars Vivian Vance and the late William Frawley, as an actress and comedienne. Today, she is the sole chief executive of Desilu, the studio she co-founded with Desi Arnaz, which has remained one of the most successful in Hollywood. Desilu's programming has helped to define this era in which we Americans are living, and the challenges we're facing ahead. We see no reason that she won't continue to be as firm a fixture in the coming decade as she has been in the last two."

    - Excerpt from The 1960s in Review, in the December 15 - 21, 1969, edition of Variety

    There was no doubt about it – as the 1960s came to a close – Desilu was the toast of the town. In addition to the critical acclaim and awards recognition bestowed upon the series produced there, this season marked the apogee of their ratings success - all three ranked in the Top 30 for the 1969-70 season, with one of them cracking the Top 10. But such astonishing success did not come without its own price. Star Trek and “Mission: Impossible”, the twin triumphs that had turned the studio into “The House that Paladin Built”, both found themselves facing troubles with their respective casts, though very divergent ones.

    The husband-and-wife team of Martin Landau and Barbara Bain, hot off their Emmy wins as Outstanding Actor and Actress in a Dramatic Series, wanted more money to stay with “Mission: Impossible”. It was no bluff, either; the two of them were fully prepared to walk. In an 11th-hour meeting, Desilu and CBS agreed that the two were worth keeping, and signed the pair to a two-year contract extension. [1] (Landau and Bain had initially insisted on taking extensions on a season-by-season basis, but made this concession as a compromise.)

    The situation on Star Trek was more complicated. Most of the supporting cast – led by James Doohan, who played Scotty – demanded credit in the opening titles, alongside stars William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, and DeForest Kelley, rather than in the end credits. Obviously, the five actors (Doohan, Nichelle Nichols, George Takei, Walter Koenig, and John Winston [2] – with Majel Barrett, Gene Roddenberry’s mistress, remaining conspicuously silent on the issue) could not all be added there, or the opening would run too long. In the end, a surprisingly simple compromise took a surprisingly long time to reach: the supporting actors who appeared in each episode would be listed in Act I, on the episode's title card, under the heading “Co-Starring”, followed by the writer and director credits on the next card.

    These issues, however, were minor speed bumps on the otherwise very smooth ride for Desilu. Lucille Ball, having ended her onscreen career, was free to focus on running the studio, a responsibility she handled with aplomb. But Paramount had made good on the deal she had signed in 1967, and were now beginning to produce programs of their own, using her studio space. Conferring with her right-hand man, Herb Solow, the two agreed that Desilu could produce four shows – as the studio had done in the 1967-68 season – rather than just three, and allow Paramount carte blanche to the rest of their lot. Financially, it suited Desilu's needs just fine; Ball was a champion of allowing her shows the greatest amount of creative expression possible, but the extra costs had to come from somewhere.

    One of the first producers to approach them when the word went out was a distinguished veteran, and longtime friend of Ball: Rod Serling. He had been thoroughly impressed with the high quality of the studio's product, the creative freedom afforded to producers, and the reputation for furthering and legitimizing "genre" television. He pitched a macabre anthology series idea he had called "Night Gallery". Ball and Solow both loved the idea, and immediately set to work in the pilot: this would be picked up by NBC and air as a television movie in late 1969, ahead of the series proper, which would begin airing in the 1970-71 season. [3]

    In contrast to the established Desilu, Paramount Television failed to make much of an impact with its first two shows: "Room 222" and "Barefoot in the Park", both of which aired on ABC. This did not discourage Division President Grant Tinker, who still had an ace up his sleeve: his wife, Mary Tyler Moore. She had co-starred in "The Dick Van Dyke Show", and remained extremely popular. A vehicle for his wife would be just what Paramount needed to get a sure-fire hit on its hands. Tinker consulted the creator of "Room 222", James L. Brooks, who was commissioned to write a pilot script with his partner, Allan Burns. [4] The decision was also made to adapt another Neil Simon play (that had also been adapted into a film), "The Odd Couple", to join "Barefoot" on the studio's roster. This had been Paramount owner Charles Bluhdorn's idea; he supported synergy between Paramount's film division (which had produced the movie) and its television division.

    On the broadcasting front, since the collapse of the DuMont Network in 1956, there had only been the three networks on television: ABC, NBC, and CBS. The nearest thing to a “fourth network” was the publicly-owned National Educational Television, or NET. However
    contrary to what was the case in the Commonwealth countries in the USA, the public broadcaster was not dominant – far from it. Indeed, it had barely been viable for the last several years, teetering on the edge of going the way of DuMont. That changed with the election of President Humphrey, who – in one of his first acts in office – earmarked the funding necessary to utterly revamp NET. The new network to be established from its ashes would be called the Public Broadcasting System, or PBS. It would begin broadcasting in 1970. [5]

    With regards to ratings for the three networks, CBS had 14 shows in the Top 30; the same amount as in the previous year. NBC had been reduced to 10, with ABC seeing their numbers rise to 6. However, NBC had five of the Top 10 shows, with CBS having only four. ABC had their first Top 10 hit since the heyday of the aging “Bewitched”, with the brand-new series “Marcus Welby, M.D.” Once again, “Laugh-In” was the #1 show of the year, though viewership numbers were down. Monday night continued to be the most-watched night of the week, with a whopping five of the Top 10 airing on that night alone (three on CBS and two on NBC). A further four shows airing that night placed in the Top 30, for a total of nine. Friday, on the other hand, continued to be the only day of the week shut out from the Top 30.

    At the Emmy Awards that summer, Star Trek won Outstanding Drama Series for the second time, making it the fourth consecutive year that a Desilu series had taken home the big prize. Leonard Nimoy also won his second trophy for Supporting Actor; and for the fourth consecutive year, Barbara Bain won the Emmy for Lead Actress. Winning for Outstanding Comedy Series was one of Paramount’s new shows, the fledgling “Room 222”, which also picked up the Emmys for Supporting Actor and Actress in a Comedy Series. [6] The Emmy win proved a boon to the struggling series, and marked a triumphant end to an uneven first season for Paramount


    ---

    [1] IOTL, Paramount wasn’t willing to hand out the extra money, resulting in the pair’s departure. Here, the added cachet of an Emmy win for Landau, coupled with the more accommodating brass at Desilu, means that most of their demands are met, and they stay. Interestingly, Landau’s OTL replacement was the recently-unemployed Leonard Nimoy – obviously Nimoy would not be available ITTL even if Landau did leave. (The show lasted an additional four seasons without Bain and Landau IOTL.)

    [2] Winston, as Transporter Chief Kyle, has appeared in 28 episodes, putting him up three on Barrett, as Nurse Chapel. IOTL, the character of Kyle appeared in the animated series (though not voiced by Winston) and made a cameo in Star Trek II, so obviously the creators liked the character (and/or actor) and wanted him around, but couldn’t afford to keep another regular given the budget problems.

    [3] Serling, IOTL, partnered with a production team that did not respect his control-freak nature and creative genius; therefore, the resulting show suffered. Here, he's smart enough to pair with a studio that has a reputation for letting creators off their leash, and with whom he already has an "in" to begin with, as Desilu was involved in the early development of The Twilight Zone. The airing schedule is as per OTL; "pilot movies" were very common in this era. This will also give Desilu two shows on NBC, and two shows on CBS.

    [4] Brooks and Burns created "Mary Tyler Moore" IOTL. Accordingly, this show's development will follow the same trajectory.

    [5] IOTL, Nixon wanted to slash funding for public broadcasting from $20 million to less than half that – effectively strangling PBS in the cradle. The prospective network was saved by the most unlikely candidate: a mild-mannered, soft-spoken man of faith, by the name of Mister Fred Rogers. His arguments before Sen. John Pastore rescued PBS from oblivion. ITTL, that won’t be necessary, alas.

    [6] The Emmy Awards have historically been very kind to critically-acclaimed but struggling shows, and have been known to award them (as a kind of advocacy). IOTL, the 1969 Emmy for Dramatic Series was almost certainly awarded to "NET Playhouse" because Nixon's funding cuts were threatening the end of public television altogether. Since that wasn't a threat ITTL with the election of Humphrey, it instead went to "Mission: Impossible" (over the more controversial choice of Star Trek).

    ---

    And with this update, we have finally arrived in the 1970s! Welcome to the "Me" Decade, everyone!
     
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  8. Falkenburg CMII Donor

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    Another Thread got me to thinking about the Muppets. :)

    Will President Humphrey enact the Prime Time Access Rule?

    If so, would Desilu be interested in picking up The Muppet Show or Co-Producing with Lew Grades' ATV?

    Could bring about an earlier launch for the series if it had a cheerleader like TWR in its' corner.

    It's time to play the music... :D

    Falkenburg
     
  9. stevep Member

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    Brainbin

    Interesting update and the study going well.

    A little curious, for footnote 5 on public service board-casting, why the final 'alas'?

    Steve
     
  10. Brainbin Kingpin of the Cultural Cartel

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    My word! It looks like someone has been doing a little research! ;) Well, the PTAR was essentially a piece of antitrust legislation, so I see no reason why a liberal Democrat like Humphrey would not support it. It was also a watershed point in American television, along with a couple of other key events happening at the same time. In fact, I'll probably devote an entire post to the subject(s), which you can expect in the next round of updates.

    You're now the second person to have asked me to give The Muppets a chance stateside. Judging from some initial investigation into the subject, it could be possible, and yes, That Wacky Redhead would be a superb backer for the project, if it were her cup of tea. But would it be? Up to this point, she's favoured three kinds of shows: sitcoms, action-adventure series, and "genre" programming. She never seemed terribly fond of variety shows - too spontaneous for her, I think. She always saw comedy as a very meticulous, carefully crafted process. If Jim Henson or someone else were to explain to her that The Muppets would require this same kind of care and attention to detail (certainly, it couldn't be thrown together like, say, "The Carol Burnett Show"), then maybe that might get her to "give it a whirl".

    Does that mean you're learning a lot from this TL? If so, glad to be of service :)

    It's something I'm very sorry to have eliminated from TTL, because IOTL, it really was like something out of a movie. The hammer was going to come down on public television, but this simple, plain-spoken man was able to convince them, entirely with rhetoric, to restore the funding to PBS. I mean, imagine one of Captain Kirk's speeches to the bad guy of the week actually working. Well, here it does.

    A classic example of reality being unrealistic; you really have to see it to believe it. (WARNING: Link is to YouTube)

    I lament removing it from TTL, because it was both a personal triumph for Mister Rogers and a classical triumph of David over Goliath, but it had to be done: no Nixon, no funding cuts. But fear not; Mister Rogers will have his moment in the sun in the years to come.
     
  11. phx1138 Bocagiste troll

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    :eek: Please, not Trekkie. Trekkies are groupies.:mad: There's Trekker, the average fan, & Trekists, those who can identify the episode by the color of the sky.:eek: (I've never actually met one, but I believe it.;)) Not everybody is offended by "Trekkie", but you'll offend nobody with Trekker.;)
    :) I've read a lot of threads here. I don't think I've enjoyed one more.:cool::cool: And changing the Presidential election was a nice touch, a butterfly I'd never have realized.:eek::cool:
    :( What was it with bad pilot episodes...?:confused: And overly-powerful aliens?:confused::rolleyes:
    I've never actually seen the decision dated anywhere, so thx. I only really ask because I like the idea of a woman in the XO role, & more Riker than T'Pol.
    :) (I see you missed the gag line...:eek:)
    That I didn't know. Could be what I've read, they didn't know it, either.:rolleyes:
    Fair enough. Agreed, David's script is pretty priceless. (Needless to say, my fave episode.;))
    Too frequently, at times...:rolleyes: Mostly they were good scripts, tho. And you're not going far enough to get to "STNG", are you? Presuming anything like it even would arise TTL... Or I'd ask why it is the "TOS" episodes are tighter & better-paced.:confused: Is that all in the directing?
    True enough. That would disappoint me deeply.:(:(:( Of them all, I liked "DS9" best, except the explicit religious themes.:rolleyes:
    Not a "need", but a vehicle to keep/add to the "TOS" audience. Same deal as with "DS9", or "NCIS" or "NCIS:L.A." spun off "JAG", or "The Jeffersons" & "Maude" off "AITF". If Gene wanted to go with something entirely different, I see no reason TTL he couldn't get it approved.
    If the butterflies hit at all, you wouldn't need big ones to avoid the Organians & a war. Even in the Cold War, there was a lot of shoving. Recce a/c were shot down, subs got "bumped" & harrassed on a routine basis... At Enterprise's level, there might even be some shooting, but it wouldn't have to escalate...:eek:
    :)
    :mad: Of all the changes I'd have made to the show, that was the biggest.:eek:
    No problems, given the show bible.;)
    It does, just a bit less.;) T'Pol, too.;) I do recall "WNM" & a few of the early episodes having them all in gold (as rendered on my TV:rolleyes::p), so it could be they were supposed to be command qualified; I've never read what Gene had in mind, or if he even considered a different method. (The one in use is USN standard, or maybe USAF, which he served in. The one I have in mind is RN.) It could have weird effects for a U.S. audience, with a Lt. or Ens. telling a Cdr what to do...:rolleyes:
    Do I take you to mean he held to the PD strongly? I got that sense, too. He busted Kirk pretty hard for violating it.:eek: I would, too, actually. Except, I think this is the same sort of thing you see in "TNG" OTL, too: a good officer has to know when to violate it. It would've been good, & David rightly points this out, if there'd been more debate. They could readily have sacrificed some fight scenes...:rolleyes:
    I have no objections, since I've more/less done as many as really irritated me...;) (Just deleting all the Ferengi episodes would have meant conceiving about half the series all over again,:eek: & that's more work than I really wanted to do, if I'm not getting paid for it.:p)
    It's past your '75 cutoff year, but I also really liked Moonbase Alpha as a setting.:cool:
    Not a problem. I expect I'll like it just as much,:cool: so you can count on more from me.:eek::D

    So, a question: did anybody ever consider just following "Laugh-In" with "TOS"? As popular as it was, that would've been an enormous boost to "ST" ratings... Or was the "carryover" not as well understood then?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  12. phx1138 Bocagiste troll

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    :eek: They really thought that? I can just picture how they'd react to the lead for "Hill Street".:eek::D ("You want to put how many in the titles?":eek::eek::p Hmm...cut the "Where no man" speech & go right to the titles...?;))
    :cool:
    :cool: Somebody likes Leonard, I take it...?:p (Not to say he didn't deserve it.:))
    Gaining the same way "HSB" did.:cool: "MASH", too, IIRC. Or was that on the strength of the summer reruns?

    Are the changed conditions impacting the writing of "M:I" & "ST"? I imagine, with POTUS Humphrey, society will be affected noticeably compared to OTL (& not only no Watergate), which IMO would tend to change script selection & episode ratings & such. Maybe not enough to be visible except on a week-to-week basis, tho... Enough to change guest stars? To make careers? Or drastically change their direction? (Frex, you've effectively made Winston a bigger star; this could get him roles that went to somebody else OTL.)
    I'm finding that really strange, 'cause we had it. I always thought it was a U.S. product.:confused:
    So that was it...:rolleyes: Harlan was right: the execs have the IQ of a turnip.:eek::p
    I wonder if Congress might still not be hostile, & there still being a need.
     
  13. Emperor Norton I Calbear's Love Child

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  14. Vulpine Fury New Member

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    Henson had to produce the Muppet Show in England via ITC. Nobody in the US would give him studio time, IIRC.
     
  15. stevep Member

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    Brainbin

    I remember enjoying the Muppets and since it came over from the US had presumed it was a success there but by the sound of it not? Seems a bit surprising.

    Sorry, typo on my part. I am learning a lot but I meant the studio was doing well.:eek:

    Thanks for that. Very interesting and I see what you mean. I fear that nowadays, someone speaking rather hesitantly but from the heart would probably get very short shift nowadays without the same glib presentation people take for granted nowadays.

    I'll make clear that I agree with phx1138 about DS9. Found it a lot more interesting than either NG or Voyager. Possibly the long period in the same spot [most of the time] allowed characters and background to be better developed while in the latter ~2/3 the Dominion war gave some overall definition to the plot. If it wasn't for Bab5 it would have been clearly the best SF series on British TV in the 90's.

    Steve
     
  16. phx1138 Bocagiste troll

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    I got the sense it was a different approach to the show, more drama or character-driven than adventure. The "Dominion War" was a crutch IMO, a way to boost ratings. (And the constant reference to "lines" in a naval war was a real irritant.:rolleyes:)
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  17. Barbarossa Rotbart Well-Known Member

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    DS9 was (IMHO) the best Star Trek series because it was so very different from other Star Trek shows. But they've several mistakes (but less than Voyager, Enterprise and TNG):
    - too many Ferengi episodes
    - incomplete storylines (Bajor)
    - wrong actors for some roles

    In OTL DS9 was created after JMS tried to sell Babylon 5 to Paramount and the studio was not interested.
     
  18. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Just started readinig this, and I have to say, one of the best popular culture PODs and handlings of subsequent events I have seen thus far. Keep up the good work!
     
  19. Emperor Norton I Calbear's Love Child

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2008
    Location:
    New Netherland
    Two Questions:

    What becomes of Shatner's singing career?

    And is a Saturday Morning Star Trek cartoon for the 70s still possible? Certainly animated spin-offs are reasonably common.
     
  20. phx1138 Bocagiste troll

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Location:
    Charlie Townsend's guest house
    :eek::eek::eek: He's doing duets with Clint Eastwood in Hell?:p
     
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