Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.

When introduced the Mosquito was limited to four 500 lb bombs. The Luftwaffe soon surpassed the Mosquito's best speed.
Not exactly no. The Mossie was notably difficult to intercept and to shoot down right through the war. It started with both a high top and cruising speed and the increases in that speed throughout the war basically kept pace with developments. The only German aircraft that could take the Mossie down in a tail chase were the jets and super fighters (ME262, and 163, the HE 163, and in specific circumstances the TA 152 after a long chase).

That doesn’t mean they didn’t get shot down. They did, and even sometimes by ME-109’s (though most of the fighter kills were from FW-190’s) but these were from head on intercepts. A task made very difficult by the Mossies high cruising speed throwing off German fighter control and their high top speed allowing them to out speed most interceptions. Basically a fighter had to already be at a higher altitude and catch the Mossie by surprise. In the first 6 months of combat 22 Mossies were lost on sortie. Only 6 of those were to fighters. Most were to flak, with pilot error making up the balance. The loss rate also went down over time with 2 Group having a loss rate per sortie of only 2.2% on daylight raids over Europe in 1944. Of the 29 aircraft they lost, only 1 was to fighters.

After the PR raids of Berlin by Mossies the LW set up dedicated Mossie hunting units. One failed to get any kills and was moved to attack heavy bombers. The others got only very occasional intercepts.
 
Last edited:
When introduced the Mosquito was limited to four 500 lb bombs. The Luftwaffe soon surpassed the Mosquito's best speed.
While I agree with the initial load, speed has little to do with interception. First you need to know there is something to intercept. Radar, on the German side, had a few limitations. They did not have a UK integrated air defence system. Thus a mosquito attack coming in at close, but not necessarily faster than Luftwaffe JG units, may evade them because the actual geometry of intercept cannot be achieved. If they bisect the line between two JG bases, then the JGs involved will have to do a catch up and with the mosquito speed that will be difficult. And just look at the RAF intel about flak areas and JG bases to see how well they tried to plan their missions.
However, Mosquito raids are not the be all and end all. They only carried a few tons of bombs, although their load was the equivalentof a B-17. You have to identify critical points in the German economy that have to be destroyed. And this was still a novice science in those days.
 
The only problem with the Mosquito is that there was never enough of them.
Yes, it could carry 4,000lb bombs, but the converted Mk IVs were marginal performers and hated by their crews. The properly designed B.XVIs were superb aircraft.
 
There is also the upside that a Mosquito crew was only Pilot and Bombardier/Navigator, had an inherently lower radar cross section due to it's wooden construction and only had two engines.

As the Wooksta said above, the only problem with the Mosquito was the limited numbers of them that could be produced.

With the reduced drawdown in skilled trades to feed the frontline army units, there might be an increase of Mosquito production numbers simply because they can afford to throw more people at the production issue that simply weren't available OTL.
 
in the quoted article in post 9200 the maximum payload of the Lancaster is quoted at 22,000 lb, this is very disingenuous as that is a grand slam bomb load and not carried by a standard Lancaster. 18,000 lb was about thye maximum bomb load alate war standard Lancaster could carry and that was IIRC with a reduced range and not all the way to Berlin.
In winter another advantage of the Mosquito was that with two crews the same aircraft could make to runs to Berlin in a single night. It is horses for courses, IMHO a greater mix of Mosquito's in 1943/4 might well have reduced the horrendous bomber crew losses and not actually much reduced the effectiveness of the bomber force.
 
There is also the upside that a Mosquito crew was only Pilot and Bombardier/Navigator, had an inherently lower radar cross section due to it's wooden construction and only had two engines.

As the Wooksta said above, the only problem with the Mosquito was the limited numbers of them that could be produced.

With the reduced drawdown in skilled trades to feed the frontline army units, there might be an increase of Mosquito production numbers simply because they can afford to throw more people at the production issue that simply weren't available OTL.
Does anyone know why the US never built Mosquitos for the UK? USAAF certainly wanted them for specialised missions (PR) and received some from Canada and I would have thought the opportunities for US construction were huge. They did adopt the Canberra / B-57 in the same role a few years later so it wasn't completely unheard of.
 
Does anyone know why the US never built Mosquitos for the UK? USAAF certainly wanted them for specialised missions (PR) and received some from Canada and I would have thought the opportunities for US construction were huge. They did adopt the Canberra / B-57 in the same role a few years later so it wasn't completely unheard of.
They did, but the USAAF didn't need a lot Mosquito's. so they got a few as reversend Lend-Lease.


see: https://www.key.aero/article/when-us-army-air-forces-flew-de-havilland-mosquitos
 
Mosquitos did not possess inherent stealth. They had two big spinning propellers, one on each wing. They make huge mirrors to radar.
Stealth is a relative term, Mosquitos were harder to detect than say Wellingtons, add in that they came in low and German reaction times were much more limited than other raids. It was not unknown for raids on coastal areas not be picked up at all by radar.
 
The US got a load of PR.IV equivalent aircraft built in Canada but used them largely for training. One US commander tried to get them, complained to the British and was angrily told ‘you mean all the ones you’ve kept in the US?)
They did get PR.XVIs later in the war.
Canadian production only really ramped up towards 1943.
Edit: Canadian production was Packard single stage Merlins, largely fighter-bomber, trainer and bomber Mosquitoes.
Australian production for the RAAF was limited to fighter bombers and trainers, although some of the latter were armed and some FB40s were converted to PR use, the PR41s getting two stage Merlins.
There were plans to produce Mosquitoes in India but these fell through.

Related. Finland was to have built their own Mosquito clone, using crashed examples as patterns, using German DB605s and Blenheim undercarriages.

Argentina tried to get Merlins for their Mosquito clone, the IAe 24 Calquin, but the Air Ministry said no, then offered to sell them Mosquitoes.
 
Last edited:
Th
"The B-17 would carry 3,500b of bombs to Berlin and the Mosquito 4,000lbs. But the devil is in the detail, the Mosquito had to deliver its payload as either one bomb of 4,000lbs or as four 500lbs bombs. Whereas the B-17 payload would allow for a much wider variation, so was more flexible."




From
The Mosquito went through many marks and models. I believe the early marks could not carry a 4000 bomb. I have conflicting have conflicting information, but I believe it was 1943 before an adaptation was done ITTL.
 
Th

The Mosquito went through many marks and models. I believe the early marks could not carry a 4000 bomb. I have conflicting have conflicting information, but I believe it was 1943 before an adaptation was done ITTL.
To carry the 4000lb bomb the plane had to be modified to have a bulged bomb bay , this was standard on some later bomber marks and an option on the rest as you say from 1943
 
There were plans to produce Mosquitoes in India but these fell through.

Related. Finland was to have built their own Mosquito clone, using crashed examples as patterns, using German DB605s and Blenheim undercarriages.
Do tell me more about the Finnish and Indian ones. Where were they going to get the balsa or what alternative was intended?
 
I not read much on the Finnish plans, although I suspect that they’d use whatever wood they could grow.
I can’t remember which book I came across the Indian proposal, I have as many Mosquito references as I could get my hands on. They were to have been B.IV equivalents though.
 

Orry

Donor
Monthly Donor
Still big enough for most jobs. Heck, for precision jobs, they probably wouldn't be carrying that much.


Without massed bomber raids, they probably won't commit as much to the West.

So the CCCP* suffers again......

If their heavy AA is also less useful more of it might end up in the east as support arty (AT?)

Again the CCCP suffers.......

Maybe less of eastern europe gets to "enjoy" soviet occupation


*I remember as a young teen collecting stamps from the CCCP
 
I not read much on the Finnish plans, although I suspect that they’d use whatever wood they could grow.
I don't think a Mosquito version with its stressed-skin structural members' cores made of pine or silver birch...the most common trees in Finland...would be quite the speedster of the original design.
 
Top