The OTL Japanese assault was on such a shoe string, I'd be surprised if they succeeded the same way TTL - but there may well be a scramble to reinforce for Round 2, rather than a British victory that actually throws them out of Malaya entirely.
Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.
- Thread starter allanpcameron
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There's only fifty of the things, and they're Infantry Tanks, which means they can make 15 mph on road, with a tail-wind, and only 9 mph across country.
The likely difference is that Percival uses whatever of them he has left to hold Singapore longer, like a giant Bataan Peninsula, only with much better facilities.
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Given the difference what a few Stuarts made in Burma OTL , quite a lot. Japanese Logistics ( something they were terrible at ) mean they cannot afford to be slowed, if they are, the wheels come off and they quickly stall. They have basically 1 railway line and sea transport, OTL logistics were maxed and stockpiles diminishing for the entire campaign.
The overall overcomplicated plan means extra transport ships are not available and the ones they start with are needed elsewhere pretty quickly. They really did roll 7's vs 1's OTL.
allanpcameron
Donor
I meant to say that Vyvyan Pope obviously didn't die in an air crash TTL. According to Wiki, sorry, he was going to a meeting with Cunningham (GOC 8th Army) when his plane crashed. With O'Connor and Neame un-captured, I thought there was enough leeway for the change to take place. The plane might well have still crashed, but not with Pope in it.
Allan.
Allan.
Fair enough. If Singapore/Malaya remains free, that gives Britain a much stronger bargaining position in the Pacific.
I wonder what effect that will have.
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allanpcameron
Donor
Please note that I have edited the last update. I had Philip Neame down as GOC XIII Corps, but it should have been Godwin-Austen, as OTL.
I now have Neame and Alan Cunningham going spare. What would happen if Cunningham went to Burma to replace McLeod instead of Hutton? Especially if one of the African Divisions from Cunningham's East African campaign is sent to Burma in addition to 17th Indian Div?
Likewise what if Neame gets Malaya instead of Percival? Again, with things going better in the Middle East, 18th Division may be sent to India/Malaya earlier, likewise the possibility of two Australian Divisions being released from Middle East earlier...
With Auchinleck as CinC India, Neame in Malaya and Cunningham in Burma, with a bit more in trained troops...(and some tanks), what happens?
I now have Neame and Alan Cunningham going spare. What would happen if Cunningham went to Burma to replace McLeod instead of Hutton? Especially if one of the African Divisions from Cunningham's East African campaign is sent to Burma in addition to 17th Indian Div?
Likewise what if Neame gets Malaya instead of Percival? Again, with things going better in the Middle East, 18th Division may be sent to India/Malaya earlier, likewise the possibility of two Australian Divisions being released from Middle East earlier...
With Auchinleck as CinC India, Neame in Malaya and Cunningham in Burma, with a bit more in trained troops...(and some tanks), what happens?
Well Neame was a consummate staff officer like Perival, however with a far better understanding of training in broad TOE and staff terms.
He also happened to be incredibly brave and wouldn't have buckled under the pressure (not that he would have made better decisions, he just would have likely carried on commanding unlike Percival's flounce).
Honestly don't know enough about why he was never given a decent posting in OTL but from his CV he looks like a potent asset.
He also happened to be incredibly brave and wouldn't have buckled under the pressure (not that he would have made better decisions, he just would have likely carried on commanding unlike Percival's flounce).
Honestly don't know enough about why he was never given a decent posting in OTL but from his CV he looks like a potent asset.
allanpcameron
Donor
Neame had done well as GOC 4th Indian Division in Op Compass, but he was captured along with O'Connor in North Africa, so spent a large part of the war in an Italian POW camp. Cunningham OTOH, having done really well in East Africa, didn't cover himself in glory as GOC 8th Army and was fired by Auchinleck. Churchill didn't want him in another role. Godwin-Austin as GOC XIII Corps opposed Cunningham's desire to stop Crusader after losing a lot of the tanks in the early stages. Then he fell foul of Ritchie, Cunningham's successor. Likewise G-A ended up on Churchill's naughty list, despite Alan Brooke's attempts to rehabilitate him.
I meant after his escape he does seem to have been blamed for the failure of the op.
He just seemed competent as a staff officer. Wonder what he'd have been brought to the table if he'd been given a long term planning role rather than a command.
The problem regarding Percival is that if Wikipedia is correct he had actually spent time in Malaya from 1936 to 1938 and he had actually spent time studying how the Imperial Japanese might invade. What might have been some of the reasoning for what was going on in sending him out there (man's been in the country so must surely know it; man's studied the enemy and how they might operate) is possible to see.
Wikipedia claims Neame had spent some time in India in the 1930's, so it might (if Wikipedia is right) be halfway plausible for him to be sent out somewhere 'that way'.
The big bonus from having Matildas in Malaya is the way the Japanese cant block the roads behind the retreating formations. Lacking an easy way past these, they had to abandon a lot of kit to go around them. A Matlida II can just drive up and shove the blockage aside, while machine-gunning the Japanese. It's not like they have any way of hurting it.
With this advantage, the retreat is better organised and holds for longer, which means the Japanese advance outruns its logistics and has to stop short of Singapore, giving the Britihs much needed time to recover and prepare
With this advantage, the retreat is better organised and holds for longer, which means the Japanese advance outruns its logistics and has to stop short of Singapore, giving the Britihs much needed time to recover and prepare
If they parcel them out, yes, but per page #42, that might not happen.
Let's be fair People here are being Pessimistic.
With what the British Have in Malaya now, and what they will be getting the Japanese Logistics Can be cut easily, and with the 50 Matilda 2s who can Roll up the Japanese with infantry support very very easily, it's already becoming near impossible for the current Japanese forces.
Add in a couple of extra Blooded and Trained Divisions and you're looking at Malaya and Bhurma being utterly Catastrophic for the Japanese on the Land.
Which may very well help stop Force Z from being sunk if they don't get that false Landing report.
Mark1878
Donor
Americans still won't accept a British or Austrailian commander over their troops.
So MacArthur will still get command in Australia