Without major American cities, lack of easy transport, and lack of currency. There is no mass market for Mexican drugs. I imagine any drugs issue are going to be down to local production rather than anything international.
Seven Days to the River Rhine: the Third World War - a TL
- Thread starter Onkel Willie
- Start date
Fxgentleman
Donor
I have two questions concerning Chapter XII: Post-War Conflict, 1986-1994. My research showed that in the fall of 1983, the PLO was in the midst of a civil war, with one faction supporting Arafat and the other backed by Syria. Arafat may or may not have been in Tripoli, Lebanon around late Sept. 1983. It is my understanding that Syria had turned against him. So, how was he able to survive and make it to Iraq to found the Palestinian state in exile. Also, what happened to Syria in the war? Did the US target Soviet sites in the country with nuclear strikes and if not, what happened to the Soviets there and Syria in general. Just curious. Thanks.
At this time, he was a young Senator and one of the proponents of greater cooperation with China to contain the Soviets.
As evident by this The New York Times article in 1981 about the U.S. and China establishing ELINT posts in Xinjiang.
After twenty years in the wilderness and shouldering the blame for America getting nuked back into the 1800s, I think the remaining Republicans would probably dissolve. There would be little prospect of political revival in a short enough time frame for the ambitious to see it through (as it would clearly be beyond the usual wait of one or two election cycles for the political landscape to change and the pendulum to go your way again). Their pre-war political ideas are also largely dead in the water; the government has control of much of the economy out of necessity, there's clearly no scope for private healthcare on a scale larger than a small town clinic, and culture war issues have such limited appeal that prostitution was decriminalized.
The GOP would need a radical shift in politics to become relevant again and unfortunately for them, there's just no scope for such a project in the medium term.
Possibly this would, at least temporarily, see people defecting to or joining the Democrats and the political contests being internal ones for factional advantage; in time as the country recovered the party might split as new political issues emerged and the tent couldn't be big enough for them.
The GOP would need a radical shift in politics to become relevant again and unfortunately for them, there's just no scope for such a project in the medium term.
Possibly this would, at least temporarily, see people defecting to or joining the Democrats and the political contests being internal ones for factional advantage; in time as the country recovered the party might split as new political issues emerged and the tent couldn't be big enough for them.
Whoa that update was really long - personally I'd split it into two, the USA and the Europe.
Ukraine and Nagorno-Karabakh portions seem inspired by recent IRL events?
Ukraine and Nagorno-Karabakh portions seem inspired by recent IRL events?
So pretty much back to HRE.
Apart from this, this is like the third time you refer to women engaging in survival sex/prostitution. But no mentions of male heterosexuals engaging in the same acts strikes me as somewhat weird.... in a complete collapse like this, male whores would probably be almost as common as female ones....
I find it pretty weird that my country Indonesia joined a military alliance led by India because technically by doing that we are obliged to come to india's defense when nobody would probably invade us because of our important geographic position, besides our constitution technically forbids joining a military alliance. i can see the leadership joining in as an observer state to get the economic benefits but why join a military alliance of a superpower when world war 3 clearly shows that neutrality is the best option and joining will only result in us getting nuked like the Philippines sometime in the future
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Great timeline & I really enjoy your writing. But I believe the US in the aftermath is much more likely to be like Germany in the late 1940s. If there are no schools, parents will teach their children to read & although there is widespread devastation, people retain the skills & knowledge of the late 20th century.
Notwithstanding the claims of the anti-nuclear groups, it won't be this bad. Nuclear fission causes fallout, nuclear fusion doesn't really. So if I set off a 1 megaton H-bomb with a 10 kiloton Plutonium bomb, I only get 10 kilotons worth of fallout. So increasing the destruction in a nuclear exchange doesn't exponentially increase the amount of fallout. The ɣ-radiation from the explosion represents 99.99% of the radiation risk, fallout much less so. So many animals will probably die from being direct line-of-sight from an explosion, but those that survive will mainly be ok.
131I is a very specific & interesting case. Iodine is the only chemical element in fission debris for which the body has specific proteins which actively seek to absorb it from the environment. So if a person or animal is deficient in I, they will absorb the 131I from the environment. The total dose is unlikely to be large but it will all accumulate in the thyroid gland so there will be a local peak of activity. This will statistically increase the risk of thyroid cancer & more substantially increase the risk of thyroid failure. For a human being with a doctor, thyroid failure isn't much of a problem. For a wild animal it's likely to prove fatal.
90Sr will sometimes be absorbed accidentally with Ca & 137Cs will sometimes be absorbed accidentally with K. But I don't believe anyone exposed to moderate amounts will absorb even 1/1000th of the natural level of radioactivity from radio-K. Other transition elements & Actinides are so poorly absorbed, I don't think significant absorption will occur. I also don't believe any food will become sufficiently radioactive to be inedible. Again 131I is a problem because it potentially can accumulate in food, but again 127I will prevent absorption. 131 I has a half-life of 8 days, it drops to <1/1000th in 3 months & <1 trillionth in a year.
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This hasn't even seen long update. Pretty standard lenght for OW's writings.
I am bit amazed that Soviets were even able to show even small resistant against rebelling soviet republics. I would had imaginated Russian army being in even worse condition than in OTL but only just from different reasons.
And Zhirinovsky as leader of USSR? That same guy whom BBC called as Russian clown after his OTL death?
Very much like that.
Just wondering what is going in Berlin?
Switzerland was neutral and it zapped in this time line. So being neutral really does not help
That was Austria which got nuked/oofed, not Switzerland, but I see your point.
I'll discuss the underlined points.
1. Wasn't Indonesia pro-Soviet in the 1960s? Especially since the TNI received Tu-16 bombers while the Navy got Soviet cruisers and East German subs? I don't think the U.S. or Britain had plans to attack Indonesia in case surviving Soviet naval units in the South China Sea and the Pacific decide to make harbor there. That probably explains why in OTL that Indonesia has not been marked as a major non-NATO ally of the U.S. but is still a vital partner. Indonesia's place in Southeast Asia is definitely strategic, since every ship that passes through Malacca, Lombok, Makassar, and Sunda has to go through Indonesian territorial waters.
2. Neutrality didn't save Finland, Austria, Switzerland, Ireland, Mexico, and possibly neighboring Singapore (SG took a hit in Protect & Survive China spinoff, the next page mentions that limited strikes also occurred in Malaysia and Indonesia).
Switzerland can still be hit because the Soviets would see it as a potential place for NATO forces to rearm and regroup, even with the policy of armed neutrality and interning aircraft. Plus, Switzerland is a Western-leaning nation, home to Swiss bank accounts, a big economic powerhouse in Central Europe, and has a capable military of reinforcing its Austrian partners.
I have read other nuclear war scenarios where Switzerland chugs a nuke or two. Austria's neutrality won't save it from bombardment either.
I don't understand what you are saying? Did Indonesia got nuked in ww3? No. Switzerland have the bad luck of being landlocked and surrounded by Military Blocs, Indonesia meanwhile survives literally unscathed and didn't got nuked whatsoever. The nature of our geography and the size of our population ensures that invading us is a fools errand, unless you want to turn our area into a mess filled with islamic radicals and revolutionaries. Besides what would people gain by nuking us anyway? Our economy in that time period is piss poor and we don't have any military treaty with anyone.
Neutrality saved most of Africa, it saved most of south America and while limited strikes happened in Indonesia the fact that it didn't mention further proves that probably no major city was hit, i don't understand this stance against neutrality.
If your solution to not getting hit by nuclear attacks in the future is to join a military alliance that will probably get nuked then that's pretty stupid sure Switzerland gets to feel the aftermath of nuclear bombing but Geneva didn't get nuked and most of their major city survived imagine if they joined NATO forget about surviving they will be dead.
Do you even read the title of this timeline? 1983. The communist got purged 500.000 of their people got massacred in the 1960s it got so bad some people called it a genocide the communist party of Indonesia once the third largest in the world got culled to oblivion to the point that it still gets demonized today after the purge we are in no way Soviet leaning.
in fact Suharto our president in 1983 is western learning but he didn't join any military alliance, and look at what happened Indonesia didn't get nuked to oblivion like most western nation and thanks to the fact that Java and Sumatra is extremely fertile famine is going to be unlikely to happen or if it did will not be as severe
Maybe because Africa wasn't worth a nuke. Though are important targets there like Egypt which has the Suez Canal. Libya too might be hit by U.S. or French nukes because it is a thorn to the belly of Europe since Gaddafi is pro-Soviet (on top of the ongoing Chad-Libya War). South Africa also had nukes and while a pariah in 1983, was still firmly in the Western camp. It could also threaten strikes to Angola which the Cubans and Soviets had military personnel. Other places that could eat a nuke would probably be Mozambique, Guinea Bissau, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, or Kenya.
Geneva or Zurich may be targeted by the Soviets if there was an extra nuke to spare. Remember, Soviet nukes were unreliable and inaccurate so that's why the Soviets tend to ovetarget a single city or military base.
So Suharto was already leaning to the West unlike Sukarno which received Soviet military equipment? Still, the Soviets had cordial relations with Indonesia.
What targets do you think might be in Indonesia?
Probably? Nothing. I mean what will the Soviets or Americans get by nuking us anyway? We are neutral, important for trade stability and generally keep to ourselves the ones that will get nuked is probably states like Malaysia, Vietnam, and philliphines because they are either allied with a western power (Commonwealth and America) or naturally opposed one side (Vietnam vs China)
badfishy40
Banned
I believe the Shuttle Columbia was in space during the Nuclear war STS 20 or 21..... hypothetical what could the Shuttle crew do to make a landing? Obviously Cape Canaveral and the California Landing area would be either glassed or filled with fallout,do you think they could land safely in Australia at a major airport? I know the Shuttle had alternate abort landing zones but without NASA control in Houston could they do it themselves?
What importance does Malaysia have to be nuked by the Soviets?
The Philippines will get a strike because the U.S. has military bases there, while Vietnam will taste the might of the Sino-American fist. The Americans would destroy CRB since that Soviet naval base directly faces Subic in the Philippines and it gives access to the South China Sea while the Chinese would obviously want revenge for the 1979 disastrous war.
This Protect & Survive short story spin-off set in Vietnam details it well:
Good Night, Vietnam - A Protect & Survive short story
It was close to midnight, and the sky was clear. The old man, dressed once more in his old uniform, looked towards the north over the city from the rooftop of the office building. The building itself was almost deserted. Most of the civil servants who would normally be on duty at this time...
www.alternatehistory.com
1983: Doomsday had the Salyut 7 crisis. The Soviet cosmonauts landed in Australia where they were interned as enemy civilians before being released.