Seven Days to the River Rhine: the Third World War - a TL

Would the US govt at some point be in any position to take action if it became widely known that US citizens were being taken against their will to near by Nations and or being severely exploited ?

Perhaps that might serve as a catalyst to rebuild the U.S. military ? Or perhaps it might provide an excuse for a subsequent U.S. war of expansion into relatively un contaminated territory ?

I’m thinking other Govts might want to make at least token efforts to suppress organized kidnapping groups and dial down the worst of the exploitation ?
I doubt the United States will have the ability to go to war with anyone until the next century. Its economy is something similar to the emergence of primitive trade.

It has a lot of other problems, like warlords and also religious cults, which I don't know if they were mentioned. It could be worse and go down a route in which they never recovered, and enter a self-destructive vicious cycle.

Besides, a war is not very good in the eyes, the only one that could go to war without being defeated would be Canada. Because Mexico, even with her problems, could resist an invasion.
1. As @Miguel Demiurgos said, the rump U.S. won't be able to go on another foreign venture when it has to deal with its post-WWIII problems at home. The limited resources the U.S. has is better spent on surviving than engaging in a foreign war.

Harsh it may be, those Americans that took the dangerous route to Mexico and Latin America are essentially on their own. Think of the Vietnamese and Indochinese boat people that traveled to Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, and the Philippines on rafts. They were at the risk of pirates and sinking. At least the U.S. Navy was nearby in Subic to lend a hand, but here, there won't be anyone at all.

2. Apart from warlords and cults, they also have to deal with bandits and hostile rogue survivor states that don't want to unite for the common good.

3. Canada is equally trashed because it lost most of the cities in the South and a handful of military bases. If the Soviets chose not to hit Mexico City (50/50 if Mexico will be targeted, since Mexican airports and seaports can be used by the U.S.), it would still need to take care of problems such as millions of Americans crossing the border, the cartels, and the Zapatistas.
 
Thats not how economy works.
If the price of bread is so high that you need to sell your body for *six hours* just to afford it, then no one will be able to afford bread, and the price will collapse back to normal. Either that or everyone are gonna die of hunger because there is no way that people will be able to afford food at all.
If selling your body is not enough, you can be sure that working any other job would also not be enough, so why sell your body at all?
The price of bread will collapse back to normal, or people would move away to a place were food exist.
 
With the Middle East and Africa having little to no nuclear strikes, would there be a resurgence of Islam spreading throughout the surviving areas? Perhaps someday all of surviving Europe/Asia adopting that faith.
While on the other side of the Atlantic, most, if not all, intact nations are of Catholic faith.
So imagine a far future where once again religion splits the world into two camps.

ric350
 
Thats not how economy works.
If the price of bread is so high that you need to sell your body for *six hours* just to afford it, then no one will be able to afford bread, and the price will collapse back to normal. Either that or everyone are gonna die of hunger because there is no way that people will be able to afford food at all.
If selling your body is not enough, you can be sure that working any other job would also not be enough, so why sell your body at all?
The price of bread will collapse back to normal, or people would move away to a place were food exist.
There are many tiers of foods below bread (or rice if you're in east Asia, but that's beside the point). Bread is probably a common reference point between OTL and ITTL.
 
1. As @Miguel Demiurgos said, the rump U.S. won't be able to go on another foreign venture when it has to deal with its post-WWIII problems at home. The limited resources the U.S. has is better spent on surviving than engaging in a foreign war.

Harsh it may be, those Americans that took the dangerous route to Mexico and Latin America are essentially on their own. Think of the Vietnamese and Indochinese boat people that traveled to Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, and the Philippines on rafts. They were at the risk of pirates and sinking. At least the U.S. Navy was nearby in Subic to lend a hand, but here, there won't be anyone at all.

2. Apart from warlords and cults, they also have to deal with bandits and hostile rogue survivor states that don't want to unite for the common good.

3. Canada is equally trashed because it lost most of the cities in the South and a handful of military bases. If the Soviets chose not to hit Mexico City (50/50 if Mexico will be targeted, since Mexican airports and seaports can be used by the U.S.), it would still need to take care of problems such as millions of Americans crossing the border, the cartels, and the Zapatistas.
Yeah, but at some point the U.S. is not going to be pleased about its citizens being removed from the U.S. against their will (if that was actually taking place.)

I could see a surviving U.S. putting a fairly high priority on at least being able to prevent its surviving citizens from being taken away. I doubt they would use nukes as a response but other options might be on the table.

Providing security might go hand in hand with dealing with local war lords (and perhaps might give something else for private armies to do.)

At some point I could also see other nations deciding that suppressing such activity might be in their longer term interests.
 
With the Middle East and Africa having little to no nuclear strikes, would there be a resurgence of Islam spreading throughout the surviving areas? Perhaps someday all of surviving Europe/Asia adopting that faith.
While on the other side of the Atlantic, most, if not all, intact nations are of Catholic faith.
So imagine a far future where once again religion splits the world into two camps.

ric350

I can't see that happening. People just are not going to change their religion. Probably in Europe rises some new religions or then they becomes full-blown atheists since they couldn't stand that God would allow all of that horrors happen.

And even more ridicolous idea is Cold War between religious factions.
 
With the Middle East and Africa having little to no nuclear strikes, would there be a resurgence of Islam spreading throughout the surviving areas? Perhaps someday all of surviving Europe/Asia adopting that faith.
While on the other side of the Atlantic, most, if not all, intact nations are of Catholic faith.
So imagine a far future where once again religion splits the world into two camps.

ric350
Looks at India.....Yeah I don't think so
 
I'm not sure the US can do anything about the human trafficking problem. And when they can, the situation could have escalated to something much bigger.

If they seek to deal with the local warlords they could do two things:

1. Directly to eradicate them, it would be difficult. Many of the warlords would be heavily armed and their population might not like the government either.

2. Negotiate, offer them help in exchange for avoiding human trafficking. This is the one that I will expand on and it also covers point 1.

To tell the truth, human trafficking would actually be run by the Americans themselves. I can see this happening at one point, many of the warlords would kidnap outsiders from their communities in exchange for medicine, food, weapons and ammunition.

Any armed group could do the same. Its main victims will be towns, poorly defended cities and strategic roads.

These guys could very well have ex-military in their ranks and be a mercenary army. Over time the strongest groups will have entrenched in the country and will be guerrilla groups with control of several towns.

Another problem is that with the exception of cities and certain routes to connect the country, the rest is basically a lawless place. The government may well have not just thousands but millions of people out of its control. These people would be dispersed in communities that arose in the first years of the nuclear holocaust, with time and the fact that the government practically abandoned them to their fate, they would become independent.

There could be a whole generation that never knew anything more than their small towns.

These communities will have an economy based on barter and will be like independent city states.

Finally with the damage to the ozone layer, fires can be more frequent and difficult if not impossible to control. Let's not forget about other natural disasters that would fuck up the country even more.
 
Looks at India.....Yeah I don't think so
Well India may not like it, but Hinduism isn’t exactly known for rigorous religious expansionism. Also India is now in a very bad spot trying to feed their population, so I don’t curtailing the expanse of Islam, at least for the near future, would not be high on their list of things to do.
In addition, blame for the war could be placed at the feet of Christian nations (yes Soviet Russia would be viewed as Christian regardless of what Marx said). So Islam could say something along the lines of the Christian world was punished by God. I could see the desperate and despondent survivors thinking that made a lot of sense. Theres nothing like a cataclysm to bring people to religion.

ric350
 
And even more ridicolous idea is Cold War between religious factions.
Hmmm yeah I can’t think of a single time when the “old world” was split along religious lines, with both sides at each others throats philosophically and literally.

In fact I can’t think of any other social or economic pretext that humans continue to spill each others blood over, more than religion.

ric350
 
Well India may not like it, but Hinduism isn’t exactly known for rigorous religious expansionism. Also India is now in a very bad spot trying to feed their population, so I don’t curtailing the expanse of Islam, at least for the near future, would not be high on their list of things to do.
In addition, blame for the war could be placed at the feet of Christian nations (yes Soviet Russia would be viewed as Christian regardless of what Marx said). So Islam could say something along the lines of the Christian world was punished by God. I could see the desperate and despondent survivors thinking that made a lot of sense. Theres nothing like a cataclysm to bring people to religion.

ric350
India was self sufficient in food by the late sixties. It was one of Indira's great accomplishments if not her greatest. Even with the loss of foreign imports India will come out okay. The Middle East on the other is far, far more dependent of foreign imports. Countries like the Gulf states,SA, Libya etc are in for a much worse time. Also you're seriously underestimating Hinduism's
resilience.

A religious revival is certainly possible but I'd expect it more in formerly communist nations.
 
Apart from the religious war, what happens with the culture?

The holocaust basically left all of Europe in the third world for perhaps centuries, with few exceptions. And at this point the only Western nations are mostly Latinos.

I think the language that benefited the most from this is Spanish, it came out practically intact with most of its nations not being bombed and it became a place that receives immigrants in droves.

On the other hand, the English were severely hit with the two main powers sent to the Middle Ages and only Australia remaining as a representative.

In a way he asked me at what technological level is the world. It would be nice to have little stories of people from this world.
 
Apart from the religious war, what happens with the culture?

The holocaust basically left all of Europe in the third world for perhaps centuries, with few exceptions. And at this point the only Western nations are mostly Latinos.

I think the language that benefited the most from this is Spanish, it came out practically intact with most of its nations not being bombed and it became a place that receives immigrants in droves.

On the other hand, the English were severely hit with the two main powers sent to the Middle Ages and only Australia remaining as a representative.

In a way he asked me at what technological level is the world. It would be nice to have little stories of people from this world.
Religious war is a very long stretch.

However I'd disagree that English will lose it's status as the world's lingua franca. It's too late for that though I do agree Spanish and Portuguese will be more prominent than OTL
 
English is indeed going to be global lingua franca. Yes, USA and Britain are not anymore great powers but Australia and New Zealand are rising their own prominence. Furthermore English is widely used in former British colonies. And many people around the world speak English as their second language.
 
It is true, but probably the number of people who speak English will drop, as well as the level. The cultural engine of the West will also change in favor of Latin countries, they are not the only ones but they are the majority and they will seek to expand their culture.

On the other hand, the USA is interesting, they are a huge country but they have a population submerged in poverty and with a lot of guerrillas scattered throughout its vast territory. Much of its population probably wants to immigrate to Australia, but it is too far away so they prefer to go to Latin countries in search of greater security. Maybe they are looking for safe South American countries than Mexico or Colombia.

That makes me wonder if Spanish or Portuguese will become popular in the US.
 
Apart from the religious war, what happens with the culture?

The holocaust basically left all of Europe in the third world for perhaps centuries, with few exceptions. And at this point the only Western nations are mostly Latinos.

I think the language that benefited the most from this is Spanish, it came out practically intact with most of its nations not being bombed and it became a place that receives immigrants in droves.

On the other hand, the English were severely hit with the two main powers sent to the Middle Ages and only Australia remaining as a representative.

In a way he asked me at what technological level is the world. It would be nice to have little stories of people from this world.
And New Zealand, as well as India (although the Indians might eventually ditch the English as lingua franca, or at least gradually replace it with another... or they may not, because using one of their own local languages as lingua franca might annoy the other ethnic groups of the subcontinent), Ireland (although again, the Irish might revert back to being primarily Gaelic speakers eventually) and South Africa (at least the Anglo community would remain English-speaking, even if the Afrikaaners, Blacks and other ethnic/racial groups eventually abandon it).
Of course, without the worldwide influence of US (and British) media, the local versions of English (in Australia, NZ, India, Ireland...) might also turn into more and more separate dialects, but such a process would take decades at least.

English has taken a major beating but is still a major language.

On the other hand, I would expect the French language to lose its importance. The countries of former French Africa would probably gradually stop teaching French to their kids, because the economical, political and cultural (and military) influence of France is completely gone. And the new lingua franca(s) in West and Central Africa might be the Spanish and/or Portuguese, because Latin America is going to be the newest economical center of the western hemisphere, relatively close to West and Central Africa. And/or Arab, because of the Maghrebi growing influence in Subsaharan Africa. Probably a competition between Arab, Spanish and Portuguese actually.

And of course, France itself, as well as Wallonia and Quebec, have been throughly wrecked by WWIII. Only Switzerland (well, Romandy or Suisse Romande) was untouched.

Spanish will do very well indeed, as Latin America is nearly intact (I believe that only Cuba and Panama were nuked), and Spain itself only took two nukes and is now poised to be one of the great regional powers by default in Europe (as the Spaniards have a bigger population and economy that Ireland, Sweden, Finland, Switzerland or Yugoslavia). Portuguese will also do well, with Brazil, Angola and Mozambique being all intact, and Brazilian economical influence being about to deploy itself in Africa thanks to geography.

German will become a minor language, as Germany and Austria are more or less a big dead zone, with small pockets of survivors here and there. And even if those survivors created a confederacy, in practice, transportation and communication difficulties (with mostly no electricity, no major roads, railways and airplanes) mean that those survivor German states might end up developing separate dialects that are significantly different, to the point of being labeled as separate (if close cousin) languages. And of course, German-speaking communities in the USA, Eastern Europe, Russia and Belgium would be mostly dead.

Likewise, Italian would be a minor language, with the Italian diaspora in North America being mostly dead, Italy wrecked (which might also lead to separate very distinct dialects emerging across the Italian peninsula). And the reconstruction of Italy will probably come with support/investment from Spain and Maghreb, which means that survivor communities in Italy who get contact with the outside world might end up learning Arabic and/or Spanish as a second language, leading to the dialects of Italy absorbing a lot of Arabic and Spanish borrowed words.

Balkan and Eastern Europe countries other than Yugoslavia would probably go through a similar process, with scattered communities developing dialects, and linguistic influence from Yugoslavia (ie. Serbian language), at least in places that get some trade with abroad.
Actually, since Yugoslavia is already a multi-ethnic and multi-religious federal country, I can see it slowly expanding, integrating communities of survivors (in Greece, Bulgaria, Hungary and Romania), and benefiting from the wealth of mineral resources in the Balkans, as well as an access to a wide coast in the Adriatic, Med and Black Sea.

Russian language would be abandoned by every diaspora (or school second language learners) outside of Russia, because Russia would be universally hated for the WWIII.
 
That's what I mean, English will continue to be the lingua franca. But it will lose a lot of power without the mass media.

There may also be another determining factor, the Internet. If in the Latin American Union the Internet is the place where it becomes popular, the first sites will be in Spanish/Portuguese and from there the social networks can become popular. Although it also depends on the technological level, we still don't know if they created the first smartphone in 2020 or 2030.
 
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