Q-Bam Historical Map Thread

[OxSpace]

WIP for my Great Qing patch, if anyone knows, I can't quite figure out what level of subdivision the Tibetan Kingdoms/Chiefdoms are. Should they be a totally separate one like American native reserves, or? I'm not sure if they're de-jure under direct administration of the Qing province they overlap with, or if they are completely separate from the traditional subdivisions of the Qing government.

 

[James the AH Fan]

I can't quite figure out what level of subdivision the Tibetan Kingdoms/Chiefdoms are.

The Chiefdoms were de jure independent from Beijing but were de facto similar to Native American reservations.

 

[Masked Grizzly]

Has anyone done a Q-BAM on Paraguay's territorial claims (also here) with its neighbors prior to the War of the Triple Alliance as well as this interesting and potentially plausible aftermath of an ATL Paraguayan victory scenario?

 

[CHKeeley]

A small bit of additional progress on the 1918 map (with an updated color scheme largely borrowed from @Admiral A. Kolchak's KAPHYD-KOS). It's a good color scheme and I like how it looks, although I might revert back to some of my older color choices for some nations like the Ober-Ost like Courland and Lithuania, as well as some of the Cossack hosts. Next portion I'll add to is the White factions of the Russian Civil War and an overhaul of the Soviet map presence since I suspect the actual areas of control to be far more complicated then presented - this is another matter but I've always wished there was a decent way of representing zones outside of direct state control that also looked aesthetically pleasing and coherent, I'll experiment with this. Also intend to get rid of the ahistorical dams in the Soviet Union, Africa, etc. and attempt to locate some subdivisions for occupied Serbia, Romania, and Greece before proceeding.

 

[Linbot]

A small bit of additional progress on the 1918 map (with an updated color scheme largely borrowed from @Admiral A. Kolchak's KAPHYD-KOS). It's a good color scheme and I like how it looks, although I might revert back to some of my older color choices for some nations like the Ober-Ost like Courland and Lithuania, as well as some of the Cossack hosts.

I legitimately thought nobody remembered it and it was firmly lost in the bowels of the map forums. Really nice to see someone using it.

 

[Linbot]

WIP for my Great Qing patch, if anyone knows, I can't quite figure out what level of subdivision the Tibetan Kingdoms/Chiefdoms are. Should they be a totally separate one like American native reserves, or? I'm not sure if they're de-jure under direct administration of the Qing province they overlap with, or if they are completely separate from the traditional subdivisions of the Qing government.

Oh, uh, coincidentally as the person who made the youtube video I assume you're basing this off of, I can confirm that the small Tibetan kingdoms are managed at the provincial level and are part of the province they overlap with.

 

[Linbot]

But the same phenomenon happens when overlayed on the Improvement Thread's China subdivisions since Boris seems to be using those

I even made sure and checked my gis file with modern subdivisions and they are indeed the same in most places

So either someone drew the Chinese modern subdivisions from guessing or my georeference/photoshop warp is completely bonkers.

So I'm not sure which it is?

Your photoshop skills are correct, the QBAM's Chinese subdivisions have annoyed me to no end as everyone uses them and they look disgusting.

 

[OxSpace]

Oh, uh, coincidentally as the person who made the youtube video I assume you're basing this off of, I can confirm that the small Tibetan kingdoms are managed at the provincial level and are part of the province they overlap with.

Well, I also saved an older map you made a while back, I wasn't sure which one to use so I used your more recent version. Unless there was a huge change in autonomy/independence of these Kingdoms/Chiefdoms in the 19th century? Some of the Tibetan kingdoms don't perfectly line up with the Qing provinces, I assume that this is fine.

Your photoshop skills are correct, the QBAM's Chinese subdivisions have annoyed me to no end as everyone uses them and they look disgusting.

Cool cool, because I already winged it lol

 

[Linbot]

Well, I also saved an older map you made a while back, I wasn't sure which one to use so I used your more recent version. Unless there was a huge change in autonomy/independence of these Kingdoms/Chiefdoms in the 19th century? Some of the Tibetan kingdoms don't perfectly line up with the Qing provinces, I assume that this is fine.

Cool cool, because I already winged it lol

I'd honestly advise you to show the Ngolok tribes and the tribes in southwestern Qinghai as independent since the Qing didn't actually have any control over them. And as far as I know, Maqu County was not part of Qinghai, in spite of what I see on a lot of maps. Otherwise this looks good. The provincial boundaries in China proper still look kind of wrong to me but it's not as cursed as the regular QBAM so I'm fine with it. One other thing, between 1912 and 1770, an area equivalent to modern Shizong County, Qiubei County, Wenshan County, Yanshan County, Guangnan County, and Funing County, were part of Guangxi and not Yunnan. Also, before 1865, Nyarong was divided into three chiefdoms which were managed by Sichuan, and only in 1865 did Tibet conquer the area.

 

[OxSpace]

I'd honestly advise you to show the Ngolok tribes and the tribes in southwestern Qinghai as independent since the Qing didn't actually have any control over them. And as far as I know, Maqu County was not part of Qinghai, in spite of what I see on a lot of maps. Otherwise this looks good. The provincial boundaries in China proper still look kind of wrong to me but it's not as cursed as the regular QBAM so I'm fine with it. One other thing, between 1912 and 1770, an area equivalent to modern Shizong County, Qiubei County, Wenshan County, Yanshan County, Guangnan County, and Funing County, were part of Guangxi and not Yunnan. Also, before 1865, Nyarong was divided into three chiefdoms which were managed by Sichuan, and only in 1865 did Tibet conquer the area.

Does this seem right?

The red border being the area you described, though every map I've seen and the GIS file says otherwise, but I'll trust you.

EDIT:
Also, do you happen to know anything about this:

This is the only map I see Altan Nuur mentioned as a Russo-Qing Condominium.

 

[DaniCBP]

Im working on a more accurate 1885, and this is how sub-saharan Africa is looking rn. I hope in a few days I might be able to finish it, and since Africa is often a difficut place to map, I wanted to share the progress. (I still have to mark some borders, I know).

 

[Xasper H.]

Got distracted while mapping 1920 and decided to make a patch for the Chiapas conflict as of April this year, unless that's already been done

 

[Linbot]

Does this seem right?

The red border being the area you described, though every map I've seen and the GIS file says otherwise, but I'll trust you.

EDIT:
Also, do you happen to know anything about this:

This is the only map I see Altan Nuur mentioned as a Russo-Qing Condominium.

Ah, I'm terribly sorry, I was wrong about Maqu County, I just checked and it was part of Qinghai until 1928, I have no idea how I forgot about that. Sorry!

As for Altan Nuur Uriankhai, I think from the 1820s onwards the Chuy River basin was occupied by the Russians, and from 1864 onwards the entirety of Altan Nur Uriankhai was. I can't find any evidence for a condominium existing.

 

[OxSpace]

Ah, I'm terribly sorry, I was wrong about Maqu County, I just checked and it was part of Qinghai until 1928, I have no idea how I forgot about that. Sorry!

As for Altan Nuur Uriankhai, I think from the 1820s onwards the Chuy River basin was occupied by the Russians, and from 1864 onwards the entirety of Altan Nur Uriankhai was. I can't find any evidence for a condominium existing.

Alright, how is the Yunnan border? I sort of just guessed based on the area you described because I couldn't find any reference.

 

[Linbot]

Alright, how is the Yunnan border? I sort of just guessed based on the area you described because I couldn't find any reference.

Yeah that looks good.

 

[OxSpace]

 

[CHKeeley]

Some progress including overhauled subdivisions in some European states, a fix for the situation in the Caucasus depicting the formation of the Volunteer Army in the Kuban and the German backed Menshevik regime in Georgia properly. The broader part of White Russia needs to be fixed to reflect the disorganized/committee-like nature of Siberia prior to Kolchak's coup d'etat as well as things like the Bolshevik presence in places like Yakutia (still not sure how to represent this - showing administration over the entire region is pretty inaccurate). I also made a few edits that I'm unsure about, for example making Belarussia simply an occupation zone because the Germans had no organized puppet government in mind for the region by late July, 1918. Ukraine was edited to accurately reflect the German occupation zone in Kherson Governorate still being a part of Skoropadsky's Ukraine rather than a solely German territory. Same goes for the Crimea, and now it shows the semi-independent Crimean Regional Government. Persia needs some fixing as well to reflect British occupation of vast portions of the country and Ottoman occupation of Tabriz and north-western Persia. Still trying to locate some decent subdivisions for Serbia and Montenegro in this period. China is gonna be a lot of work, so I think I'll be tackling Africa, Arabia, and South Asia next.

 

[DaniCBP]

Update on 1885 Africa:

It is nearly finished, I just need to fix some little things.
Also, a question: Should I mark the borders between all nations? For example, the border between the Senussi and the Wadai, or the Ethiopian-Sudanese one?
As of now, I'm marking the stablished borders (between european colonies, north african states or the Boer ones) with the normal black, while the borders between native states or native-colonial ones are marked with a different tone.

 

[Analytical Engine]

Update on 1885 Africa:
View attachment 603013
It is nearly finished, I just need to fix some little things.
Also, a question: Should I mark the borders between all nations? For example, the border between the Senussi and the Wadai, or the Ethiopian-Sudanese one?
As of now, I'm marking the stablished borders (between european colonies, north african states or the Boer ones) with the normal black, while the borders between native states or native-colonial ones are marked with a different tone.

I would suggest keep the well-established settled borders.

 

[Bob Hope]

View attachment 602277
A small bit of additional progress on the 1918 map (with an updated color scheme largely borrowed from @Admiral A. Kolchak's KAPHYD-KOS). It's a good color scheme and I like how it looks, although I might revert back to some of my older color choices for some nations like the Ober-Ost like Courland and Lithuania, as well as some of the Cossack hosts. Next portion I'll add to is the White factions of the Russian Civil War and an overhaul of the Soviet map presence since I suspect the actual areas of control to be far more complicated then presented - this is another matter but I've always wished there was a decent way of representing zones outside of direct state control that also looked aesthetically pleasing and coherent, I'll experiment with this. Also intend to get rid of the ahistorical dams in the Soviet Union, Africa, etc. and attempt to locate some subdivisions for occupied Serbia, Romania, and Greece before proceeding.

I do like the addition of colour outlines for the Island groups. Hope you don't mind if I use this at some stage.