Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Aghasverov

Aghasverov

James the AH Fan said:
I actually don't know what the frontiers would have been, so could I get a description of them?
Click to expand...
This is the link Wikipedia provides:
books.google.com

Imperial Rivals

Based on archival research, this is a history of the Russo-Chinese border which examines Russia's expansion into the Asian heartland during the decades of Chinese decline and the 20th-century paradox of Russia's inability to sustain political and economic sway over its domains.
books.google.com

Haven't checked the rest of the link to see if there's a map tucked in there somewhere...
 
James the AH Fan

James the AH Fan

The Treaty of Radnot, signed on December 6, 1656, was meant to formally partition Poland-Lithuania after the Second Northern War. According to the treaty:
  • Sweden was to receive Royal Prussia, Kujawy, northern Masovia, Samogitia, Courland and Inflanty.
  • Bogusław Radziwiłł was to receive the Nowogrodek Voivodeship.
  • Brandenburg to receive Greater Poland.
  • The Cossack Hetmanate would receive a large portion of south-east Poland.
  • The rest would be given to the prince of Transylvania.
1608092649781.png


In addition, Bogusław Radziwiłł's claims at the treaty:
1608092708321.png


Now, the fate of Lithuania Proper was uncertain, and from what I can infer, was to be possibly a Swedish vassal or completely independent.
Treaty of Iernut.png
 
Last edited:
Aghasverov

Aghasverov

James the AH Fan said:
The Treaty of Radnot, signed on December 6, 1656, was meant to formally partition Poland-Lithuania after the Second Northern War. According to the treaty:
  • Sweden was to receive Royal Prussia, Kujawy, northern Masovia, Samogitia, Courland and Inflanty.
  • Bogusław Radziwiłł was to receive the Nowogrodek Voivodeship.
  • Brandenburg to receive Greater Poland.
  • The Cossack Hetmanate would receive a large portion of south-east Poland.
  • The rest would be given to the prince of Transylvania.
View attachment 608217

In addition, Bogusław Radziwiłł's claims at the treaty:
View attachment 608218

Now, the fate of Lithuania Proper was uncertain, and from what I can infer, was to be possibly a Swedish vassal or completely independent.
View attachment 608219
Click to expand...
Isn't Boguslaw the one Lithuanians still refer to as "the Louse" :p
 
Aghasverov

Aghasverov

James the AH Fan said:
The Treaty of Radnot, signed on December 6, 1656, was meant to formally partition Poland-Lithuania after the Second Northern War. According to the treaty:
  • Sweden was to receive Royal Prussia, Kujawy, northern Masovia, Samogitia, Courland and Inflanty.
  • Bogusław Radziwiłł was to receive the Nowogrodek Voivodeship.
  • Brandenburg to receive Greater Poland.
  • The Cossack Hetmanate would receive a large portion of south-east Poland.
  • The rest would be given to the prince of Transylvania.
View attachment 608217

In addition, Bogusław Radziwiłł's claims at the treaty:
View attachment 608218

Now, the fate of Lithuania Proper was uncertain, and from what I can infer, was to be possibly a Swedish vassal or completely independent.
View attachment 608219
Click to expand...
If you don't mind me asking, what was the source of the 2nd map above (the one with the Polish and English captions?) The evolution of the external and interior borders of Lithuania and the PLC are particularly interesting to me, I'd love to see more from that series :)
(it says Fig. 20, so I assume there are others....)
 
Nyegosh

Nyegosh

B_Munro said:
Won't work nowadays: the Macedonian Slavs would keep insisting they're Macedonians, because they know if they agreed to be western Bulgarians, the Greeks would put on this really smug expression.
Click to expand...

We can blame the Ottomans for this. After 1804 identifying yourself as a Serb anywhere within the Ottoman Empire territory that isn't the Serbian autonomous area was basically a death sentence. To the Ottomans it basically became a synonym for terrorist
 

xmoose

Analytical Engine said:
The first map suggested that Warmia (and Danzig too, from the looks of it) was to go to Brandenburg as well. You seem to have given Ducal Prussia to Sweden for some reason, even though it was in personal-union with Brandenburg at the time.
Click to expand...
Yup. On the other hand, wether is first map historically accurate or not, that Prussia, surrounded by Sweden which territories are surrounded by Prussian (_Brandenburg) territories... thats terrible :D
And wouldn´t Radziwill keep all of Lithuania (ok, I mean at least its core terr.? as sweden vassal or something like that...? or maybe I read too much Sienkiewicz :D)
But thanks @James the AH Fan for maps!
 
Pen

Pen

James the AH Fan said:
I actually don't know what the frontiers would have been, so could I get a description of them?
Click to expand...
From wiki:

  1. Russia would return a portion of Xinjiang to China, keeping the western Ili Valley and the Tekes River – ensuring that Russia would have access to the southern portion of Xinjiang
  2. In the lands that were being returned, Russia would retain any property rights it had established during the occupation
  3. Any of the Dungan people who rebelled could choose to become Russian citizens, and those who did not would not be punished for their activities during the rebellion
  4. Russia was given the right to open seven new consulates in Xinjiang and Mongolia
  5. Russia could engage in trade without duties in Xinjiang and Mongolia
  6. Russian merchants were given access to trade routes extending as far as Beijing and Hankou on the Yangtze
  7. China would pay an indemnity of five million rubles to cover Russia's occupation costs and property losses
 

FancyHat

Pen said:
From wiki:

  1. Russia would return a portion of Xinjiang to China, keeping the western Ili Valley and the Tekes River – ensuring that Russia would have access to the southern portion of Xinjiang
  2. In the lands that were being returned, Russia would retain any property rights it had established during the occupation
  3. Any of the Dungan people who rebelled could choose to become Russian citizens, and those who did not would not be punished for their activities during the rebellion
  4. Russia was given the right to open seven new consulates in Xinjiang and Mongolia
  5. Russia could engage in trade without duties in Xinjiang and Mongolia
  6. Russian merchants were given access to trade routes extending as far as Beijing and Hankou on the Yangtze
  7. China would pay an indemnity of five million rubles to cover Russia's occupation costs and property losses
Click to expand...
I thought these were the terms of the treaty that was actually signed.
 

xmoose

James the AH Fan said:
The Treaty of Radnot, signed on December 6, 1656, was meant to formally partition Poland-Lithuania after the Second Northern War. According to the treaty:
  • Sweden was to receive Royal Prussia, Kujawy, northern Masovia, Samogitia, Courland and Inflanty.
  • Bogusław Radziwiłł was to receive the Nowogrodek Voivodeship.
  • Brandenburg to receive Greater Poland.
  • The Cossack Hetmanate would receive a large portion of south-east Poland.
  • The rest would be given to the prince of Transylvania.
View attachment 608217

In addition, Bogusław Radziwiłł's claims at the treaty:
View attachment 608218

Now, the fate of Lithuania Proper was uncertain, and from what I can infer, was to be possibly a Swedish vassal or completely independent.
View attachment 608219
Click to expand...
Btw do we have something similar concering Charles XII goals in 1700 northern war?
(aside of Lesczynski as king of Poland, Holstein-Gottorp and Mazepas Ukraine, what were Sweden aims? Anything else, beside (possibly) these and, most importantly, survival? :D)
 
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