As I understand it the Russian Far East (for lack of a better term; it's what most of that area was back then and is right now) had a significant Korean population, at least in the late 19th century, so it's not totally baseless.@Crying wont be second map more like Greater Manchuria? (at least in geographic sense... population wise it may have more koreans, or chinese, than manchus...)
Otherwise, thanks! Hopefully I use it one day
Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread
- Thread starter Beedok
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Tonight I learned that Katanga almost joined the Central African Federation around 1960:
Edit 1: And later, Mozambique was considered too:
Not only would this enlarged Central African Federation be a regional power, but a "brother" to Apartheid South Africa.
Edit 2: "Brother" as in being implored internationally for its treatment of Blacks.
Edit 1: And later, Mozambique was considered too:
Not only would this enlarged Central African Federation be a regional power, but a "brother" to Apartheid South Africa.
Edit 2: "Brother" as in being implored internationally for its treatment of Blacks.
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And a map of what that would look like for 1960 in the wake of Congolese independence (and assuming South Kasai secessionism somewhat supported by the Belgians as in OTL):
Seems such an enlarged CAF could have also gained sea access had the Portuguese in South Mozambique been able to establish a state roughly south of the Limpopo River (dubbed Laurentina).
This is the closest Japanese proposal of what should be done to Siberia east of the Urals that I've seen, I already asked this here last year, but other than mentions of occupying Soviet territory as far as Irktusk, making a demilitarized line west of lake Baikal, and putting Japanese settlers in Siberia while simultaneously having some sort of Russian self-rule, there's nothing clearly mentioning if Japan intended to set up a White Russian puppet state or annex the whole thing altogether after the war, is it? are there any mentions about it?So, the Black Dragon Society were Japanese (ultra)-nationalists, but they also genuinely believed in Pan-Asianism. Japan would be the first among equals of course, but for them Pan-Asianism wasn't just a turn of phrase to justify Japan imperializing the rest of Asia.
In 1907 they suggested Japan create an uber-Korea as an ally...
...but that obviously didn't pan out. In 1923 they pushed for the creation of a Japanese puppet state in the Russian Far-East, that would have been populated largely by Korean settlers and may have even had the former Korean royal family as heads of state.
Sources: 大正日日新聞, March-April 1926, https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/kokusaiseiji1957/1982/71/1982_71_93/_article/-char/ja/, I also have access to a .pdf if anyone can read Japanese and wants to verify themselves.
I understand that Axis objectives were inconsistent and plans changed as time went on, these two are from 1907 and 1926, and by 1942 there were radical changes, if some Japanese figures wanted to annex Siberia in the 1920s, then they would have probably had changed ideas by the time Kantokuen was being planned.
Anyone also has any sources if Japan intended to give the pre-1860 Outer Manchuria territory back to Manchukuo? since giving back stolen Manchu land would be a good propaganda move, the Black Dragon Society wished for Japan to annex territory east of the Amur River, North Sakhalin, and Kamchatka, so Manchukuo would've looked like this minus the space in red, perhaps only sources in Japanese mention this.
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Hmm, interesting. But I don't think Japan planned to reverse the Treaty of Aigun for Manchuria.This is the closest Japanese proposal of what should be done to Siberia east of the Urals that I've seen, I already asked this here last year, but other than mentions of occupying Soviet territory as far as Irktusk, making a demilitarized line west of lake Baikal, and putting Japanese settlers in Siberia while simultaneously having some sort of Russian self-rule, there's nothing clearly mentioning if Japan intended to set up a White Russian puppet state or annex the whole thing altogether after the war.
I understand that Axis objectives were inconsistent and plans changed as time went on, these two are from 1907 and 1926, and by 1942 there were radical changes, if some Japanese figures wanted to annex Siberia in the 1920s, then they would have probably had changed ideas by the time Kantokuen was being planned.
Anyone also has any sources if Japan intended to give the pre-1860 Outer Manchuria territory back to Manchukuo? since giving back stolen Manchu land would be a good propaganda move, the Black Dragon Society wished for Japan to annex territory east of the Amur River, North Sakhalin, and Kamchatka, so Manchukuo would've looked like this minus the space in red, perhaps only sources in Japanese mention this.
Alright, I edited my post again, I was asking if there are any sources that mention whenever if Japan wished to form a Russian Puppet state or annex Siberia altogether, not that I made clear that there weren't such plans, there maybe are but I didn't find them yet, they're very likely only in Japanese language sources.
Well Japan wanted to make Siberia a puppet and put Japanese settlers in it. Download Totentanz0's source document on his DeviantArt to see what I mean.
That's exactly where I'm getting my sources from! but there are so many conflicting proposals from various time periods that ultimately, it's up for the reader to imagine which one was more likely to have been carried out, the way that I use to discern whenever if plans were likely to be carried out or not are proposals that are made by less important elements rather than high-ranking figures, such as Rosenberg's plans to partition Russia, which was his own personal project that was not accepted by Hitler or anyone else.
There are also some very brief mentions of establishing Green Ukraine and even an independent Yakutia as Japanese-aligned states, but these proposals are from during the Russian Civil War rather than WWII, and they came from Ukrainian and Yakut exiles, rather than Japanese leadership themselves.
Sources:
Green Ukraine - Twentieth-Century Ukraine by Clarence Augustus Manning (1951)
Yakutia - A History of the Peoples of Siberia: Russia's North Asian Colony 1581-1990 by James Forsyth (1992)
Yeah, Japan didn't really have post-war plans in the same way Nazi Germany did. Individual people or groups had proposals, sure, but there nothing was really planned out - they just kind of made shit up as they went along. Japan was kind of flying by the seat of their pants for all of WW2 tbh.
Eh, Malaysia and Indonesia can work, but Philippines are their own thing really. Heck, even in Indonesia everyone speaks whatever the local language is, and uses Malay as a lingua franca
The Philippines do seem too culturally distinct (not to mention Catholic, where Indonesia and Malaysia are majority Muslim) to really be comfortable with a union like that in the long term. Although the Moros, at least, might prefer Greater Indonesia to the Philippines.
Yeah, the Moros.
Indonesia will probably Malayize all the minorities.
Malaysia proper seems to be the bigger issue, with it's... weird political system (why the fuck doesn't a single former British colony have a system of government that isn't a basket case?) and mandatory ethnic-exclusive shariah.
Indonesia will probably Malayize all the minorities.
Malaysia proper seems to be the bigger issue, with it's... weird political system (why the fuck doesn't a single former British colony have a system of government that isn't a basket case?) and mandatory ethnic-exclusive shariah.
actually, it just so happens that i recently found some interesting information on Wikipedia on what the end-goal for the Co-Prosperity Sphere was, including what they eventually planned to do with Australia
Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere - Wikipedia
actually, it just so happens that i recently found some interesting information on Wikipedia on what the end-goal for the Co-Prosperity Sphere was, including what they eventually planned to do with Australia
Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
We had a full map done a while back of their territorial ambitions.
Wouldn't Indonesia (minus the Riau Islands) be a separate GEACPS state? in Totentanz0's source dump there are also numerous mentions that Sumatra and Java would be de-jure part of an Indonesian state but de-facto controlled by Japan, I'm not sure if this is supposed to mean that they'd be some sort of Japanese-Indonesian condominium or the puppet of a puppet state, as in a Japanese prefecture that is in theory part of Indonesia.
But again, plans change, Japan also originally intended to annex the Philippines, but then opted to make it another Manchukuo.
Tojo really must have been on crack when he thought Japanese Colombia and the Caribbean were plausible territorial ambitions...