Of lost monkeys and broken vehicles

[The Undead Martyr]

There are precedents St Dominic in Cordoba was split with half being a church and half a mosque for about 70 years, then was taken over completely by the Muslims. And the church of the Nativity has a part used for Muslim prayer for the past 14 centuries, the part doesn't even have icons to e more accomodating to the Muslims. Of course this has not been decreed by political decision...



Any major POD in WW1 is bound to have severe effects. Changing Greece and Turkey around late1920 will of course have its own effects but trends like the rise of the Nazis in Germany? That particular train wreck is too difficult derail.



Why it looks like a good nice compromise... at the time of decision.



At this point the Italian zone has about 54,000 Greeks and 238,000 Turks. The Dodecanese has about 102,000 more Greeks and maybe 2-3,000 Turks. The Greeks in the mainland are also heavily concentrated in certain areas, over half are in Soke district, right in the border between Greek Ionia and the Italian zone and another 20,000 are in the Makri/Fethiye, Halicaranasus/Bodrum and Miletus/Milas districts.



That's something that needs to be dealt with when the time comes. But the first time to happen is in 1974 when the third day of the Kurban bayram coincides with the Theophany in January 6th and the the first day of the next Kurban bayram coincides with Christmas. Interesting year...



Of course the iconography will be uncovered. Why it's a museum remember? How the Muslims deal with it? His majesty the not quite sultan has put curtains I believe this year...



I actually have a pretty good idea what happens to both Panionios and Apollon. AEK and PAOK... why they do not exist, their parent A.S.P. (Athlitikos Syllogos Peran) the Pera Sports Club is very much around. What I'm actually not certain about is... Olympiakos (and Ethnikos). Its parents Peiraikos Syndesmos and Peiraiki Enosi are still very much around and their football teams are due to unite to the APS Piraeus (Athlitikos Podosfairikos sullogos Peiraios) in late 1923. But why this one broke up into Olympiakos and Ethnikos within a year afterwards?



The Blue mosque is still very much under Turkish control and in operation. As is Fatih and Suleymaniye of course. Some Greeks would probably want to see Fatih turned to a church as it's built in the place of the demolished Holy Apostles but any such ideas were rejected out of hand by saner heads, the Greek government included.

Nazi Germany is sort of too contingent but also with a fair bit of momentum behind it. I mean if Hitler got cancer or something maybe Strasser or whoever would take over, which would put a very different spin on things; to say nothing of Ludendorff or Hindenburg or someone else trying to institute a military dictatorship. And even assuming butterflies, can we say that from 1920 we still get Munich- the successful Sickle Cut through Belgium- and everything else? That would strain credulity IMO; it isn't impossible and if that is the goal of a story ("what if Megali Greece was in WWII") then there's nothing wrong with saying that the dominoes fall the same way, but that comes down to what you as an author want to get out of the story; for myself I tend to take a more... chaotic approach. That means more work and an easy risk of burnout, but also more freedom and at times more fun. In the end it comes down to what you're trying to do.

In any case I'd say that Italy is the most obviously affected, along with the Balkans generally. If we still get the whole train, Great Depression -> Hitler -> Ethiopia -> embargo on Italy -> Axis -> Tripartate Pact -> WWII, then there are two big differences- OTL the Italians traded a lot with the USSR to make up for the British and French embargo; if Greece decided to stick her nose in more forcefully then that route might be affected. More to the point if we still get an invasion of Greece (not guaranteed, IMO, but not impossible) then that drags in the Turks and might well trigger a USSR response, as the Dardanelles are strategically sensitive enough to probably cause Stalin to react more baldly to an Axis occupation. Perhaps Stalin listens to the warnings about Barbarossa... or launches a pre-emptive assault. I think that the Corfu Incident is likely averted regardless, probably replaced by some crisis over Dalmatia or Albania instead, as the Greeks are a bit too strong for a newly ensconced Mussolini to feel comfortable picking on IMO.

 

[Salvador79]

1974, eh? Probably not so urgent then.

I must vehemently disagree with the Statement that a Nazi takeover was railroaded by, say, 1922...
But I should not derail a good thread.

 

[cmakk1012]

I also disagree that Nazis are inevitable with a PoD this early on. Hitler could die in the Putsch or in prison, for instance, and with him gone early on it would likely derail the Nazis’ specific OTL rise to power.

Germany falling to right wing nationalism and authoritarianism in general, though, that is pretty well likely. There’s a small chance of it falling to left wing authoritarianism, and an even smaller chance of democracy somehow staying the course, but overall something like the Nazis is almost inevitable.

 

[goumaister]

I would I agree with many of the posts here about a not certain Nazi rise but then you have no WW2 and were is the fun in that? You could have all the West ally against the Soviets but that is fairly unlikely cause the West even in OTL with Hitler's aggression weren't keen on war son if the Nazis don't rise then likely there is no WW2 ,in my opinion at least, so I support this TL going with a Nazi rise.

Also I wanted to say some time now about the Greek economic miracle that is about to start. Greece would likely be way more focused on industry rather that reclamation cause unlike OTL this Greece has enough land now to not spend that much capital on land reclamations . Sure there still would be some reclamation but not close enough to OTL. I expect Greece to be almost two times stronger economically and militarily around 1940 ITTL compared to ours and with a bigger population due to less people dying and less immigration. Also politically Greece would be way more liberal than conservative unlike OTL which has some ramification in the political stage down the line.

On Turkey , yes they are severely crippled but they still have a young population and a big one at that so they can bounce back but it will take time, maybe too much time to be a threat in this WW2 but their numbers alone could be a problem. It will all depend on their relations with Italy and USSR.

On the Balkan front , the new alliance against Bulgaria would likely push Bulgaria to an alliance with Turkey which in turn could be a prime opportunity for Italy to take over politically and lead them into a new Balkan chaos. We have the totally random incident of a dog running to a Bulgarian post leading to almost a war between them and Greece which ITTL could lead to a Balkan war round 3 plus Italy.

I found interesting of you @Lascaris to know that much of the history of Olympiakos. I would like to know if you would flesh out Greek sports more ITTL as a bonus rather than focus on it.

 

[formion]

unlike OTL this Greece has enough land now to not spend that much capital on land reclamations

As I see it, it wasn't a simple dearth of land that was the cause of the reclamation projects. It was a combination of malaria keeping the lowlands depopulated and having marshes in the most productive regions of Greece.

Therefore, e.g. in the Central Macedonia plains, the Loudias lake didn't just sit in the middle of a potentially valuable agricultural land close to a major port, but was also the source of the mosquitoes that devastated a region much bigger than the lake itself.

So with a better economy, I think we may end up with more reclamation projects rather than less.

 

[Darrenb209]

I also disagree that Nazis are inevitable with a PoD this early on. Hitler could die in the Putsch or in prison, for instance, and with him gone early on it would likely derail the Nazis’ specific OTL rise to power.

Germany falling to right wing nationalism and authoritarianism in general, though, that is pretty well likely. There’s a small chance of it falling to left wing authoritarianism, and an even smaller chance of democracy somehow staying the course, but overall something like the Nazis is almost inevitable.

Honestly, there's even a small possibility of a Monarchist restoration. Not particularly likely in the slightest, but if the Soviets decide they want a piece of their weakened Turkish neighbour and escalate shit, maybe leading to them learning some lessons and thus winning if the Japanese do their incidents combined with Italy pulling an OTL Mussolini in his idiocy but somehow successful, there's a possibility that Italy and the Soviets are seen as such major threats that while angry, the British and French aren't willing to shed blood over it. Or even a tiny, tiny chance of rapprochement. But let's be honest, there's a better chance of Japan realigning back towards Britain and the Entente and apologising to China or at least committing less warcrimes than that.

About the only thing that is certain post Versailles is that the German Gov is likely to be incredibly Revanchist, unless there's a perceived greater threat. Short of the Soviets becoming seen as post WW2 levels of powerful pre-WW2, part of the battle-lines for WW2 are already drawn. France on one side, Germany on the other. Anybody else is up in the air though.

 

[Lascaris]

I also disagree that Nazis are inevitable with a PoD this early on. Hitler could die in the Putsch or in prison, for instance, and with him gone early on it would likely derail the Nazis’ specific OTL rise to power.

Germany falling to right wing nationalism and authoritarianism in general, though, that is pretty well likely. There’s a small chance of it falling to left wing authoritarianism, and an even smaller chance of democracy somehow staying the course, but overall something like the Nazis is almost inevitable.

Inevitable? No it is not. That said while butterflies are inevitably going to be happening, by the same token for broader historical trends and decisions to be changing, there needs to be a logical chain of events that is causing the change. Yes I could easily posit that during the beer hall putch (if it happens), one bullet went stray and got Hitler between the eyes. Pure random chance. But by the same token this is a different matter from whether there is a Beer Hall putch in the first place. In the second the logical question would be how to you have a logical chain of events from the change in Greece to affecting political decisions in Germany within less than three years? (One possible way, the love affair German nationalists and Hitler had with Kemal and the Turks fighting instead of meekly accepting Sevres. Argument for, TTL the Turks lost their war. Argument against, compared to Sevres the Turks won their war, the may have lost territory but preserved their independence, destroyed Wilsonian Armenia and greatly eased military clauses of the treaty.)

On the Balkan front , the new alliance against Bulgaria would likely push Bulgaria to an alliance with Turkey which in turn could be a prime opportunity for Italy to take over politically and lead them into a new Balkan chaos. We have the totally random incident of a dog running to a Bulgarian post leading to almost a war between them and Greece which ITTL could lead to a Balkan war round 3 plus Italy.

I found interesting of you @Lascaris to know that much of the history of Olympiakos. I would like to know if you would flesh out Greek sports more ITTL as a bonus rather than focus on it.

Of course even OTL Greece, Yugoslavia and Romania were more or less friendly with each other and wary of Bulgaria, which was returning the feelings. TTL without Greece being defeated in Asia Minor and with Venizelos uninterrupted in power the Greek-Serb alliance treaty would remain in place and the negotiations for a Balkan pact continued and encouraged by France for her own reasons.

Bulgaria aligning with Hungary and Turkey is not unreasonable, in effect is a continuation of the post-Balkan war trend and their wartime alliance. Italy is of course in a somewhat curius position vis-a-vis Turkey. They've got their mandate in Caria on one hand which the Turks won't like, but it is still Turkish territory recognized as such on the other, while Italy helped out Turkey and if the Italians were not there the area might have been outright lost to the Greeks who were claiming it.

Regarding Greek sports this is not a sports TL on one hand. On the other sports in general and football especially were not in a vacuum. So, they will be mentioned. Olympiakos... I know frustatingly little from my point of view. On one hand getting a strong football club in Piraeus at about this time is entirely logical and would be evolving more or less the same people. On the other there's frustratingly little info on why the people that went on to make Olympiakos and Ethikos, split the club they had formed merely months before, to decide if its likely or can be butterflied. Oh I'm Panathinaikos for the record. At least this one is pre-POD

 

[Lascaris]

Smyrna October 10th, 1922

The Institute of Hygiene, including the Medical and the pharmaceutical schools, and the library of the Ionian university of Smyrna were officially inaugurated marking the official opening of the Ionian university of Smyrna. More schools would follow over the next weeks. By the time all schools were open, the university would also possess schools of Architecture, Civil, Mechanical and Electrical engineering as well as chemistry, agriculture and geology. The only ones missing for the time being were Law and Philosophy, Athens was producing more than enough of them already. Eleutherios Venizelos was in Smyrna for the occasion, so were Ion Dragoumis, Nikolaos Stratos from the opposition. Dimitrios Gounaris was notably absent as he was down with a severe case of typhoid but despite his condition had made certain to telegraph his congratulations. For once Dragoumis was enthusiastic, as after nearly 5 centuries a Greek university was again teaching students in the near east. His sole concern was when the Ionian university would be followed by a university in Constantinople. Venizelos, always hopping to accommodate Dragoumis despite his political opposition, had no reason to disagree with the sentiment.

The new university was the result of two years of hard work by Constantine Caratheodory, a prominent Greek mathematician and correspondent of Albert Einstein who had been chosen as dean of the new university. In many ways Caratheodory was himself the living example of the changing circumstances of the Greek communities in the former Ottoman empire. Caratheodory's father had been an Ottoman diplomat who had been ambassador to Belgium, Germany and Russia. The son had been a Greek nationalist playing a central role in the Greek Ionian project. Following the end of the war some minor changes had been made to the organization of the university, but Venizelos had given explicit instructions which his high commissioner in Smyrna Aristeides Stergiadis had made certain to see applied, that the school of Eastern Studies teaching Arabic, Turkish, Persian, and Hebrew would be established no matter the exchange of populations as would be the Muslim seminary to teach future Muftis, after all the country even after the exchange would have a significant Muslim poplulation and there wasn't any need to teach a Greek nationalist the value of schools and priests in national consciousness. The School of Eastern Studies would end up evolving in ways its founders probably wad not anticipated...

The first building of the Ionian University (courtesy Wikimedia Commons)

Rome, October 28th, 1922

Benito Mussolini had been constantly on the rise for the past couple of years. Fascist militias had played a prominent role in breaking strikes by force, beating up leftinsts and generally making sure Italian politics became mired by violence. Mussolini himself had proven pretty successful in the 1921 elections. Someone would think that securing a mandate in south-west Anatolia would had allowed the government to shore up her position and at least ease up accusations the the Western allies had stolen from Italy her just rewards from victory. Mussolini had skilfully turned the tables on that claiming that the western powers had openly backed the Greeks against the Italians on everything from Smyrna, annexed by Greece despite the Italian claim to it, to overriding Italian opinions about Thrace and Albania. This was not acceptable. Both the Greeks and the Turks the argument continued, had shown how action was preferable to inaction, the Greeks gaining more territory than Italy had done and the Turks securing their independence and better non-territorial terms. It was "obvious" that Italy "needed" a man of action like Mussolini, you just had to ask him on the matter. Now the time had come for the fascists to seize power as about 30,000 of them marched on Rome. The elected government could had tried to fight and had it done so would had likely won. Instead, pressed by the king it had succumbed to the fascists without even firing a shot. Democracy in Italy had just died. [1]

[1] Very much OTL of course with an obvious addition in Mussolini's rhetoric against Greece and how Greece has been used as a tool by Britain and France against Italy's just ambitions...

 

[Salvador79]

I'm feeling sad for Italy suffering its OTL fate, but your Mussolini made a convincing case for his rise's plausibility, unfortunately.
Also, good choice to keep other countries quick and cursory so as to maintain the focus of the TL..!

 

[Aristomenes]

The School of Eastern Studies would end up evolving in ways its founders probably wad not anticipated...

That seems ominous... Of course, it doesn't have to be ominous for the Greeks.
@Lascaris what happened to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Menderes ΄?
I hope he will be punished for his crimes (e.g. the slaughter of 31 Greek boy-scouts in 1919).

 

[formion]

That seems ominous... Of course, it doesn't have to be ominous for the Greeks.
@Lascaris what happened to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Menderes ΄?
I hope he will be punished for his crimes (e.g. the slaughter of 31 Greek boy-scouts in 1919).

To those who don't know the story: At 17th June 1919, after a three day battle the Greek Army fell back from Aydin. During the fight, there was a number of fires set, burning both the greek and turkish part of the town. The Greek Boy Scouts with Nikos Avgeridis as a leader, were the only organized group fireghting and saving civilians, both Greeks and Turks. Then Menderes and his men arrived. Avgeridis was asked by Menderes to renounce his national identity. On refusing, Menderes cut off his eye with his sword. Avgeridis was then skinned alive. The 31 underage boy-scouts were then murdered. At least one boy was skinned alive and another beheaded. The rest were massacred with bayonets. The same fate had 13 boy-scouts of nearby Soca. In total, around 2,000 Greeks of Aydin were massacred.

 

[Lascaris]

I'm feeling sad for Italy suffering its OTL fate, but your Mussolini made a convincing case for his rise's plausibility, unfortunately.
Also, good choice to keep other countries quick and cursory so as to maintain the focus of the TL..!

I could not see any way this could be reasonably butterflied. Even grabbing some territory in Anatolia, still Italy will not be happy, if anything while in OTL the Italian foreign policy of support of Turkey and Albania against Greece (and her British/French backers) was a relative success here it is anything but. The internal troubles in Italy are also very much intact. There is of course a single difference, while Italian fascism in OTL was relatively neutral towards Greece, or rather wildly oscillated from mildly friendly at Lausanne to open hostility some months later with the Corfu incident and allegedly involvement to the Leonardopoulos-Gargalides coup, to trying to establish a Greek alliance to finally invading Greece, here it is more likely to be uniformly hostile.

That seems ominous... Of course, it doesn't have to be ominous for the Greeks.
@Lascaris what happened to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Menderes ΄?
I hope he will be punished for his crimes (e.g. the slaughter of 31 Greek boy-scouts in 1919).

The school is pretty unique in Greece, for one thing it's the only one systematically teaching Hebrew and from which Hebrew speaking teachers for Greece's 133,000 plus Jews TTL would be graduating. Not certain what was the status of Hebrew teaching in the rest of Europe, I'd expect comparable faculties would exist elsewhere in Europe and the Hebrew university of Jerusalem was established in late 1918, but at the very least there is a tie here with the zionist movement and Greece's Jewish community that in OTL was not there (and the zionists in Greece where Venizelist OTL which hardly hurts)

Besides that it's obviously a window into better understanding the Middle East. How could that ever be used in an ominous fashion? It's not as if the school will be teaching OSS agents in the future. After all OSS doesn't even exist.

Menderes is alive and well. He has lost the lands his family held north of the Meander of course but still holds any land in the Italian zone and is more than amply compensated with Greek and Armenian fortunes. After all from the Turkish point of view he's one of their heroes. He's likely to be a rising political star by the early 1930s...

 

[Sevarics]

Love this timeline. Subscribed

 

[Lascaris]

Athens, November 30th, 1922

Dimitrios Gounaris, former prime minister and head of the largest party of the "United Opposition" had finally been persuaded to return to Athens and take up his seat in parliament a couple months before only to be struck with a severe case of typhoid in early October, during his years of absense he had grown unaccustomed to Athenian water. In November 7th he had been moved to the Anagnostopoulos private clinic but despite the efforts of his doctors his condition kept deteriorating, till he died, much to the shock of Athenian society. It was a pointed reminder of the bad condition of Athens water system, water was still brought to the city from wells and from the ancient Hadrian's aqueduct bringing water to Athens since 140 A.D. It was hardly enough for a city that together with Piraeus had reached 453,000 people in the last census two years earlier. Questions and pressure in the parliament mounted with Petros Protopapadakis, who had succeeded Gounaris in leadership of the Populist party leading the questions, Protopadakis a civil engineer who had produced one of the studies about Athens water supply back in 1899 was uniquely suitable for the task. He was less suitable at keeping the Populists in one piece as MPs start deserting the Populists for Nikolaos Stratos Conservative party and Ion Dragoumis parliamentary group.

Athens, December 23rd, 1922

The plans for Athens new water supply were already underway since 1918 but the war had delayed them. With the fighting over the government signed a $10 million contract with the US Ulen company and the Bank of Athens for the wholesale replacement of Athens water supply. The centrepiece of the new system would be the dam of Marathon which would be completed in May 1928.

Constantinople, December 24th, 1922

Christmas was coming. And with Christmas was coming the first time in 469 years that the Christian liturgy would be heard within Hagia Sophia. That the Greeks of the city were excited at the prospect was an understandment, as tens of thousands had start gathering around Hagia Sophia already from mid-day in anticipation of the mass that was to begin in the early morning hours. The Inter-Allied police was less happy at the prospect fearing a backlash from the Muslim population of the city even though the Sivas government and the sultan had publicly adhered to the agreement that turned Hagia Sophia into a museum. It would quickly prove that the police was right to be wary. Turning the Hagia Sophia into a museum was bad enough for the more pious among Constantinople's Muslims. Letting it operate as a church on top of that was even worse. The call to "defend" it from the Christians spontaneously start being raised in several mosques throughout the city during the afternoon prayer, with crowds starting to gather. Quickly the crowds turned to a demonstration and quickly the demonstration into riots as clashes erupted with the Greeks that had start gathering around Hagia Sophia who emboldened in the aftermath of the war showed no signs of backing down. Soon the rioting was out of control with Turks attacking Greeks and Armenian churches and shops and the Greeks and Armenians fighting back and attacking Turkish mosques and shops.

The mass did take place despite the rioting, the ecumenical patriarch bluntly stated to the allied high commissioners that it was their job to enforce the agreements and he was going to hold the mass whether they protected him or not even if it would cost him his life. But it would take three days and deployment of the allied army units stationed in Constantinople to put the riots under control despite the calls on all sides for calm. By the time the riots subsided there were over two dozen dead and the cost was estimated in the millions.

Geneva, January 14th, 1922

George Kafandaris had resigned his position as allied high commissioner for Constantinople in the aftermath of the bloody Christmas of 1922. But Italian and Turkish hopes that his replacement would not be Greek had quickly been dashed as Venizelos proposed, Aristeides Stergiadis the Greek governor general for Smyrna in his place and the League council confirmed him in position, Stergiadis credentials for efficiency and impartiality during his tenure in Smyrna had been impeccable, so much so that the Greeks were accusing him of favouring the Turks, while he was well respected by both the British and French. Given his success in Smyrna he was the logical choice for Constantinople, his tenure would continue for several years. The only man not happy with the choice was Benito Mussolini for him, installing Stergiadis over Italian disagreement was a personal slight to him anf he Mussolini had not taken up power in Italy to continue accepting slights. Greece needed to be taught a lesson. The Regia Marina was quietly ordered to start preparing for a possible operation the other side of the Adriatic. Of course a suitable excuse for the operation would be needed. But that was what secret services were for...

 

[Xenophonte]

. The Regia Marina was quietly ordered to start preparing for a possible operation the other side of the Adriatic. Of course a suitable excuse for the operation would be needed. But that was what secret services were for...

So, from the Fascist Dictators handbook again in TTL as in OTL Corfu incident, seems that 'd be 'fabricated' some kind of incident grave enough for 'punish'/'teach them their place' But guess that in TTL, it 'd have greater chances that it 'd will gonna amiss or even that the whole thing backfire for Mussolini

 

[emperor joe]

So in seems that anthens would not be the big city that is today... But at least i hope it would be built better than otl athens

 

[Aristomenes]

So in seems that anthens would not be the big city that is today... But at least i hope it would be built better than otl athens

Athens and Piraeus demographically "exploded" in 2 waves. The first one, after the Asia Minor Catastrophe and the second one after the WWII and the Greek Civil War.

Athens - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So, without the first incident, the population of Athens in, lets say 1940 will be lower than OTL.

 

[Lascaris]

So, from the Fascist Dictators handbook again in TTL as in OTL Corfu incident, seems that 'd be 'fabricated' some kind of incident grave enough for 'punish'/'teach them their place' But guess that in TTL, it 'd have greater chances that it 'd will gonna amiss or even that the whole thing backfire for Mussolini

You could reasonably say I believe that there was a standard pattern in how fascist Italy was acting. In 1923 they had Tellini assassinated. In 1935, they made sure to turn a border skirmish in Eritrea to all out war with Ethiopia. In 1940 in the lead-up to invading Greece they start accusing Greece of assassinating a Daoud Hoxca who supposedly was an Albanian freedom fighter (and in reality was a common criminal killed for gang related differences)

I would not want to be poor Tellini here, given how the man was opposing the Mussolini regime...

So in seems that anthens would not be the big city that is today... But at least i hope it would be built better than otl athens

As mentioned Athens-Piraeus already had 453,000 in 1920. That's more than both Thessaloniki which stands at about 161,000 after the exchange of populations is done and Smyrna which is about 372,000 including her suburbs. Only Constantinople is larger overall at about 1.15 million but the Greek population is only a fraction of that. So Athens is already the largest Greek city in existence.

Post that its reasonable to assume that the city expansion will be following different patterns than OTL without the influx of refugees. In Piraeus, Drapetsona, Keratsini and Nikaia were virtually non existent. In Athens proper Alimos had 32 inhabitants, Vyronas was non existent and Kaisariani had all of 11 people, Nea Ionia, Nea Halkidon, Nea Philadelpheia, Nea Smyrni, Nea Erythraia as indicated by their names are gone. So is Tauros, effectively the only notable population between Athens and Piraeus is Kallithea with 4,940 people in 1920, the rest is still a gigantic olive grove dating to ancient Athens.

TTL Athens still had potential to rise in the millions, but if Smyrna, Constantinople and Thessaloniki are still around as Greek cities by 2020, it is not going to be rising to +40% of the Greek population as it has in OTL, it would be more like Rome and Milan in Italy for example.

Athens and Piraeus demographically "exploded" in 2 waves. The first one, after the Asia Minor Catastrophe and the second one after the WWII and the Greek Civil War.

Athens - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So, without the first incident, the population of Athens in, lets say 1940 will be lower than OTL.

In OTL there were about 299,000 refugees settled in Athens who TTL are either still in their homes or settled elsewhere, the number of urban refugees TTL is far lower, with Smyrna still Greek and most urban refugees would be settled in Smyrna, Thessaloniki and Adrianople.

 

[ArmageddonZ4747]

I've always wondered how relevant would Adrianople (and by extension East Thrace) be in Megali Greece. Will it be one of the biggest cities, along with Athens, Thessaloniki and Smyrna? It will connect Greece with its short Black sea coast, until it annexes Constantinople atleast (which I don't see happening right away)...

 

[formion]

It will be interesting to see the developments of greek army doctrine after this successful war. From one side, the french doctrine will reign supreme and I think there will be a few french military missions in Greece. Keeping the francophile Pangalos in a prominent position will further ensure french influence. On the other side, the Greeks just fought a war that was way more fluid than the Western Front with no continuous trench lines along the front. Their greatest foe was the turkish cavalry and its mobility. Moreover, fighting their way to Ankara and Konya and supplying the army across significant distances, may very well force the greek staff give more focus on logistics.

Even if Greek officers embrace mobile warfare, the greek economy cannot support a motorized army. At best we may get a mechanized corps with the rest being regular infantry divisions.


On a tactical level, there is a significant difference to OTL: the Greeks had Stokes mortars. It is not a strech to have a few officers understanding that in the rugged -often mountainous - terrain of the Balkans and Anatolia, the mortar is the best support weapon for infantry. Moreover, mortars are rather simple and cheap weapons that can be produced in Greece. They are also easy to move around with mules, the backbone of greek army logistics. In 1940, a greek regiment had only 4 mortars. If a battalion gets to have a battery of 4 mortars (81mm) and the regiment keeps its own battery, then we may have greek divisions fielding 48 mortars instead of 12. Such a move will increase dramaticaly the firepower of the greek army in a rather cheapish way.