Moonlight in a Jar: An Al-Andalus Timeline

[SenatorErnesto]

What does Catalonia look like at this point?

It was always easier imagining Southern Spain ruled by the Moors as it’s architecture and people and popular image has been closely mirrored by what Arabic Iberia actually looked like. (Does that make sense)

But Catalonia today and Catalonia then I’m sure look totally different.

 

[haider najib]

What does Catalonia look like at this point?

do Catalans exist, at this point?

 

[Nivek]

do Catalans exist, at this point?

There never was a marca hispanica at all, meaning the catalans have been butterfly away

 

[Alexander the Average]

And so it begins. Interesting to see the king of France seeing Andalusia as a land of heretics and sorcery, though that's not surprising.

Christians, making Al Andalus sound way cooler than it was for centuries.

 

[Al-numbers]

Christians, making Al Andalus sound way cooler than it was for centuries.

"Frederick, I'm telling you those Moors can do witchcraft! They have iron balls that explode! Exploding iron balls!!"

"Francis, how much have you drunk?"

 

[Yama951]

"Frederick, I'm telling you those Moors can do witchcraft! They have iron balls that explode! Exploding iron balls!!"

"Francis, how much have you drunk?"

Why do I imagine this to be a scene in TTL version of Hetalia between France and Germany?

Now I wonder how Al-Andalus, Navarre, Santiago, and the New World nations look like in such an ATL take of Hetalia.

 

[IndustrialPanic]

Why do I imagine this to be a scene in TTL version of Hetalia between France and Germany?

Now I wonder how Al-Andalus, Navarre, Santiago, and the New World nations look like in such an ATL take of Hetalia.

It seems that even in this timeline the world isn't save from the anime menace... On a somewhat related note, is Japan doing anything interesting in this ATL?

 

[Planet of Hats]

Why do I imagine this to be a scene in TTL version of Hetalia between France and Germany?

Now I wonder how Al-Andalus, Navarre, Santiago, and the New World nations look like in such an ATL take of Hetalia.

It seems that even in this timeline the world isn't save from the anime menace... On a somewhat related note, is Japan doing anything interesting in this ATL?

There actually are various fanarts out there of Hetalia Al-Andalus. They seem fall into two categories: "Pretty belly dancer girl" and "Regular Spain in generic Muslim attire."

ITTL, Hetalia Al-Andalus is probably closer to the latter: A handsome lad in colourful green, indigo and scarlet robes, who probably really loves boats and spicy food. Santiago is probably a young man with luxurious raven curls and a purple and silver Norman-style tunic who really likes collecting seashells on the beach.

I haven't given a ton of attention to Japan save that they're in a shogunate period at the moment and kind of just keeping to themselves. Seems like I'll have to devote some brain to it. The Ryukyu kingdoms are doing very well, though.

 

[Yama951]

I haven't given a ton of attention to Japan save that they're in a shogunate period at the moment and kind of just keeping to themselves. Seems like I'll have to devote some brain to it. The Ryukyu kingdoms are doing very well, though.

Curious if the Sakoku Isolation period would be butterflied away, now that possibility of Christian missionaries from Spain and Portugal, which was one reason of the isolation, are basically gone.

 

[LostInNewDelhi]

Curious if the Sakoku Isolation period would be butterflied away, now that possibility of Christian missionaries from Spain and Portugal, which was one reason of the isolation, are basically gone.

They might be replaced by Islamic missionaries hailing from the exact same place-- but I think we'll avoid Sakoku anyways. Even if the original intention for the policy (limiting the power and wealth of the western feudal domains which had opposed the Tokugawa, especially the coastal ones with trade/war fleets) is still relevant, once the Chinese get armored steamboats and start parading around the Kyushu coastline there is absolutely no good reason to let your ship/cannon advancements stall out.

Japanese naval expansion would be a very interesting affair, though. It would probably be conducted autonomously by several coastal han, and if the Shoguns are smart they'll create incentives for them to compete instead of weakening them across the board. It's inefficient, yes, but such is politics in a feudal confederacy under some god-man and his favorite general.

 

[Yama951]

They might be replaced by Islamic missionaries hailing from the exact same place-- but I think we'll avoid Sakoku anyways. Even if the original intention for the policy (limiting the power and wealth of the western feudal domains which had opposed the Tokugawa, especially the coastal ones with trade/war fleets) is still relevant, once the Chinese get armored steamboats and start parading around the Kyushu coastline there is absolutely no good reason to let your ship/cannon advancements stall out.

Japanese naval expansion would be a very interesting affair, though. It would probably be conducted autonomously by several coastal han, and if the Shoguns are smart they'll create incentives for them to compete instead of weakening them across the board. It's inefficient, yes, but such is politics in a feudal confederacy under some god-man and his favorite general.

Suddenly got the mental image of Japan having wokou pirates instead of samurai as its famous soldier archetype. Or maybe samurai pirates...

 

[haider najib]

Suddenly got the mental image of Japan having wokou pirates instead of samurai as its famous soldier archetype. Or maybe samurai pirates...

They might be replaced by Islamic missionaries hailing from the exact same place-- but I think we'll avoid Sakoku anyways. Even if the original intention for the policy (limiting the power and wealth of the western feudal domains which had opposed the Tokugawa, especially the coastal ones with trade/war fleets) is still relevant, once the Chinese get armored steamboats and start parading around the Kyushu coastline there is absolutely no good reason to let your ship/cannon advancements stall out.

Japanese naval expansion would be a very interesting affair, though. It would probably be conducted autonomously by several coastal han, and if the Shoguns are smart they'll create incentives for them to compete instead of weakening them across the board. It's inefficient, yes, but such is politics in a feudal confederacy under some god-man and his favorite general.

Nah they will be just a bigger korea to china. Japan now way in hell will could even try to challenge china like they did originally in this tl. Chinese domination in culture, language will keep them in there sphere plus the chinese military.

 

[Nivek]

Curious if the Sakoku Isolation period would be butterflied away, now that possibility of Christian missionaries from Spain and Portugal, which was one reason of the isolation, are basically gone.

Suddenly got the mental image of Japan having wokou pirates instead of samurai as its famous soldier archetype. Or maybe samurai pirates...

Nah they will be just a bigger korea to china. Japan now way in hell will could even try to challenge china like they did originally in this tl. Chinese domination in culture, language will keep them in there sphere plus the chinese military.

Sakokku is gone and knowing how polytheist was japan...that is not that easy for Muslim,plus unlike catholic, more 'missionary' were independet trader or explorer, I think we could see a japan getting into chinese orbit but much like OTL, figthing hard to not become chinese.

And Japanese were the original pirates, much of wushu monk existed was to protect coastal monasteries from japanese raiders.

 

[haider najib]

like OTL, figthing hard to not become chinese.

Maybe, China isn't being screwed its military will be more advanced Japan only has the fact it has a sea between them. But again its china they will literally move heaven and earth to get what they want, just because japan doesn't want to be chinese and fights harder means little to the advanced dragon armies.

 

[Al-numbers]

There actually are various fanarts out there of Hetalia Al-Andalus. They seem fall into two categories: "Pretty belly dancer girl" and "Regular Spain in generic Muslim attire."

ITTL, Hetalia Al-Andalus is probably closer to the latter: A handsome lad in colourful green, indigo and scarlet robes, who probably really loves boats and spicy food. Santiago is probably a young man with luxurious raven curls and a purple and silver Norman-style tunic who really likes collecting seashells on the beach.

Hmm...

*Looks up Hetalia renditions of Muslim Spain*

Spoiler: Not bad

Not bad at all.

Of course, the clothes are anachronistic - those patterns would have changed according to the fashions of the era - and the influx of New World goods and wealth would have changed his sense of self beyond what Hidekaz Himaruya would have conceived. But not bad.

I wish there's an animation where this personification meets up with France/Francis Bonnefoy in the current war, and the theological/political/military implications fleshed out in full.

 

[last admiral]

"Frederick, I'm telling you those Moors can do witchcraft! They have iron balls that explode! Exploding iron ball!!"

"Francis, how much have you drunk?"

This can go many way. KBob approve this.

"Pretty belly dancer girl"

*Facepalm*

They might be replaced by Islamic missionaries hailing from the exact same place

YYYYEESSSS!!!!!

knowing how polytheist was japan...that is not that easy for Muslim,

Me at that post:

Spoiler

No offense....

No one:
Imam and Sheikh:

Suddenly got the mental image of Japan having wokou pirates instead of samurai as its famous soldier archetype. Or maybe samurai pirates...

Let it be know that, whoever hearing this on the ocean:
"Bakuretsu, Bakuretsu, la la la....."

It means the wukou are coming....

 

[Nivek]

No one:
Imam and Sheikh:

They could and will try...and would start a war make the Akamutsu rebellion looks like a peaceful protest...that would be insane.

*Facepalm*

Why?

 

[last admiral]

They could and will try...and would start a war make the Akamutsu rebellion looks like a peaceful protest...that would be insane.

Bruh, Abrahamic religions have a way to charm the "bottom line" of the society. Much like OTL christianity, they would go underground and be creative about it, with huge usage of taqiyyah.
*taqiyyah intensified*

But i can see the merchantalism might rise slowly.

Why?

Nothing. Just the cliche' of Arab or anything related to.

 

[Nivek]

Bruh, Abrahamic religions have a way to charm the "bottom line" of the society. Much like OTL christianity, they would go underground and be creative about it, with huge usage of taqiyyah.
*taqiyyah intensified*

But i can see the merchantalism might rise slowly.

I could see Japanese Muslim Abandoning Japan(Hegirah) to elsewhere, indonesia, malaya and mindao are options and becoming a cultural group out there later on, depending how much convert...that could be the equivalent of Sakkoku, forbidding foreign missioners and keeping all japanese in the islands

 

[Yama951]

Well, there was the trading down of Aparri in Luzon and Japanese merchants were trading with Tondo and later Spanish Manila before the isolation period, if memory serves.

One hilarious history tidbit was Oda Nobunaga's plan to invade the Spanish Philippines after uniting Japan. He died before then but still, the what ifs.