Map Thread XVIII

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by FesteringSpore, Jul 28, 2018.

  1. Valdore Javorsky That Guy with that "The Lilith Parallax" magic TL

    Sep 13, 2016
    Berlin, maybe Zwickau soon
    Hey y’all,

    I know I haven’t been that active lately or rather have seemed to be, however the Rise of the Night (formerly known as Nightrise Project) TL/World is still in development and we’re constantly working to improve it.
    However a certain subject has been debated about in the recent weeks and tbh it has been since pretty much the beginning of the TL/worldbuilding project.

    And that’s about the german/danubian borders.

    In the last 2 or so years (including first concepts its almost 3) the right border composition (blue) was the typical “nightrise” border. A central european country called “Danubia” with german as its main, but not sole language as it would rather work as a traffic and science language everyone would learn as first foreign language (similar to english in most EU countries).
    The other idea is a "standard" greater german empire which isn't that different except that german is by far the majority mother tongue with less non-german peoples on its territory, and those who are are culturally close enough to cooperate and where the government is able to keep a stable cultural/community integrity based on very close cultural ties. the "non-annexed territories" would remain in germany's sphere. The PoD is 1852, with a bit of ASB content but the "final" border composition is reached somewhere between 1860 and 1875.
    Any other concepts are mostly illogical ore just look hideous on map, so it's mostly a 50:50 between these two ideas

    Both have roughly equal pros and cons (whichcauses me to struggle to decide) :

    Danube Monarchy
    +Territory larger
    +Vienna is in the Empire's centre
    +More inland resources & total economic power
    +German-Polish friendship could easily be explained through plot
    +No far-too-strong majority (germans make up like 53% of the whole mainland population, giving other minorities a chance)
    +"Tradition" - it has always been like this in the scenario
    +Adds originality to the timeline
    -Despite efforts to lower ethnic tensions through different programs, someone will always be disturbed, and be it the surrounding nation states
    -Large non-mainstream language population with possible integration issues and everyone having to mandatorily learn german
    -Thus has a bit of a "unflexible old stony government" appearance
    -Underdeveloped non-german peasantry areas need the money you'd preferably want for yourself
    -Nationalism during the period + Ethnic/religious mess = "rapid unscheduled disassembly" (burning + explosions) processing

    Greater Germany
    +Clear Culture/cultural minorities with very close cultural relation (Czechs, Poles, Slovenes, Balts)
    +German is the clear majority (less linguistic mess)
    +Less ethnoreligious mess
    +More "flexible" government
    +Less area to develop, especially less non-integrated area
    +Ability to add the baltic states
    +More "soft power" through the sphere than an unflexible superstate
    -Vienna lies a bit in the country's periphery (there are ways to surpass that, especially with the SoI)
    -German Polish Friendship not as guaranteed as in Danubia
    -Possible Border disputes
    -Quite generic -> Greater Germany is a bit of a softly overused idea
    -The originality is lost
    -Minorities could have difficulties to get their voice in the parliament/cultural happenings (focus lies on "could", tho)

    Other than that, if I were to take the greater german solution, i would like to hear your opinion on whether to annex the lowlands too, and if annexing venice for its valuable port is worth the italian glares and evil eyes or if it's too much of a(n ethnic) fuss.
    (Maps with slightly different projection and pale blue color)

    Additionally, since this is more of a question than a map, and I already feel the mods breathing into my neck, have a map of how the Greater German Solution
    and the Danube Monarchy proposal/borders in a bit bigger so the condition of a post to be in the Map Thread is fulfilled:


    (Lighter Borders in Hessen, Austria and Bohemia imply where i'm unsure if i should include them or not.)

    Greetings, Val
  2. Middlesex_Toffeeman Wondering who "fnuds" the IEA. Banned

    Nov 17, 2018
    Middlesex, Great Britain.
    Kernow beeeeg! Kernow stronk! Kernow can into Somerset!
    Gokbay and Calbertbreastpeach like this.
  3. Calbertbreastpeach "The world is not beautiful, therefore it is."

    Oct 24, 2016
    New New York
    The anarcho tolstoist republic of Kornwall was the highlight of me and my friends EU4 game

  4. Middlesex_Toffeeman Wondering who "fnuds" the IEA. Banned

    Nov 17, 2018
    Middlesex, Great Britain.
    Don't tell me, Cornwall goes on Milosevič levels of ethnic cleansing in the Glorious Cornish People's Provinces of Dorset and Somerset?

    North Korea laterally displaced 12,000 miles to the British Isles is not fun.
  5. Calbertbreastpeach "The world is not beautiful, therefore it is."

    Oct 24, 2016
    New New York
    If it makes you feel any better its not the worst country in this TL

    China nukes its own cities with rebellious populations to expirment on the effects of radiaton for science!!!!
  6. Middlesex_Toffeeman Wondering who "fnuds" the IEA. Banned

    Nov 17, 2018
    Middlesex, Great Britain.
    And today we discover the meaning of the words 'war crimes trial' and 'gallows'.
    Calbertbreastpeach likes this.
  7. Middlesex_Toffeeman Wondering who "fnuds" the IEA. Banned

    Nov 17, 2018
    Middlesex, Great Britain.
    I may have got the quote wrong, but:
    *heavy Cornish accent* Richard Cole is not a war criminal. I have drunk poison.
  8. Calbertbreastpeach "The world is not beautiful, therefore it is."

    Oct 24, 2016
    New New York

    It’s a dystopia bcus that’s the way most strategy game countries devolve too

    China is just funny bcus the way my mate played it was somehow simlatenously a technocracy a facist State a communist state and a theocracy

    I’m thinking about turning it into it’s own mapping project tbqh
    Gokbay and Middlesex_Toffeeman like this.
  9. J. Westrate Well-Known Member

    Jul 6, 2017
    "Lord Russell, how shall we proceed with the Chilean situation."
    "Your Majesty, the Chileans have decided for themselves. They have declared war on us."
    "Very well, send a message to President Derqui, and tell him that we will grant Argentina the Altiplano from Chile if they join us in this war."
    - Exchange between Prime Minister Russell and Queen Victoria, 1864


    Bolivia: Bolivia, also known as la Republica Boliviana de Gran Colombia, is the most powerful state in South America. It has the largest population, the most expansive railway network, the largest city (Lima), and its navy has the most ships on the continent, including one ironclad, the Libertador. Bolivia is ruled by President Tomas Cipriano de Mosquera, the leader of the Liberal Party and a former general. His administration is friendly with France, and Bolivia is allied to Texas-California and Paraguay. Columbia is opposed to Brazil and Chile, its main rivals for power on the continent. It is influential in east Asia, and trades extensively with the Spanish through the Philippines, and has opened Japan to outside influence.

    Brazil: the Republic of Brazil is a socialist state, the first of its kind. Because the excesses of slavery in the Empire of Brazil, the abolitionist movement grew much faster, especially given the example of mistreatment of slaves in Quebec and Florida. The Brazilian lower classes became alienated to the idea of slavery, as did Pedro II, the emperor. When the Emperor outlawed the slave trade, the landowning class decided to take action, anticipating that Pedro would emancipate the slaves altogether. They assassinated the emperor, and crowned Prince Alfonso, a severely disabled man. This allowed them to use Alfonso as a puppet, while instituting a reactionary agenda, repealing Pedro's policies. The people revolted in disgust, and overthrew the Empire, establishing the Republic of Brazil. The revolutionaries, including Venancio Flores and socialist Uruguayan expats, enshrined rights to liberty, housing, and human dignity in the constitution of the republic. Brazil is a now trying to expand its political influence after the revolution, coming into conflict with Bolivia even though they are now more closely aligned ideologically.

    Chile: Chile, officially the Empire of La Plata, is an authoritarian monarchy ruled by the House of Alevar, after General Carlos Maria de Alevar made himself Supreme Director, then crowned himself Emperor of La Plata in 1815. He then invaded and conquered Chile, before conceding the eastern provinces to the Argentine Confederation. Politically, Chile has historic ties to France, due to Alevar's support for the Bonapartes during the Hundred Days. Now, Chile is ruled by Emperor Carlos Maria III, who is widely seen as incompetent. The emperor is in conflict with the Parliaments, and is having severe trouble getting anything done in the country due to civil unrest. In an effort to retain power, Alevar decided to try to seize the Falkland Islands from Britain.

    Argentina: the Argentine Confederation is a federal republic led by Santiago Derqui of the Conservative Federalist Party (created after a split within the Federalists in the 1850s). It is aligned with Britain, partly out of paranoia about the Chileans. The Conservative Federalists want to reacquire the territory of Rio De La Plata from Chile, improve the education system in the country, and maintain Catholicism as the state religion. Argentina is allied with Mexico and Britain, supports Bolivia, and is opposed to Chile and Brazil.

    Paraguay: The Republic of Paraguay is a military junta sandwiched between Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, and Argentina. As a result it is extremely defensive about its continued existence, with a disproportionately large military. Paraguay has adopted some truly bizzarre policies; such as creating a nationalized Cult of Humanity, which resembles Catholicism with all supernatural elements removed, and the president as the religious head. Paraguay is not even remotely stable, and experiences frequent popular uprisings even as the government professes itself as representing the "supreme will of the people." Outside observers expect Paraguay to spontaneously collapse into civil war any day, and the directory has repeatedly baffled them by continuing to remain in control through increasingly depraved means.

    This map takes place in the same world as the Dominion of Quebec. Next map I plan on making about that world will show Europe.
  10. Valdore Javorsky That Guy with that "The Lilith Parallax" magic TL

    Sep 13, 2016
    Berlin, maybe Zwickau soon
    thanks for the likes and all but this post was actually more supposed to be a question (which border composition to choose), not a presentation ^^'
    That message probably didn't break through
    Tethys00 likes this.
  11. Tethys00 Dirty fucking SocDem Donor

    Apr 24, 2018
    Great Salt Lake City, The Republic of Deseret
    Personally I would go with the Danube Monarchy.
    Kikkomaan and xmoose like this.
  12. Gokbay Well-Known Member, apparently huh...

    Aug 17, 2016
    Republics vs Monarchies wip.png

    Almost done outside the Pacific and description/legend. Added some new colonies European Union of Republics and their Chinese and Indian allies. Making the Republican bloc more equal to the Monarchist bloc.
  13. CassiusBSVP Well-Known Member

    Aug 8, 2011
    São Paulo, Brazil
    (Praying that this doesn't come to happen)
    December 8, 2018 is now being quoted as the day Europe died. On their fourth week of protests, the Yellow Vest movement managed to mobilize 2,5 million people to march to the Champs Elysees, demanding Macron's resignation, plus another 3 million people along other French cities. Tensions quicly escalated around the presidential palace, when a group of soldiers (some say they were far-right sympathizers wanting to cause a national comotion to bring down the government) opened fire against the protestors. This catastrophe put the country on fire, with now massive and violent protests taking all over the country and LREM members, journalists, and, in some cases, minorities being lynched in public. Inside the armed forces, any reluctance on the left to work with the far-right went down, and, on December 10, a bloody coup d'etat put the French Fifth Republic to it's misery, with the First Family being executed by firing squad on national television, as "traitors of the people".

    The new junta, headed by general De Villiers, promptly took France out of the EU and NATO. But soon disagreements started to form between the right and the left wings of the regime on the economic and social paths to be taken by it. In many cities brawls between left and right wing protesters started to happen, and, on late Januaty 2019, with the military taking a more clearly defined far-rightist stance, the predominantly left-wing areas of the country exploded in rebellion, initiating a "corrective revolution" headed by Mélenchon.

    We are now at late March 2019, with the French civil war ending it's second month. Following the French exemple, Italy, Austria, Hungary, and Poland have left the EU, with their governmens, together with the De Villiers regime, the USA, and Brazil, have constituted the Anti-Globalist Alliance. These countries are all supporting millitary the De Villiers regime.

    the French Caribbean islands and French Guiana originally supported the Mélenchonist government, but have been occupied "in the name of the legitimate French government", by it's international allies. The Americans occupying the Caribbean islands, and the Brazilians occupying Guiana.

    After the start of the civil war, Wallis, Futuna, Tahiti, Corsica, and the Kanaks in New Caledonia declared independence. Corsica has been promply occupied by Italy, also in the name of the De Villiers government, while the situation in New Caledonia has degenerated on it's own civil war, between the Kanak separatists, and the Caldoches, loyal to the regime. The Comoros have also occupied Mayotte, fulfilling their long time claim on that island.

    On the metropolitan front, it has been particulary brutal the siege on Seine-Saint-Denis, now being called the French Ghouta, and the battly of Lyon with the Mélenchonists trying to cut the corridor that unites the northern and southern areas under Villierist rule, and these trying to widen it.

    While the Villierist regime has been getting foreign support from Italy, Austria, Hungary, Poland, the USA, and Brazil, the Mélenchonist one has been getting support from Portugal, Greece, and Spain, besides being seen as slightly less unpalatable by the remaining liberal democracies. The Russians are being rumoured to being giving millitary support to both sides, wanting to drag the civil war as long as possible as a way to keep Europe in flames.
  14. Bleh Bane of poinsettia mites

    Jan 21, 2015
    Guadalajara, Jalisco
    Christ. Someone's looking to take the "master of dystopia" title away from @rvbomally I see.
  15. rvbomally Russian Hacker

    Dec 13, 2008
    I was considering doing a second French Revolution map.
  16. Tangle Well-Known Member

    Aug 16, 2012
    The Federalized Republic of Howard's Landing
    They're taking the "unrealistically dark" one too....
  17. AUGGP Well-Known Member

    Honestly even a second French revolution wouldn't be as bad as this, because this was not only another revolution but one that ended in a giant civil war as well
    CassiusBSVP likes this.
  18. Skallagrim Not the one from YouTube. Different other fellow.

    Feb 5, 2014
    Whereas the French Revolution totally didn't lead to civil war, mass executions, and a whole series of continent-spanning wars, right? ;)
  19. AUGGP Well-Known Member

    Fair enough dude, fair enough
  20. Miranda Brawner Trans Woman

    Oct 24, 2013
    Savannah, Georgia, USA
    Valdore, I recommend the Danube state.
    Reepicheep and Bleh like this.