I might actually have the spare time to clean up that map for it.
Map Thread XII
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I might actually have the spare time to clean up that map for it.
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
Going back to the map that I published last night, here is the new and improved version. I've made some changes, especially to the Caucasus since I'm hoping to create a scenario involving one of the Georgian kingdoms liberating the Armenian lands. This could end up as a TL scenario under a TLIA(Day, Week, Month, Year?) but I definitely want to map this out for CF.net.
Still incomplete because I wanted to do some changes to Asia before I make this map final.
Still incomplete because I wanted to do some changes to Asia before I make this map final.
One of my possible entries to this round of the MoTF- significantly shrunken and with nonsense effects thrown over, sans all text/borders/everything which the final would or will have. Essentially a completely different file with the same base. The idea here is that icemelt and the abandonment of human-made dams and other such constructs raises the Gulf of California's level and results in the revision of the course of the Colorado River. However, environmentally conscious future-people decide to redirect the river further, resulting in the creation of a Super Salton Sea, the original having gone the way of the Aral. Further, the formerly (and modernly) essentially defunct Colorado Delta is recreated, with various long term goals in mind mostly involving beating back the desert.
A bit late, and I realize that it's not your work, but I'll mention a few points:
Technically, there should be no translation for North Korea, as the Chinese characters for "Joseon" (조선/朝鮮) originally referred to a very rough Old Chinese approximation of the presumed Proto-Korean pronunciation of the first Korean state, which ceased to exist in 108 BC. It was then reused for Joseon (1392-1910) and North Korea, with the original state in mind, but the original meaning has been lost, as the characters were solely meant to represent the original pronunciation from a Chinese perspective, not the meaning.
In addition, the "translation" for South Korea is a bit odd, as "Han" should technically be singular, and the person who made the map is being inconsistent, as he took components from both "Hanguk" (한국/韓國; general nomenclature) and "Daehan Minguk" (대한민국/大韓民國; official). The former should probably be translated as "Great Nation" (the character for "Han" is used to represent a native Korean word for "great"), while the longer version should be something like "Great Han Nation of the People," as the alternative would result in a redundancy with two "greats." Given that no other country has been referred to by their official nomenclature, I would assume that this should apply to Korea as well.
I think you meant Zhōngguó (中国), not Zhōngyāng (中央). The latter just means "center," and can be used to describe other things as well.
But I agree that it is difficult to translate, as "国" can represent different things depending on context.
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e North Korea/Joseon: At the time the mediaeval kingdom was named, hanzi were still routinely used in Korea, as evidenced on portraits from the era. Indeed, hangul were invented in 1443, and the joseon dynasty began in 1392 (ending in 1910 with the Japanese taking control). So it is perfectly correct to say that the characters for "morning calm" would have been used for that kingdom.
While it may or may not be true that the modern name is divorced from its historic meaning and used solely because of the sounds, that is equally true of almost every other place name on the planet. If we are going to state seriously that joseon should have no translation, that is equally true of all the others.
A first attempt with Paint.NET, using the cloning tool, yields an extra Europe.
Until now, I have always used Paint...
Until now, I have always used Paint...
That's incredibly interesting. If you ever flesh it out further, I'd love to see at least a written-out progression of your abbreviated explanation.
I certainly know about Joseon (1392-1910), which was why I specifically mentioned that the one under Yi Seong-gye adopted that nomenclature from its predecessor over a millennia before then, but I was specifically focusing on Gojoseon (2333/1000(?) - 108 BC), supposedly under Dangun Wanggeom, which was originally named "Joseon," and the "Go," which means "old," was later added to distinguish it from its successor(s) (and itself is divided into Dangun and Wiman Joseon). Chinese characters were not systematically introduced to Korea until Sansang of Goguryeo (r. AD 197-227), and while Gojoseon might have used them, there is no evidence that they were used in a systematic manner.
However, I decided to look into the issue further, and remembered that its original capital before Wangggeom Fortress (it shifted locations due to consolidation and wars) was supposedly "Asadal" (아사달/阿斯達), which is assumed to have represented archaic native Korean terminology (disregarding the Chinese meaning) along the lines of "Morning Land/Mountain/City," in which case "Joseon" might have been used by the Chinese to approximate the original Korean meaning. However, this still doesn't explain the "calm."
As a result, the translations should be "Joseon" (untranslated) or "Morning Land" for the North and "Great/Han Nation" for the South.
EDIT: In addition, some of the other countries have been left untranslated, such as Angola and Myanmar, so I don't see why this can't be applied to Korea as well.
EDIT 2: Also, most Korean dynasties have been traditionally transcribed with the pronunciation in mind, not the meaning, with numerous variants, and do not make sense when the latter is applied. For example, "Goguryeo" means "Great Walled City," not "High Beautiful Phrase," while Silla was something like "Seo/Shin Land/Nation" (the exact meaning of "Seo/Shin" is unknown), not "New (Fish)net," and this is supported by the fact that they were also occasionally represented with different characters, specifically two of which are now pronounced as "Guryeo" and "Seorabeol" respectively. For over a millennia, Korea, Japan, and Vietnam pronounced Chinese characters according to their sound, meaning, or sound and meaning, depending on context, although Korea has generally been restricted to using them with both sound and meaning within the last few centuries.
EDIT 3: I forgot one more thing. Hangul's invention in 1443 is technically irrelevant regarding specific terminologies, as Joseon continued to use hanja in official documents until it was annexed in 1910, and it was not until after World War II that Chinese characters eventually fell into disuse in both Koreas, with the most significant shift in the South in the 1980s. In other words, as stated earlier, Chinese characters had been used to represent both Chinese and Korean terms, so their use by itself doesn't mean anything.
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Two Europes? Hasn't the rest of the world suffered enough already?
Firstly, both Europes are near-exclusively communist (Spartacist), and secondly, well... this was a test of the abilities of the Clone tool after I had managed to clone the Iberian Peninsula already.
A Super Byzantine wank. A nation that can take on any timeline. Alien technology, alien immigrants, and continual ISOT's to other timelines certainly helps (or at least THEY manage to dominate when this happens). I've added other borders from a couple of other peoples maps so that it actually looks like they have been there. A couple of victims of the Byzantine conquests include Leyguria, the Kiltik Republik, and even a couple of Trandoshans from Star Wars. The Byzantines call themselves the Grand Imperium now! Darker shades of purple are territories instead of full provinces because the territories in question are either more resistant to Imperium rule, less desirable populations (like higher evolved neanderthals), or the areas infrastructures just aren't at as good of quality or aren't developed enough.
I may post this again if i get end of page syndrome... !!!! Lol
The Byzantines call themselves the Grand Imperium now! Darker shades of purple are territories instead of full provinces because the territories in question are either more resistant to Imperium rule, less desirable populations (like higher evolved neanderthals), or the areas infrastructures just aren't at as good of quality or aren't developed enough.I may post this again if i get end of page syndrome... !!!! Lol
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Dorozhand
Banned
A Super Byzantine wank. A nation that can take on any timeline. Alien technology, alien immigrants, and continual ISOT's to other timelines certainly helps (or at least THEY manage to dominate when this happens). I've added other borders from a couple of other peoples maps so that it actually looks like they have been there. A couple of victims of the Byzantine conquests include Leyguria, the Kiltik Republik, and even a couple of Trandoshans from Star Wars.
I may post this again if i get end of page syndrome... !!!! Lol
Surely Byzantium should be in personal union with a Russia all the way to the Pacific, and if the Romans have finally bested Persia, surely they would continue eastwards to outdo Alexander and conquer India! Why too hasn't Britannia been reclaimed for the Senate and the People of Rome?
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