A Dutch corporal in the KNIL would accept orders of an native superior.
And be OK with it? That runs against everything I've ever read about colonial societies.
The main language of the KNIL and on the submarines of the RN Navy...
Submarines??? Submarine crews were elite, with much technical knowledge. It seems very unlikely that there would be enough qualified natives to form a significant part of the crew - much less so many that the operating language would be Malay.
was Malay, not Dutch, If a comander regardless the level did not master Malay, then his command was quite ineffect.
The Comander in Chief Berenschot was an Indo as many officers of the KNIL and Royal Netherlands Navy were in those days...
He was of Dutch paternity, which makes a huge difference. And (wiki sez) even so, he was the only "Indo" commander in the KNIL.
 
And be OK with it? That runs against everything I've ever read about colonial societies.

Submarines??? Submarine crews were elite, with much technical knowledge. It seems very unlikely that there would be enough qualified natives to form a significant part of the crew - much less so many that the operating language would be Malay.

He was of Dutch paternity, which makes a huge difference. And (wiki sez) even so, he was the only "Indo" commander in the KNIL.
Malay was the trading language - if you wanted to converse with people it was the language to use and the Dutch fully embraced that yes. Colonialism in every region is different - Dutch colonialism was far less harsh in language concerns but far more harsh economically on locals as they forcibly instituted major land reforms in the 1800s that transformed Javanese society and finance in the island. However, they were because of the VOC far more bound to accepting half Bule officials (Indo-Europeans) as that was an established norm from the longevity of their governance in the region.

Also yes - naval crews were majority Malay speaking - it was very common to be majority non-Dutch in crew.

I’m sure you don’t mean to come across as racist but Indonesia definitely didn’t lack for skilled mariners and most technical positions were filled via Master and Apprentice education tracks in those positions
 
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Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
I see the use of common languages has been commented on. One of the biggest problems you have when recruiting the local populous into your colonial army is the language barrier. And this populous can be very varied in faith, custom, and ethnicity, probably one of the reasons why you was able to conquer, occupy, or economically control in their lands in the first place, using the old faithful divide and conquer strategy. What you need is a common tongue, a Lingua Franca, which was often one of the most dominate languages in that area. So the British Indian Army used Urdu, the Dutch East Indies used Malay, and the US organised and trained Philippine Army used Tagalog. For the British and Dutch, this worked, but they did have plenty of years to establish this, while in the Philippines, Tagalog wasn't made the official language until 1937, and in 1941, they were still struggling with it. And before anyone jumps in re American colonialism, perhaps I'd better say colonial/commonwealth.

Nowadays, probably the most spoken Lingua Franca in use is English, and is something the British and Americans among us, often take for granted.
 
MWI 41042206 The Grey Ghost

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
1941, Tuesday 22 April;

The Grey Ghost slid silently along the straits, slowing now, with tugs in attendance as she neared the Naval Base. Given her size, she had delayed her arrival to allow the dawn to rise, making navigation easier. Onlookers, even those who had seen her previously, were struck by her size and despite her wartime configuration, her majestic bearing. It wasn’t the first time she had called, and wouldn’t be the last, indeed the voyage from Australia was becoming a regular thing now.

Officially she was titled HMT P, previously RMS Queen Mary, but all who knew her called her the Grey Ghost. This was a just a quick return visit from Sydney, before she took another longer journey for the Middle East, and it was planned that she would just stay here for a couple of nights only.

Waiting to get off was the entire Australian 23rd Brigade group, consisting of the brigade headquarters, 2/21, 2/22 and 2/40 infantry battalions, 2/14 Field Artillery Regt, 2/11 Field Engineer Coy, 17th AT Bty and associated smaller units. Also, on the ship waiting to land, was both air and ground crew to form RAAF 450 Sqn, and a sizable draft for the Australian Army units already here.

Heavy weapons, equipment and vehicles had already, or would soon arrive on cargo ships, which had sailed independently, and would be married up with their units in the next couple of weeks. With the 22nd Bde Grp already in the Malacca area, the 23rd Bde Group would deploy in the Kluang area, but would have to be accommodated at camps in Singapore for several days, owing to some delays in construction of the camps in Kluang.

Their arrival was another boost to the people of Singapore and Malaya, further evidence of a commitment to defend the colony. The only downside to their arrival was the increased crowing of their commanding officer, Gordon Bennett, who seemed to be trying to fall out with just about every senior British officer, due to his behaviour and attitude.

In addition to this sizeable increase in troop numbers, last Wednesday another small convoy, BM.6, had arrived from Madras, carrying the 22nd Indian Infantry Brigade. This brigade was joining the 9th Indian Division, along with a number of small support units, to complete the division’s makeup baring a third brigade. Also, aboard the ships was the 59th Madras Sappers & Miners Coys and other support units for the 35th Indian Bde, further pack mules, with a limited number of muleteers, and a larger number of new recruits, to be trained as gunners or muleteers. And lastly a third Indian Aux Pioneer battalion, the 13th, which was going straight to Batu Caves cantonment for additional training.
 
I’m sure you don’t mean to come across as racist but Indonesia definitely didn’t lack for skilled mariners...
The East Indies had great numbers of seafarers skilled in operating small sailing craft. Their skills would be utterly irrelevant to operating a submarine stuffed with complex machinery where any mistake can be fatal. The OP noted in his last narrative post that native Malays and Javanese were 94% illiterate.
Its very interesting to compare the British and Dutch attitudes to mix race at this time and in these colonies. The Dutch 'Indo's were seen and treated very much as the equal of a 'full' white European in society, and Berenschot is a good example of how well they did, but he is by no means the exception. The British attitude was poor in the extreme, being extremely class conscience, and being of 'mixed race' was indeed a severe handicap.
The Dutch had been in the Indies much longer than the British in India, and thus more "embedded". There would be more locally born "Dutch", and greater acceptance of race-mixing over the many generations of Dutch rule. Also , perhaps the smaller population base of the Netherlands made race-mixing more significant in the colony.

The British presence was relatively small till the late 1800s. Before 1858, there were prominent Britons in India with native wives, mistresses, even harems: the "white Moguls". That sort of thing disappeared later on. Steamships and the Suez Canal made travel far easier. It was much more practical for women to go out, e.g. " the fishing fleet". When that happened, the racial line became much tighter. The British presence expanded a lot, and theB customs of later British India were established in that relatively short period. I'd guess that there was no comparable expansion of Dutch in the Indies to displace earlier customs.

So it is understandable that mixed-blood "Indos" of Dutch paternity would be accepted as de facto "white" on a fairly broad scale, and that they could be in command over "pure" whites. But I would still question the plausibility of whites or Indos being placed under command of natives. Indeed I would expect Indos to resist any such assignment most strenuously: no one is more jealous of his place on a status ladder than someone partway down.
 
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The East Indies had great numbers of seafarers skilled in operating small sailing craft. Their skills would be utterly irrelevant to operating a submarine stuffed with complex machinery where any mistake can be fatal. The OP noted in his last narrative post that native Malays and Javanese were 94% illiterate.

The Dutch had been in the Indies much longer than the British in India, and thus more "embedded". There would be more locally born "Dutch", and greater acceptance of race-mixing over the many generations of Dutch rule. Also , perhaps the smaller population base of the Netherlands made race-mixing more significant in the colony.

The British presence was relatively small till the late 1800s. Before 1858, there were prominent Britons in India with native wives, mistresses, even harems: the "white Moguls". That sort of thing disappeared later on. Steamships and the Suez Canal made travel far easier. It was much more practical for women to go out, e.g. " the fishing fleet". When that happened, the racial line became much tighter. The British presence expanded a lot, and theB customs of later British India were established in that relatively short period. I'd guess that there was no comparable expansion of Dutch in the Indies to displace earlier customs.

So it is understandable that mixed-blood "Indos" of Dutch paternity would be accepted as de facto "white" on a fairly broad scale, and that they could be in command over "pure" whites. But I would still question the plausibility of whites or Indos being placed under command of natives. Indeed I would expect Indos to resist any such assignment most strenuously: no one is more jealous of his place on a status ladder than someone partway down.
Illiteracy is a questionable statistic in this time period, it only counted for people who could read and write Dutch, most Indonesians were literate in Malay, also it doesn’t mean on its own that your uneducated- you can be a highly skilled mechanic/navigator/weapons handler without knowing how to read either
 
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The East Indies had great numbers of seafarers skilled in operating small sailing craft. Their skills would be utterly irrelevant to operating a submarine stuffed with complex machinery where any mistake can be fatal.
I don't know how it was in the Dutch colonies, but in the British empire a high proportion of the crews of oceangoing merchantmen, both sail and steam, were "lascars" mostly from coastal areas of India with seagoing traditions. Their skills would definitely have been transferable to warships.

White Moguls
Somebody should make a film of William Dalrymple's book - man falls in love with forbidden princess, man dies, princess betrayed by her lover's best friend. It would need a scriptwriter on the level of Shakespeare though
 
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Is it at all possible for Bennett to have an "accident" and need replacing? The man was a menace - to his own side!
He was actually one of the few able commanders the Allies actually had. He was proficient in his job, despite all his bombast. He believed he was in line to command the 2nd AIF at home and that was why he abandoned his men. However Tom Blamey was already on his way home from the Middle East, expecting to become the commander of the 2nd AIF.
 
He also just about encouraged conflict between pre-war Regular and Militia officers; and I cannot forgive him ordering his troops to make no attempt to escape while he did so himself.
 
I don't know how it was in the Dutch colonies, but in the British empire a high proportion of the crews of oceangoing merchantmen, both sail and steam, were "lascars" mostly from coastal areas of India with seagoing traditions. Their skills would definitely have been transferable to warships.
Warships, yes. Gunboats, avisos, minesweepers, cruisers. But submarines are another whole step out there. Submarine crew have always been elite, even in European navies.
Illiteracy is a questionable statistic in this time period, it only counted for people who could read and write Dutch, most Indonesians were literate in Malay...
In 1971, 40.4% of Indonesian adults were illiterate. (US Statistical Abstract, citing UNESCO stats). I very much doubt even that had been achieved by 1940. A quick web search finds this: "In 1945, when Indonesia declared its independence from the colonial regime of the Netherlands, only one Indonesian in twenty could read and write (Napitupulu 1980)." (Abstract for Peter H. Lowenberg , Literacy in Indonesia. Published online by Cambridge University Press: 19 November 2008. Citing Napitupulu, W. P. 1980. "Illiteracy eradication programme in Indonesia.")
also it doesn’t mean on its own that your uneducated- you can be a highly skilled mechanic/navigator/weapons handler without knowing how to read either...
There is a great deal of difference between being a clever shade tree mechanic or crack rifleman as an individual and operating very complex, very specialized machinery under conditions that require precisely coordinated teamwork (or everyone dies).
 
He was actually one of the few able commanders the Allies actually had. He was proficient in his job, despite all his bombast. He believed he was in line to command the 2nd AIF at home and that was why he abandoned his men. However Tom Blamey was already on his way home from the Middle East, expecting to become the commander of the 2nd AIF.
From his biographer, quoted in Wikipedia with citations
"A. B. Lodge, Bennett's biographer, comments in the Australian Dictionary of Biography (ADB): "Because of his temperament, he was considered unsuitable for a semi-diplomatic command, and one that involved subordination to British generals. Bennett was as scathing of British officers as he was of Australian regulars."
also
"In November 1945, Prime Minister Ben Chifley appointed a Royal Commission under Justice G. C. Ligertwood.[46] The Commission concluded that Bennett had disobeyed Percival's order to surrender. Lodge wrote:

While never questioning Bennett's personal courage, Ligertwood concluded that his action had been unjustified. Bennett's stated reason for leaving Singapore was that he had learned how to defeat the Japanese (but had been let down by British and Indian troops) and he was obliged to communicate his knowledge to military authorities. Yet, he had proved no more proficient than other commanders in Malaya and his tactics were outdated. Just as important to him was his wish to lead the Australian army, a consuming aspiration which had been sharpened by not being given an early command. His prejudice against regular officers and his ambition clouded his professional judgement at the most important point in his career. When his most cherished goals were in tatters, he convinced himself that blame for his failure lay with others.[3]"
His loathing of the Permanent Army officers also lead him to dismiss the advice of his SO1 Ops, who pre-war, had been the Chief Tactics instructor of the Australian Army, as someone who had no idea of the real world and whose opinion was worthless.
Not sure why you insist he was one of the abler commanders? And before anyone raises the point about his men, my father was 8th Div. He was not that fond of Bennet, but then again, what would he know, he was only a private soldier.
 
He also just about encouraged conflict between pre-war Regular and Militia officers; and I cannot forgive him ordering his troops to make no attempt to escape while he did so himself.
Yes, that was one of the unfortunate things he did which told most against him in the inquiry held after his escape from Singapore.
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
Overheard in Raffles Long Bar, "Ah yes, that Australian chappie, Bennett, I believe, rather an uncouth rascal, I'm told".
"Yes, and did you know his first name is Gordon!"
"No, never, Gordon Bennett!, well who would have believed it".
 
MW 41042411 The Shipyards

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
1941, Thursday 24 April;

The Navy-Blue Humber Snipe staff car pulled up, Layton’s pennant fluttering in the gentle breeze. A Lieutenant jumped out and opened the door, Layton and Rear Admiral Drew climbed out. They were down by the Kallang River, at Tanjong Rhu, where the Thornycroft, Vaughan and Walkers shipbuilding yards were located. Orders had been placed for a variety of different small warships. Thornycroft had Fairmile B’s, HDML’s and smaller launches to build. Walkers had HDML’s and smaller boats, while Vaughan were building MMS (motor minesweeper’s) of 245 tons.

Thornycroft were well established, and had already provided a number of boats, the other two had only previously dealt with commercial orders, and would begin to delivery completed craft sometime in the summer. The orders, with the promise of more to come, could only be met by expansion of their shipyard facilities, and a big expansion at that.

There was construction everywhere, some new roads had been laid down, many still dirt tracks, but gradually they were concreted, no bitumen overlay, while newly erected poles carrying power cables, and telephone lines, stood along the way. They led to an increasingly number of new slips, with their associated new sheds, and an assortment of buildings being built. The big boat building sheds were wooden framework, with open sides and corrugated roofs, with windows cut in the roof to provide ventilation.

And the noise coming from the shipyards that already existed there, spoke of sawing timber, drilling, derricks and cranes swinging loads, and Chinese workers. Much work had been manual, but increasingly now electrical saws, sanders, woodworking tools etc imported from Canada and the USA were being installed, speeding up the work immeasurably.

Layton and Drew were touring the yards to see how the work was progressing, managing directors, naval architects, shipwrights, in tow, anxious to explain delays, and how they were overcoming problems. They were looking at a part built Fairmile B, a shipwright explaining its construction. The planking, deckhouses, engine beds and bearings, was Douglas Fir from Oregon, while for timbers and gunwales, they used Canadian Rock Elm, both imported from Vancouver. Local woods being used were the Siamese Teak, for the decks and for keels and stems, and Balau, a Malayan hard wood.

The tour over, it was back in the Humber, and off to Keppel docks, to see the Singapore Harbour Board’s repair yard, which was also expanding, to build ships, with a very unfinished yard, but already they had an order for a 300-ton harbour tug and a 1000-ton mooring vessel. And as the shipyards expanded so did the labour force of workers, almost entirely Chinese. The pay was good, and valuable trade skills to be learnt, so they had the pick of the brightest wanting to work. Some came direct from the trade schools, others learnt on the job, but all were keen to work.
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
Overheard in Raffles Long Bar, "Ah yes, that Australian chappie, Bennett, I believe, rather an uncouth rascal, I'm told".
"Yes, and did you know his first name is Gordon!"
"No, never, Gordon Bennett!, well who would have believed it".
To help those who missed this, see

1.22 mins into it ;)
 

Driftless

Donor
I did not know that!

The archaic American equivalent is "Godfrey Daniel!!", as used by WC Fields. He wasn't the only one, but the most famous for its use.

(From Youtube - about 18 seconds in, or so)
 
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