Italico Valore - A more successful 1848 revolution in Italy - a TL

Deleted member 147289

This TL was good but the handling of the American Civil War just ruined it. The North had no need to Secede and they knew it. Secession was the desperate last gamble of a South that knew it's chances were fast dwindling.

If you'd just ignored the US and keep events in the Americas in schedule until a ALT Spanish-American War the story would have been much better.
Believe me there are more absurd tls than this one. If you'll stick around for the ride you'll see how America's story unfolds otherwise sorry if that ruined it for you and I hope that you can find what you're looking for.

Is the Russian military more modernized that OTL or does it still focus on numbers over tech causing weapons and supply shortages of OTL
The Russian military is quite modern OTL, more than OTL 1914, but it's still lagging behind in technology and tactics than the other major powers. Russia's advantages are it's massive manpower and territory and while the Russians are able to intervene outside the empire, the main strategy is to lure the enemies inside and destroy them just like Napoleon.

Russian industry is much more developed ITTL, along with infrastructure and naval facilities, making large scale production possible. Currently the army is well supplied and equipped but problems will surely arise once millions of conscripts join the ranks
 
This TL was good but the handling of the American Civil War just ruined it. The North had no need to Secede and they knew it. Secession was the desperate last gamble of a South that knew it's chances were fast dwindling.

If you'd just ignored the US and keep events in the Americas in schedule until a ALT Spanish-American War the story would have been much better.

Every author could decide to lead a certain country wherever they wanted to, and decide to talk about it if they feel so. If you wanted a different alternate America, then you should search another TL to read.
 
Every author could decide to lead a certain country wherever they wanted to, and decide to talk about it if they feel so. If you wanted a different alternate America, then you should search another TL to read.
I didn't know you were an authority on freedom of expression & opinion, I can read whatever I want and I will express myself however I want. How you feel about that is a business only you care for.
 

Horseshoe

Banned
How large is the Russian navy in TTL with better naval facilities and is TTL Russian Navy a actual threat vs OTL when they were a paper navy that was mostly destroyed during the Russian japanese war of 1905 and even almost causing a British Russian war as well OTL making them a actual naval threat to Japan or British interested in Pacific or north Sea that OTL making it another reason that the British and Japan allied or is the Russian threat that UK and Japan see only a land threat
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Every author could decide to lead a certain country wherever they wanted to, and decide to talk about it if they feel so. If you wanted a different alternate America, then you should search another TL to read.

I didn't know you were an authority on freedom of expression & opinion, I can read whatever I want and I will express myself however I want. How you feel about that is a business only you care for.
Y'all both better start playing the ball. Now.
 

Deleted member 147289

How large is the Russian navy in TTL with better naval facilities and is TTL Russian Navy a actual threat vs OTL when they were a paper navy that was mostly destroyed during the Russian japanese war of 1905 and even almost causing a British Russian war as well OTL making them a actual naval threat to Japan or British interested in Pacific or north Sea that OTL making it another reason that the British and Japan allied or is the Russian threat that UK and Japan see only a land threat
At the moment (1913-1914) the Russian Navy has six dreadnoughts: two in the Baltic, two in the Black sea and two in the Far East, with at least four more in dockyard and is currently developing new designs. Russia is a much more industrialized nation ITTL and has manpower, brains and equipment to build large ships for their fleets. If the Germans OTL thought that Russia would catch up in industry by 1920, TTL's British fear that if left unchecked, Russian military expansion might eclipse the British fleet and become a problem. Also, with airplanes being constantly developed and probably used for war later, the Russians would have the home advantage in both the Baltic and the Black sea.

There was no Russo-Japanese war ITTL but the Russians are flexing their muscles occupying Manchuria to secure the Far East and snatching Persia from British jaws with careful diplomacy, thus seriously threatening India. The Russian "threat" is real in Anglo-Japanese eyes: the former feels that their most prized colony is in danger of foreign invasion and is building up India as much as it can in order to manage to protect itself from an invasion while the latter sees it's interests in China threatened by the Russian advance, as the situation along the border is pretty much uneasy and a minor incident could quickly escalate in something more awful
 

Horseshoe

Banned
last question What do the locals in India think of of the British buildup in dia in case of a future Russian invasion?
 

Deleted member 147289

last question What do the locals in India think of of the British buildup in dia in case of a future Russian invasion?
India has been under development for the last 10 years, with the British strengthening their hold on the subcontinent by promoting the nascent middle class, both Indian and Anglo-Indian, in order to break the power of the princes. Also, the governor has proven capable in improving infrastructure, extending railways, building docks and modernizing the main cities such Dehli, Bombay and Calcutta; there is a substantial British migration to India, especially civil serveants but also soldiers, traders and experts.
 
62. CHINESE CIVIL WAR AND BEIYANG ERA

Deleted member 147289

62. CHINESE CIVIL WAR AND BEIYANG ERA

The causes of the Chinese civil war are to be found in the first opium war, a harsh awakening for a Qing dynasty that had always considered itself masters of the world, unaware of the developments that were taking place in the West; the consequences of the conflict such as natural disasters, the Taiping rebellion, the unequal treaties and the Wushu revolt were interpreted as the loss of the mandate of Heaven by the ruling dynasty. It was for this reason that on the death of Empress Cixi the nobles of the court, in agreement with the Beiyang army and the rising elites, prevented the coronation of Prince Chungsun in 1908 with a palace coup, called the "Jade Revolution", exiling the prince (accompanied by his guardian Zhang Min) to Europe.

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A group photo of the conspirators, whch started to call themselves revolutionaries. Li Wei, head of the Beiyang Army, is in the middle of the group.

Having achieved its purpose, the unity of the conspirators failed, not being able to choose who should take the imperial crown: the strongest candidacy among those present was that of Li Wei, general of the Beiyang army, the most modern and powerful army of all China but others feared the increase in military power fearing a complete takeover. The outbreak of hostilities occurred when Manchurian troops expelled the Beiyang delegation from Peking; when news of the clash spread among the nation, the order collapsed and numerous provincial governors proclaimed secession from the central government, as did Mongolian, Hui, Uighur and Tibetan nationalist groups. The regions fell one by one under the control of secessionists, Manchu nobles and what remained of the Beiyang army after the expulsion from the capital. The situation was exacerbated by the Russian invasion of Manchuria to secure its investments in the region threatened by escalating hostilities.

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Despite being formally under China, Shanghai and it's surroundings were administred by the Internationa China Authority, leaving the flourishing city untouched by the chaos.

The only oases of peace in the chaos of the middle kingdom were the western concessions along the coast: extraneous to the court policy of the Qing Empire these remained calm during the growing instability, protected by European ships and soldiers against any attempted conquest. Precisely for this reason they became the favorite destination of tens of thousands of refugees who tried to escape the collapse of order by taking refuge within them and soon the flow of people was so high that the individual concessions could no longer deal with them alone. The International China Authority, an international body located in Shanghai and present in all concessions, intervened in this void and began to effectively redistribute refugees, favoring the development of coastal cities with an increase in population and helping those who wanted to emigrate to the Republic of Pacifica. The rising economy and the prestige obtained by the humanitarian enterprise widely documented by the newspapers made the ICA the main foreign organization in China, so much so that in 1916 the concessions and the authorities signed a treaty to divide local administration between the civil service and organization, chaired by Lord Erringwright.

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Beiyang troops marching in central China. The superiority in equipment, morale and training of the Army was unmatched by any other force, making them the most formidable armed force in all of China

The Beiyang army, expelled from the capital, withdrew to Guangdong, subjecting most of the rebel governors in its path to its power, coming to control a large part of southern China. Li Wei established his headquarters in Canton, from which he organized the expansion, financing and arming of the Beiyang army which used the period 1909-1911 to prepare for the march north to retake the capital. What the Canton arsenal was unable to produce was procured through the ICA which had contacts with the major arms manufacturers in the world, importing heavy equipment from all over Europe. In the spring of 1911 Li Wei decided that the time was ripe to launch his own campaign against the Manchu people who were starting to be frowned upon by the population as they were considered a continuation of the Qing dynasty.The first battle of the campaign took place around Nanping where a manchu force composed of twice as many opponents it was defeated by Beiyang troops. Battle after battle Li Wei always defeated the Manchu people, being welcomed as a liberator by the population and gaining the loyalty of the northern governors, entering Beijing on May 15, 1912 after the last great battle of the war in Cangzhou, at the head of his 300.000 soldiers in a great parade.

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The Great Parade of Li Wei ended in front of the Forbidden City where his troops acclaimed their heroic general.

Having conquered the capital Li Wei spent the year consolidating his power by starting a repression campaign against Manchus, forcing those who did not want to be killed to flee to Russian Manchuria and sending the Beiyang army to restore central order to the country. In 1913 a semblance of law and order returned to China and on May 15 of the same year Li Wei was crowned emperor ushering in the Beiyang era, during which the reborn Chinese empire continued the westernization begun during the Qing era with an onset of industrialization. along the coasts and modernization of agriculture in the hinterland, the creation of a national assembly elected by 5% of the population, the damage of the civil war was repaired and western style fashion and customs started to gain traction in China. The Hui people and the Mongols submitted voluntarily to imperial power fearing the Beiyang army, but the Uighurs ended up under Russian protection while Tibet was protected by the British Empire. During this period, well-known Chinese exiled politicians such as Teng Fei Hong returned to their homeland organizing political parties and organizations to participate in various elections, introducing an embryo of democratic culture among Chinese non-noble elites.

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The Beiyang flag would grow to become the most recognizable symbol of modern China

Li Wei's death in 1920 opened a succession crisis: the emperor was left a widower and had no known surviving children, making the passage of the crown disputed between the general's two deputies, Cai Chenguang and Yu Zemin. Unable to find a solution and ready to fight it out, they were beaten by Teng Fei Hong who, together with the deputies of the national assembly, proclaimed the Republic of China. The proclamation of the republic was welcomed in the south of the country but the rest of the nation plunged back into chaos, with the Beiyang army engaged in a fratricidal struggle in support of its imperial candidates and local particularisms that tore the country apart. Teng and his supporters fled to Nanking where they started a provisional government in hopes of reclaiming all of China someday.
 
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Deleted member 147289

We have reached the 1920s!

I suggest re reading chapter 61 as some things in France and Austria have changed.

Beiyang might seem like OTL but I really liked the name and have very little understanding of Chinese words, so I went with what sounded better
 
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63. THE CISPLATINE WAR

Deleted member 147289

63. THE CISPLATINE WAR

The economic take-off of Argentina in the early 1900s brought it into competition with the Brazilian Empire for the position of the leading nation of the South American continent: Argentine agricultural products were in great demand abroad and the intensification of trade produced an increase of wealth which resulted in continuous industrialization. The increase in prosperity and prospects for the inhabitants led to ever more consistent migratory waves directed to Argentina which boosted the local population. The increase in economic power translated into an ever greater political and diplomatic weight that Manuel Jimenez, elected in 1910 to the presidency on a Confederal platform, decided to exploit to impose Argentina as a great South American power.

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Argentina was an interesting prospect for european immigrants, especially from Spain, Southern Italy and France.

The Confederal political platform envisaged a "return to colonial origins" by establishing a political, economic and military union between Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay, nations that are close and easily influenced by a great power. The success of the confederal idea in Argentina shook all over the south of the continent, galvanizing the parties adhering to the idea in other nations: the most important success occurred in 1912 in Paraguay with the election of the Confederal Conservatives who immediately entered into negotiations with Argentina to formalize the confederation of the two states, which took place in 1913 with the agreements of Paranà.

But the real prize was Uruguay: Jimenez spent a lot of money to finance the supporters of the confederal idea, leading them to electoral success in the 1914 elections which ended with the election of Luis Blanco, a friend of Jimenez, to the presidency. The newly elected president immediately entered into negotiations to confederate Uruguay with Argentina but the idea was not digested by the armed forces who feared the supremacy of the Argentines so general Lopez orchestrated a coup that overthrew the government and established a dictatorship temporary held by the anti-confederal military.

Argentina denounced the incident and threatened to have its army intervene if the Uruguayan military did not step aside in early June. The empire of Brazil was following the situation with great interest: the inclusion of Uruguay in the Argentine project would neutralize any buffer state between Argentina and Brazil, making an Argentine invasion of Brazil much more likely. It was for this reason that the Brazilian government guaranteed the independence of Uruguay and threatened Argentina to intervene. The carioca threats were ignored as Jimenez, aware of Argentina's military superiority (Argentina had a strong war industry as well as a lot of European material, mainly French and English such as aircraft and automatic rifles), decided to proceed anyway with the invasion that began on the 2nd May 1914 with the crossing of the Uruguay River. At the time of the ford the three nations declared war, starting the Cisplatin war.

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Soldiers from Argentina cheerfully march into Uruguay.

The Brazilian army was slow to mobilize and intervene as no one believed in the seriousness of the Argentine threats. This slowness was the death knell of Uruguay which, with an army equal to 1/10 of the Argentine one, had no hope of slowing its advance and the few battles fought on the road to Montevideo led only to heavy defeats that disintegrated morale and the unity of the Uruguayan armed forces. The fall of the capital in July 1914 left the Uruguayans to garrison the Melo-Tacuarembo-Riviera line, the last stop before the border with Brazil. The redeployment of half a million Argentines on the line took a couple of weeks, giving the first four Brazilian divisions time to arrive on the line and guard it.

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Brazilian professional soldiers in position in Uruguay during summer 1914

The war could have ended there with the restoration of the Confederal party in Uruguay and the annexation of the remaining territory to Brazil, but Jimenez preferred to continue the hostilities, convinced that the war was the perfect opportunity to deal a fatal blow to Brazil and subject it to Argentine influence, therefore ordered a new offensive to be carried out in September, with the aim of conquering the state of Rio Grande do Sul, one of the most populous and richest regions in Brazil.

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The Argentine military had invested in creating an Air Force, one of the first in the world, by buying or producing planes. On the contrast, the Brazilians had no such thing at the outbreak of the war

The offensive began on September 14, 1914 with a long bombardment of artillery on Brazilian positions, located through the use of airplanes as scouts for the artillery. Argentine airplanes were basically untouchable: small arms had difficulty hitting them, and their enemies were equipped with few anti-aircraft guns. After the bombardment, infantry advanced equipped with French-made FAM automatic rifles which proved excellent in suppressing enemies and their rate of fire greatly increased the firepower of individual infantry squads giving the Argentines a distinct advantage over their enemies. Archieving breakthrough in multiple points, the Argentine begun advancing into Brazil, arriving in Santa Maria in early December due to a lack of infrastructure and land that had to be crossed on foot or on horseback with railways limited to connecting major cities.

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Argentine heavy artillery shells Porto Alegre during Christmas 1914

In January 1915 Porto Alegre was conquered after a hard street by street battle, giving the Argentines the control of most of Rio Grande do Sul. The Brazilian situation was getting worse by the day with the army unable to stop the Argentine advance: the years of cuts to the armed forces, little training and non-cutting edge equipment were showing. In a moment of great charisma and national unity Dom Pedro Alfonso, Emperor of Brazil, urged the population to resist the Argentine aggressor, asking every able man with no distinction of race or religion to join the armed forces to repel the invader in one of his best speeches to the nation. The economy began to be converted for war purposes while huge military orders were placed in the American Republic, Italy and the British Empire, in the hope of acquiring cutting-edge material to counter the Argentine advance.

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Portrait of Dom Pedro Alfonso, Emperor of Brazil, in military uniform


The combination of aerial reconnaissance, artillery support and automatic rifles had given the Argentines a considerable advantage in the field, as noted by the numerous military observers of the great powers present on the continent, eager to see the tools of modern warfare in operation. Until then the war had been relatively mobile with the overcoming of all static defenses and the use of new technologies seemed to confirm this style of warfare. Everything changed in April 1915 when the Argentines arrived at the Iguazu and Negro rivers during the pursuit of the Brazilian army retreating to the north: here the cariocas had decided to exploit the hilly terrain to create static defensive positions and, helped by abundance of material as any available equipment had been sent south, they managed to stop the enemy advance and prevent its ford in the bloody battle of the two rivers, which lasted until May 1915.

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Brazilian soldiers rest during a break between battles on the Iguazu-Negro line

When the Argentines realized they could not cross the rivers they dug defensive lines identical to the Brazilian ones, creating a parallel system of trenches that went from the Atlantic coast to the border with Paraguay, which remained neutral in the conflict even if confederated with Argentina. Three more times the Argentines tried to cross the river and three times they were pushed back by the Brazilians. Although these were pyrrhic victories, Brazil could afford them since it had double the Argentine population, while the Argentine losses were hardly replaceable: the high quality of the army had to be exchanged for a greater availability of men and the reserves of modern weapons soon ran out, leaving bolt action weapons for conscripts.

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The frontlines at the end of 1915. Despite being confederated with Argentina, Paraguay was still an independent country and had not been called to war by Jimenez

Both sides entrenched themselves for the rest of the year, leaving room for sporadic bursts of rifle fire across the river or for the increasingly frequent aerial combat that took place in the skies of Paranà between Argentine aircraft of national or French manufacture and Brazilian aircraft usually coming from Britain and the American Republic: these first fights took place initially between aviators who fired with light weapons and then evolved into real dogfights between aircraft equipped with machine guns (fighters) or bombs (bombers) for ground attack.
 

Deleted member 147289

What are the chances that this war stays in South America?
High, this is a great chance to study new weapons and see how they fare on the field, while evaluating tactics. There's a large number of observers but neither Argentina or Brazil are allied or closely tied to a great power, they prefer to have a degree of independence.
 

Horseshoe

Banned
What going in France , Russia and Austria three countries know for their political instability and full of anarchist, syndicalist , communist and other political parties/agitators OTL pre WW1?
 

Deleted member 147289

Then you're looking for chapter 61.

How's the story's pacing?
 
64. THE CISPLATINE WAR II

Deleted member 147289

64. THE CISPLATINE WAR II

Pedro Alfonso asked his generals to go on the offensive as soon as possible: Brazil was losing quite badly and morale at home was starting to fall as the military proved unable to stall the Argentinians. The main problem for any counterattack was the defensive line along the Iguazu-Negro system that were too strong to be forced in a direct attack that would have ended in tragedy; it was therefore necessary to find an alternative route of attack and General Justino Pinto had the solution: an attack through Paraguay.

Paraguay had remained neutral in the conflict but was formally linked to Argentina by the confederation treaty it signed in 1912, making it complicit in their neighbor's actions. It was clear that Jimenez had not called his ally to cover his flank and concentrate his troops along the coast, a mistake that would cost him dearly. Thus it was that in February 1916 Pinto and 150,000 Brazilian soldiers accompanied by artillery, airplanes and cavalry entered northern Paraguay a few hours after the formal declaration of war. The small Paraguayan army, could do little to stop the Brazilian advance: a desperate defense attempt was made in Asuncion but the Brazilians surrounded the city and continued towards the Paranà river to strike the Argentinians on the rear. The invasion of Paraguay, a formally independent and neutral nation, set a dangerous precedent.

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A Brazilian gun crew enjoys a few minutes of rest during the battle of Santa Maria

The Argentine command had no reserves to cover its flank from the surprise attack and was forced to reduce its front line to re-deploy its troops, so in March the Argentine army began to withdraw from the Iguazu-Negro system towards Rio Grande do Sul, chased by the Brazilians who had hastily given chase. Pinto's army and the main Brazilian and Argentine contingents clashed in the three month long battle of Rio Grande do Sul, in which more than 900,000 men clashed in the final battle for control of southern Brazil: heavy fighting took place in Porto Alegre, Santa Maria (who changed hands four times) and Pelotas while regular battles and ambushes took place in the countryside where Argentines were harassed by Brazilian snipers who tied down a substantial part of the army and the Air Force was virtually destroyed during the battle, suffering from Brazilian attrition and aces flying American and British aircraft. In the autumn of 1916 the Argentines were expelled from Brazil and a revolt in Uruguay forced them to establish a new front on the river of the same name, entrenching themselves and repulsing the Brazilian ford attempt.

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Brazilian dreadnought Dom Pedro II was the protagonist of the battle of Punta del Este, being imprinted in the mids of Brazilians as it limped back to Rio de Janeiro

With the army on the defensive and the air force annihilated, the Argentine navy was the only card in the government's hands: with two British-made dreadnoughts and four heavy cruisers, it could control the Rio de la Plata estuary and shell Montevideo, as happened in October 1916. The Brazilian Imperial Navy was ordered to sail and face their enemy in a decisive battle off Punta del Este. The two fleets met around 10 a.m. and the dreadnoughts began shelling each other from a distance, only to be joined by the cruisers who added their broadsides as the destroyers attempted to launch some lucky torpedoes at the enemy ships. The dreadnoughts proved invulnerable to the smaller ships, leading them to concentrate their fire on each other once the smaller ships had been sunk or driven away: by 5 p.m. the two fleets were significantly reduced in number but the Argentine one suffered the loss of both dreadnoughts, while the Brazilians lost one ship but saved another one, albeit damaged, the French-made Dom Pedro II. The Argentine navy withdrew to Buenos Aires as the fog fell but, having lost almost all of its capital ships, it was now relegated to a coastal defense force, leaving control of the seas to the Brazilians.

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On the left an Argentine soldier with an MP-17, submachine guns proved real game changers in trenches; on the right a Brazilian Char, manifactured in France, chariots were one of the most influential inventions to be tested in the war

1917 saw the introduction of two new weapons on the battlefield, the submachine gun and the Char. The first had been requested by the Argentines in 1915 after the semi automatic rifles had proven too bulky to handle during trench sweeping and close quarters and organized a competition between the main European arms factories, a competition won by the Germans with their MP-17, but the first models began to arrive when the Argentine army was already on the defensive. The weapons were distributed to NCOs and raiders, proving very effective in clearing out enemy trenches. The Char was a French project for an armored tracked vehicle capable of crossing multiple terrains and provide fire support to advancing infantry, acting as a mobile gun; with the outbreak of the Platine War the engineers had modified the designs to make the vehicle capable of crossing the trenches and in 1916/7 the first models began to come out of the factories. The Brazilians were very interested in that type of weapon as they suffered frightening losses every time they tried to storm the Argentine trenches and the French government was interested in field testing their Chars (or Chariots in English or Carri in Italian), a sample of 20 vehicles to Brazil along with army observers and engineers. The tanks went into action in January 1917 at the city of Mercedes and proved invulnerable to Argentine fire, transforming what should have been a bloody assault into a relatively easy attack, proving the effectiveness of the new vehicle on the battlefield. The chariots led the Brazilian advance into the province of Entre Rios, forcing the Argentines to establish a new defensive line on the Parana River.

With the hopes of a Platine Confederation gone up in smoke, Manuel Jimenez ordered his commanders to plan the defense of Buenos Aires and a guerrilla campaign inland, but the generals had now realized that the war was lost and an all-out defense would only killed tens of thousands of soldiers and civillians, so on June 24, 1917, the army carried out a coup, deposing Jimenez and starting peace talks with Brazil. After more than three million deaths (mainly civilians), the Cisplatina War ended with the Treaty of Montevideo, in which Argentina renounced any claim or future attempt to build a Platine Confederation, would pay large war indemnities to Brazil and Uruguay for the damage caused by the war, limited its armed forces for the next 23 years to 200,000 men and would transfer control of Entre Rios to Brazil, which was granted moderate autonomy given the cultural difference, Paraguay ended up in the Brazilian orbit and obtained the Argentine Chaco. In 1918 the pro-Brazilian Uruguayan parliament asked the imperial government to be annexed as an autonomous province, a request that Pedro Alfonso and the Brazilian conservatives were more than happy to accept. With the victory, Brazil definitively cemented its position as hegemon. of the South American continent.

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The Southern Cone after the Cisplatine War
 
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Deleted member 147289

Well, that was quite the reversal.
Indee, Argentina held quite a lot considering that they had both a population and industrial deficit compared to Brazil that exploited them in the long run to beat the Argentine army who, once it had lost it's technological edge was on par with Brazil
 
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