Into the Cincoverse - The Cinco de Mayo EU Thread and Wikibox Repository

Sacrifice (1987 film)
Sacrifice is a 1987 Confederate historical epic film directed by Bill George and starring Andie McDowell, Julie Boyd and Ned Beatty in lead roles. Set in the 20 years between 1916 and 1936, it chronicles the end of the Great American War, the postwar Confederacy, the Redemption Era and finally the rise to power of Huey Long in the early 1930s through the perspective of two former Confederate sorority sisters in Georgia.

The film follows Eleonora "Little El" Rainey (McDowell), a middle-class girl from Augusta through her frosty relationship with upper-class schoolmate Catherine McGrath (Boyd), the daughter of a powerful Georgia planter and state senator, starting with the order of the Governor of Georgia for all women to remain on the university campus as the United States Army approaches Athens and their stranding there under occupation during the March to the Sea, followed by the temporary closure of the University of Georgia due to the end of the war. McGrath's husband is killed in the war and her family rendered destitute by a slave uprising and the burning of their plantation by John Pershing's forces, and she is forced to resort to prostituting herself to American soldiers in Athens and, later, the ruins of Atlanta in order to survive. Rainey returns to Augusta, where she before long falls in with local partisans and hillboys, including a man whom she marries before seeing him killed in the occupation and their child stillborn. A smuggler thereafter, Rainey and McGrath eventually reconnect in Atlanta, where they are at opposite ends of, and eventually the same side, of a power struggle in the city between its powerful City Commissioner Robert Doakes (Beatty), organized crime elements both white and Black, and the rising tide of anger at poverty that culminates in Huey Long's rise.

The film, clocking in at 191 minutes, was praised upon release for its dealing with considerably more sexual themes than was common in Confederate cinema at the time; an international release cut at 168 minutes was hailed in Britain as "the finest output of Dixiewood in decades." However, in the United States, the movie's release came at the crescendo of the Boycott Movement and movie theaters were picketed; it was strongly protested by Black political and cultural leaders on both sides of the Ohio for its portrayal of Blacks as being "spectacularly prejudiced" and especially for two extended portrayals of lynchings and a scene in which Boyd's character, Cate McGrath, has sex with several Black men consecutively for money (a scene abridged or excised entirely in many Confederate cuts in order to be released in theaters). While a star-making turn for both McDowell and Boyd, the movie failed to be nominated for any Academy Awards even with wide distribution in the United States eventually being secured by RKO. On the occasion of its 2012 limited and digitally remastered re-release, with the full cut, in the United States, film critic Roger Ebert noted, "It is a towering accomplishment of Confederate cinema; a view of two seminal decades of Dixie life through the eyes of two women who alternate hating each other and loving each other, mistrusting each other and relying on each other, but fundamentally in a time when cinema was profoundly male it is a story of two women. It is also, to put it bluntly, a remarkably racist film, unapologetic in its portrayal of Black Yankee soldiers in particular as animalistic savages and Dixie freedmen as people who were better off under slavery and ought to re-learn their place. It is a film of its time and place, and that place was most certainly not the United States of 1987, and as the conclusion of segregation just a few years later would suggest, probably not of the Confederate States of 1987, either." It is regarded as the last major piece of segregation-era Confederate art that maintains the social mores and attitudes of its time.

(@traveller76 gave me the idea for this - his thoughts have been revised and written into a full post)
 
Sacrifice is a 1987 Confederate historical epic film directed by Bill George and starring Andie McDowell, Julie Boyd and Ned Beatty in lead roles. Set in the 20 years between 1916 and 1936, it chronicles the end of the Great American War, the postwar Confederacy, the Redemption Era and finally the rise to power of Huey Long in the early 1930s through the perspective of two former Confederate sorority sisters in Georgia.

The film follows Eleonora "Little El" Rainey (McDowell), a middle-class girl from Augusta through her frosty relationship with upper-class schoolmate Catherine McGrath (Boyd), the daughter of a powerful Georgia planter and state senator, starting with the order of the Governor of Georgia for all women to remain on the university campus as the United States Army approaches Athens and their stranding there under occupation during the March to the Sea, followed by the temporary closure of the University of Georgia due to the end of the war. McGrath's husband is killed in the war and her family rendered destitute by a slave uprising and the burning of their plantation by John Pershing's forces, and she is forced to resort to prostituting herself to American soldiers in Athens and, later, the ruins of Atlanta in order to survive. Rainey returns to Augusta, where she before long falls in with local partisans and hillboys, including a man whom she marries before seeing him killed in the occupation and their child stillborn. A smuggler thereafter, Rainey and McGrath eventually reconnect in Atlanta, where they are at opposite ends of, and eventually the same side, of a power struggle in the city between its powerful City Commissioner Robert Doakes (Beatty), organized crime elements both white and Black, and the rising tide of anger at poverty that culminates in Huey Long's rise.

The film, clocking in at 191 minutes, was praised upon release for its dealing with considerably more sexual themes than was common in Confederate cinema at the time; an international release cut at 168 minutes was hailed in Britain as "the finest output of Dixiewood in decades." However, in the United States, the movie's release came at the crescendo of the Boycott Movement and movie theaters were picketed; it was strongly protested by Black political and cultural leaders on both sides of the Ohio for its portrayal of Blacks as being "spectacularly prejudiced" and especially for two extended portrayals of lynchings and a scene in which Boyd's character, Cate McGrath, has sex with several Black men consecutively for money (a scene abridged or excised entirely in many Confederate cuts in order to be released in theaters). While a star-making turn for both McDowell and Boyd, the movie failed to be nominated for any Academy Awards even with wide distribution in the United States eventually being secured by RKO. On the occasion of its 2012 limited and digitally remastered re-release, with the full cut, in the United States, film critic Roger Ebert noted, "It is a towering accomplishment of Confederate cinema; a view of two seminal decades of Dixie life through the eyes of two women who alternate hating each other and loving each other, mistrusting each other and relying on each other, but fundamentally in a time when cinema was profoundly male it is a story of two women. It is also, to put it bluntly, a remarkably racist film, unapologetic in its portrayal of Black Yankee soldiers in particular as animalistic savages and Dixie freedmen as people who were better off under slavery and ought to re-learn their place. It is a film of its time and place, and that place was most certainly not the United States of 1987, and as the conclusion of segregation just a few years later would suggest, probably not of the Confederate States of 1987, either." It is regarded as the last major piece of segregation-era Confederate art that maintains the social mores and attitudes of its time.

(@traveller76 gave me the idea for this - his thoughts have been revised and written into a full post)
Good to see Ebert's cancer butterflied away. What about Siskel? If their show still existed ITTL, do they still go after the Protestants?
 
This movie sounds both incredibly problematic and great. Not quite as good as Gone With The Wind because it doesn't have Clark Gable, but I can see myself loving Ned Beatty's performance.
 
This movie sounds both incredibly problematic and great. Not quite as good as Gone With The Wind because it doesn't have Clark Gable, but I can see myself loving Ned Beatty's performance.
Clark Gable reminds me of Önder Somer (one of our Yeşilçam movie stars who mostly played the handsome and rich bad guy whom the love interest of the main character/female protagonist needs to stay away from or bad things will happen because of him, he quit filmmaking due to the film sector being filled with... let's say adult movies in the late 1970s) mixed with Metin Serezli (one of our other actors, who played in Yeşilçam as a good guy who decreased his movies as time went on, though he never quit acting, and played in theaters, and also voiced "Taci" in one of our children tv series things, a human whose wife turned him into a bulldog in a fit of rage) but when he had mustache.
I also loved the update, and I welcome more cultural stuff as time goes on!
This is all I wanted to say.
 
Texas property bubble
The Texas property bubble refers to the rapid growth and subsequent collapse of the Texas real estate market, particularly the construction of commercial buildings and suburban residential homes. The bubble is generally viewed as beginning in the late 1990s, perhaps as early as 1995, and concluded in 2017. The end of the bubble and Texas' subsequent economic contraction following it is generally viewed as one of the most critical issues facing Texas economically and socially today.

The Texan economy, particularly since its independence from the Confederate States in 1916, has generally been defined by periods of boom and bust, including land runs and speculative real estate development, though for much of the 20th century it was concentrated in oil rights and production rather than by building. The Republic of Texas' state services grew substantially in the 1940s and 1950s and were dependent on petroleum and gas windfall taxes as well as a high land value tax that specifically exempted agricultural land from taxation, creating a "greenbelt effect" around many cities that saw landowners use agricultural land to avoid taxation and created crowded, expensive cities in Dallas, Fort Worth, Austin and Houston that were unable to grow outwards. Unusually low payroll, corporate and personal taxes by OECD standards exacerbated this issue with monied Texans able to spend freely to bid up real estate in cities, making "buildable, taxable land" highly valuable while also creating a government incentive to keep land values high for tax revenues. Revisions to the land value tax and a major relaxation of the agricultural land exemption in 1990 came at exactly the peak of the early 1990s oil bubble, which dramatically ballooned Texas government revenues and was seen as driving the county's economy; the mid-1990s mini-glut and the collapse of oil prices in 2002-03 due to the global economic crisis struck Texas particularly hard, suggesting a push towards economic diversification.

The 1990 reforms had, starting later that decade, seen a massive rise in construction not of apartment buildings in city centers, as had been common previously, but sprawling, large developments on the peripheries of major Texan cities, especially as oil prices collapsing in the early 2000s made longer commutes more feasible. Changes to Texan immigration and tax laws in 2001 under newly-elected President Rick Perry and his conservative Texas United party made individual international investment increasingly attractive in Texas, especially as a form of tax sheltering. High and rising land values traded on option spot markets and the appeal of real estate financing for former oil investors, and construction for former oil workers, created a construction bonanza between 2005-08 that was seen as helping lift Texas out of its post-2002 malaise, creating further monetary easing and additional laws to make real estate more attractive. A brief dip in 2009 due to rising oil prices and 2010-11 due to the North American recession of that period slowed the bubble, but real estate prices were flat or declined no more than 2-3% in this period, with prices indeed continuing to rise by 4% annualized in Dallas from 2009-12.

Starting in 2012, a second, larger bubble began to form as immigration to Texas from across North America and the world increased and construction demand continued to spike, and land sale transactions reached their peak in 2015. Rising global interest rates suddenly made Texan debt financing less appealing due to high-quality investments elsewhere, and concerns about the massive debt loads of Texan financial institutions, and reports on "empty neighborhoods built on speculated but nonexistent demand" began to percolate, seeing a 50% drop in construction starts in late 2016. On April 11, 2017, the Texas Commerce Bank (TCB) was forced to call in its loans on two major builders which collapsed less than two months later, and TCB suffered a bank run and forced receivership in late August. By the end of 2017, close to eighty percent of the Texas construction sector had collapsed entirely, and two major mortgage lenders had liquidated as well.

The end of the 2017 bubble is regarded as the most severe financial crisis in Texas history and led to a long, deep recession from which Texas has still not entirely recovered; the width and spread of the bubble is also viewed as central to the collapse of Texas United hegemony and the rise of populist parties of both left and right in Texas in the years thereafter.
 
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I am curious how the Texan dollar(?) is doing against the US and CS dollars.
Weaker than the US but the confederate and Texan dollar trade at roughly the same value. One may gain based on good economic numbers and then sink just as quick. Currency speculation is a big industry in Wall Street.
 
it is used similarly to terms such as the Long Eighties to describe the period 1979-93 in the United States, the Wild Nineties to describe 1991-01 around the world, and the Lost Decade to describe the period 2002-13 in Europe and Asia.
...
Ok, whatever the hell is going on here...

Robert Redford is in his Prime for the "Long Eighties, "
Don't know about the "Wild Nineties", but that when Quebec declared independence, IIRC, so I'm guessing a bit of political movements. So i'd guess its some reactionary decade, politically and culturally.
But that "The Lost Decade" doesn't sound great.
 
The Texas property bubble refers to the rapid growth and subsequent collapse of the Texas real estate market, particularly the construction of commercial buildings and suburban residential homes. The bubble is generally viewed as beginning in the late 1990s, perhaps as early as 1995, and concluded in 2017. The end of the bubble and Texas' subsequent economic contraction following it is generally viewed as one of the most critical issues facing Texas economically and socially today.

The Texan economy, particularly since its independence from the Confederate States in 1916, has generally been defined by periods of boom and bust, including land runs and speculative real estate development, though for much of the 20th century it was concentrated in oil rights and production rather than by building. The Republic of Texas' state services grew substantially in the 1940s and 1950s and were dependent on petroleum and gas windfall taxes as well as a high land value tax that specifically exempted agricultural land from taxation, creating a "greenbelt effect" around many cities that saw landowners use agricultural land to avoid taxation and created crowded, expensive cities in Dallas, Fort Worth, Austin and Houston that were unable to grow outwards. Unusually low payroll, corporate and personal taxes by OECD standards exacerbated this issue with monied Texans able to spend freely to bid up real estate in cities, making "buildable, taxable land" highly valuable while also creating a government incentive to keep land values high for tax revenues. Revisions to the land value tax and a major relaxation of the agricultural land exemption in 1990 came at exactly the peak of the early 1990s oil bubble, which dramatically ballooned Texas government revenues and was seen as driving the county's economy; the mid-1990s mini-glut and the collapse of oil prices in 2002-03 due to the global economic crisis struck Texas particularly hard, suggesting a push towards economic diversification.

The 1990 reforms had, starting later that decade, seen a massive rise in construction not of apartment buildings in city centers, as had been common previously, but sprawling, large developments on the peripheries of major Texan cities, especially as oil prices collapsing in the early 2000s made longer commutes more feasible. Changes to Texan immigration and tax laws in 2001 under newly-elected President Rick Perry and his conservative Texas United party made individual international investment increasingly attractive in Texas, especially as a form of tax sheltering. High and rising land values traded on option spot markets and the appeal of real estate financing for former oil investors, and construction for former oil workers, created a construction bonanza between 2005-08 that was seen as helping lift Texas out of its post-2002 malaise, creating further monetary easing and additional laws to make real estate more attractive. A brief dip in 2009 due to rising oil prices and 2010-11 due to the North American recession of that period slowed the bubble, but real estate prices were flat or declined no more than 2-3% in this period, with prices indeed continuing to rise by 4% annualized in Dallas from 2009-12.

Starting in 2012, a second, larger bubble began to form as immigration to Texas from across North America and the world increased and construction demand continued to spike, and land sale transactions reached their peak in 2015. Rising global interest rates suddenly made Texan debt financing less appealing due to high-quality investments elsewhere, and concerns about the massive debt loads of Texan financial institutions, and reports on "empty neighborhoods built on speculated but nonexistent demand" began to percolate, seeing a 50% drop in construction starts in late 2016. On April 11, 2017, the Texas Commerce Bank (TCB) was forced to call in its loans on two major builders which collapsed less than two months later, and TCB suffered a bank run and forced receivership in late August. By the end of 2017, close to eight percent of the Texas construction sector had collapsed entirely, and two major mortgage lenders had liquidated as well.

The end of the 2017 bubble is regarded as the most severe financial crisis in Texas history and led to a long, deep recession from which Texas has still not entirely recovered; the width and spread of the bubble is also viewed as central to the collapse of Texas United hegemony and the rise of populist parties of both left and right in Texas in the years thereafter.
The idea of Texas ending up with Dense cities (at least by the standard of OTL) is probably worth all of this. I wonder if a greenbelt could keep Dallas and Fort Worth from merging...
 
I always love me a good Texas update. Which makes me wonder...

Has anyone asked what Ann Richards got up to ITTL?
TBH haven’t decided - she shows up in so many alt-hists (for good reason) that im inclined to try to find more hipster options for prominent Texas pols
I am curious how the Texan dollar(?) is doing against the US and CS dollars.
Stronger than the CS dollar, weaker than the US dollar and Canadian one
Weaker than the US but the confederate and Texan dollar trade at roughly the same value. One may gain based on good economic numbers and then sink just as quick. Currency speculation is a big industry in Wall Street.
Currency spec is definitely way bigger than OTL, I’d say
...
Ok, whatever the hell is going on here...

Robert Redford is in his Prime for the "Long Eighties, "
Don't know about the "Wild Nineties", but that when Quebec declared independence, IIRC, so I'm guessing a bit of political movements. So i'd guess its some reactionary decade, politically and culturally.
But that "The Lost Decade" doesn't sound great.
All to come! 🙂
The idea of Texas ending up with Dense cities (at least by the standard of OTL) is probably worth all of this. I wonder if a greenbelt could keep Dallas and Fort Worth from merging...
Denser at least in the cores, especially without the kind of urban renewal of OTL and federal-financed sprawl. San Antonio and Austin are a good deal smaller without all the military in the former and tech in the latter, too.
 
Makes me wonder, where are the equivalents to maquiladoras iTTL? No place in the Americas seems both stable *and* much poorer than a neighbor. Maybe Alsace?
 
Makes me wonder, where are the equivalents to maquiladoras iTTL? No place in the Americas seems both stable *and* much poorer than a neighbor. Maybe Alsace?
I don’t think you’d see anything like that in the Americas, though Mexico’s industry will eventually shift northwards due to cost and proximity to the US and Texas as trade becomes more important, and this will do much to alleviate “northern alienation”
 
The idea of Texas ending up with Dense cities (at least by the standard of OTL) is probably worth all of this. I wonder if a greenbelt could keep Dallas and Fort Worth from merging...
Much of Texas west of Fort Worth is dry or arid grasslands, so many cities like Lubbock, Amarillo, Midland-Odessa or El Paso are primarily based on petroleum, agriculture, trade and in recent years healthcare and education. Much of Texas lives in the triangle of Dallas-Fort Worth-San Antonio-Houston since that area has water, a bigger population and industry. Now the greenbelts may have prevented some of the urban sprawl but many of the problems like pollution, traffic, cost of living remain. Regarding maquiladora or factories, knowing Texas's history of regulation there many be factories that would have been shut down in the US along the Rio Grande due to cheap land and cheaper transportation costs to Mexico.
 
Much of Texas west of Fort Worth is dry or arid grasslands, so many cities like Lubbock, Amarillo, Midland-Odessa or El Paso are primarily based on petroleum, agriculture, trade and in recent years healthcare and education. Much of Texas lives in the triangle of Dallas-Fort Worth-San Antonio-Houston since that area has water, a bigger population and industry. Now the greenbelts may have prevented some of the urban sprawl but many of the problems like pollution, traffic, cost of living remain. Regarding maquiladora or factories, knowing Texas's history of regulation there many be factories that would have been shut down in the US along the Rio Grande due to cheap land and cheaper transportation costs to Mexico.
Oh, I've given up on West Texas. Amarillo is on the Phoenix/Las Vegas model. All you need to build a subdivision is a steamroller. Maquilladoras on the Texas side of the Rio Grande, I love it.
 
I don’t think you’d see anything like that in the Americas, though Mexico’s industry will eventually shift northwards due to cost and proximity to the US and Texas as trade becomes more important, and this will do much to alleviate “northern alienation”
This made me think about Mexico's southern border. On the one hand, the UK isn't rolling all 6s which is what would be needed for them to lose Belize, OTOH, Guatemala might actually take longer than the Confederacy to regain their 1913 standard of living.

Hmm, a wacky idea. The Caribbean coasts of Guatemala and Honduras go completely lawless and the US, Mexico and the UK help put down the pirates. While the locals have bad memories of the US and Mexico, the UK is viewed as an honest actor. (snicker) The western edge of this coast ends up asking for long term British protection and becomes functionally part of British Honduras, which defacto means that Guatemala loses its entire Caribbean coastline. (I know that iOTL, that the british never claimed south of the Sarstoon....)
 
Much of Texas west of Fort Worth is dry or arid grasslands, so many cities like Lubbock, Amarillo, Midland-Odessa or El Paso are primarily based on petroleum, agriculture, trade and in recent years healthcare and education. Much of Texas lives in the triangle of Dallas-Fort Worth-San Antonio-Houston since that area has water, a bigger population and industry. Now the greenbelts may have prevented some of the urban sprawl but many of the problems like pollution, traffic, cost of living remain. Regarding maquiladora or factories, knowing Texas's history of regulation there many be factories that would have been shut down in the US along the Rio Grande due to cheap land and cheaper transportation costs to Mexico.
Yeah and don’t forget. The FHA, GI Bill and interstate acts aren’t acting in concert to drive all that sprawl in the 1940s and 50s on top of Texas’ federal funding and intrastate migration, so Texas would sprawl much later on
 
Yeah and don’t forget. The FHA, GI Bill and interstate acts aren’t acting in concert to drive all that sprawl in the 1940s and 50s on top of Texas’ federal funding and intrastate migration, so Texas would sprawl much later on

I actually like the idea of cities in this alt-US being much more self-contained and not experiencing the sprawl that was common in the US of OTL. Some form of sprawl is probably inevitable - the US (and CS. And Texas. And Canada) simply have so much open space that it makes a level of sense. This, mixed with a strong automotive industries which make communiting more viable, means its going to happen. But, even in OTL, Canadian cities don't seem to suffer from it to the same extent as the US, so its certainly possible that the worst excesses could be reigned in.

Although I do have this idea that sprawl in the Confederacy is probably way worse than any other North American country. Not sure why - it just kinda screams the vibe that @KingSweden24 is going for in his Dixie-fried Confederate nightmare :)
 
This, mixed with a strong automotive industries which make communiting more viable, means its going to happen.
IIRC the Detroit automotive industry got fucked ITTL, which certainly removes that factor.
Although I do have this idea that sprawl in the Confederacy is probably way worse than any other North American country. Not sure why - it just kinda screams the vibe that @KingSweden24 is going for in his Dixie-fried Confederate nightmare
Because the CSA would never have the urban planning necessary to avoid that. Although I don't know that anyone will ever promote a highway system in the CSA that helps this along (I don't think they will have their own Eisenhower/Pershing, for one) or that the CSA government would even have the ability to build it even if they wanted to.
 
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