If Volkshalle Were a Reality

[RaptorWolf]

This is a model of Volkshalle, the People's Dome, part of a vision of "Germania" by Adolf Hitler. Unfortunately, the tides of war had washed Germania away, but this and other architectural plans by Albert Speer were influences of many alternate history fictions, most notably The Man in the High Castle.

If off the drawing board, the dome itself would have been 850 feet wide and its interior would fit roughly a million people. The one detail that I always get puzzled on is that it would be so large that the exhalations of so many people would turn the interior of the building literally into a raincloud. Where did this assumption come from? And if true, could there be some way to counter this meteorological complication?

 

[Alex1guy]

How I understand it, this building was actually unlikely to be able to stand. Berlin is built on reclaimed marsh and swampland and large heavy structures had a tendency to sink over time into the ground.

They actually built a concrete structure that weighed 12,000 tonnes (yep you read that right) to test the feasibility and it sank further than they'd anticipated. Basically a ridiculous amount of work would have to go in to reinforcing the ground and constant maintenance to stop it sinking (and even then it might not work).

In regards to "indoor weather" basically if you have a million screaming Nazis in one place, the condensation from them breathing would gather on the roof and form clouds which would rain back down on the people below (blergh). You need serious air conditioning efforts to counter the effect and apparently it can happen without people, but changes in temperature.

 

[Enigmajones]

Is there any city that could be a suitable replacement for Berlin? As in a Germania in say Bonn?

 

[ennobee]

Compared to some of the modern sports arenas, the effect of 1 million people sitting side by side and watching a .... Well, something.... Just needs a very thought out modern AC system. And by the time a Victorious Nazi Germany or a High Castle America finally gets around to building the hall instead of running from war to war, we will be so close to the modern age that a modern AC system is not so ASB anymore.

 

[Alex1guy]

Compared to some of the modern sports arenas, the effect of 1 million people sitting side by side and watching a .... Well, something.... Just needs a very thought out modern AC system. And by the time a Victorious Nazi Germany or a High Castle America finally gets around to building the hall instead of running from war to war, we will be so close to the modern age that a modern AC system is not so ASB anymore.

Hitler was a pretty impatient man, I reckon they'd start construction not long after the war. You'd maybe have lots of Nazi experiments into developing air conditioning during the construction phase.

 

[ennobee]

Hitler was a pretty impatient man, I reckon they'd start construction not long after the war. You'd maybe have lots of Nazi experiments into developing air conditioning during the construction phase.

Still, more than anything Hitler was impatient about which nation to invade next. So 'not long after the war' will be 1965 rather then 1949. And by that time OTL Houston just finished building the Astrodome....

 

[Byz]

Still, more than anything Hitler was impatient about which nation to invade next. So 'not long after the war' will be 1965 rather then 1949. And by that time OTL Houston just finished building the Astrodome....

When is 'after the war'? I'm of the opinion that Nazi ideology and the geopolitical situation of Germany will push them from conflict to conflict without end. It wasn't really a sustainable system. And even if by some miracle they take out the Soviets (obviously we have to assume they do), Germany would have no means to go after the WAllies.

 

[Lalli]

I can't see such building being possible. Ground of Berlin is too soft that it could support such massive building. Probably hellish project even if you would build that on hard rock. Even if it doesn't go deeper and deeper on ground it might still collapse due its own wieght. And it is so large that them should transport ten of thousands if not hundred of thousands people and destry thousands of houses. It hardly would be very popular.

And Germany has still deal with Russian guerillas in conquered USSR and prepare to second ground with UK and USA (it would be totally ASB defeat them totally.). It would be ridicolously expensive project even if they would use slave workers. And you hardly can get such air condition system that these million people wouldn't choke due lack of oxygen when they have yelled several times "Heil Hitler!".

 

[trurle]

If off the drawing board, the dome itself would have been 850 feet wide and its interior would fit roughly a million people. The one detail that I always get puzzled on is that it would be so large that the exhalations of so many people would turn the interior of the building literally into a raincloud. Where did this assumption come from? And if true, could there be some way to counter this meteorological complication?

Mostly incorrect. True rain-cloud can form in 130m high dome if difference between dew point and air temperature at dome base is below 1.5C, this meaning relative humidity of 85% or above at 20C. Typical humidity in Berlin is 60-80%, and this number will be further reduced by heating systems in the most humid winter months.

 

[Gukpard]

I can't see such building being possible. Ground of Berlin is too soft that it could support such massive building. Probably hellish project even if you would build that on hard rock. Even if it doesn't go deeper and deeper on ground it might still collapse due its own wieght. And it is so large that them should transport ten of thousands if not hundred of thousands people and destry thousands of houses. It hardly would be very popular.

And Germany has still deal with Russian guerillas in conquered USSR and prepare to second ground with UK and USA (it would be totally ASB defeat them totally.). It would be ridicolously expensive project even if they would use slave workers. And you hardly can get such air condition system that these million people wouldn't choke due lack of oxygen when they have yelled several times "Heil Hitler!".

What to do on this case?

Simple. Scrap the original plan and make it a bit bigger than the Reichstag. It still going to be a epic building and the largest on the city.

 

[Alex1guy]

What to do on this case?

Simple. Scrap the original plan and make it a bit bigger than the Reichstag. It still going to be a epic building and the largest on the city.

Yeah I always thought this would be the option they'd take. Make it houses 100,000 instead of a million.

That being said, can you imagine the transport system you'd need to move a million people in and out of central Berlin/Germania?

 

[Gukpard]

Yeah I always thought this would be the option they'd take. Make it houses 100,000 instead of a million.

That being said, can you imagine the transport system you'd need to move a million people in and out of central Berlin/Germania?

If they have europe they can do it. It is not like there is a shortage of resources or that they care that these people might suffer in the process. Welcome to totalitarism.

 

[Alex1guy]

If they have europe they can do it. It is not like there is a shortage of resources or that they care that these people might suffer in the process. Welcome to totalitarism.

Verrrry true...

 

[JSchafer]

Why does it have to be in Berlin? There are plenty of suitable city building locations that could for a change support such a structure. As for it being built I think it may either become a great tourist attraction or a ruin as it gets abandoned in which case it may again be a tourist attraction.

AC and ventilation is not ASB in anyone’s victory world. Solutions would be found. Though I think even if they were victorious this would never be built

 

[Gukpard]

Why does it have to be in Berlin? There are plenty of suitable city building locations that could for a change support such a structure. As for it being built I think it may either become a great tourist attraction or a ruin as it gets abandoned in which case it may again be a tourist attraction.

AC and ventilation is not ASB in anyone’s victory world. Solutions would be found. Though I think even if they were victorious this would never be built

A possibility is since the nazis built cities from scratch like Wolfsburg, they could find a forrest, plain or any large expansive terrain and use it to start a planned city from scratch and use propaganda to flood it with population. After a few decades if the Reich makes a unlikely survival they could move the capital to such a city.

 

[Alanith]

I can't see such building being possible. Ground of Berlin is too soft that it could support such massive building. Probably hellish project even if you would build that on hard rock. Even if it doesn't go deeper and deeper on ground it might still collapse due its own wieght. And it is so large that them should transport ten of thousands if not hundred of thousands people and destry thousands of houses. It hardly would be very popular.

And Germany has still deal with Russian guerillas in conquered USSR and prepare to second ground with UK and USA (it would be totally ASB defeat them totally.). It would be ridicolously expensive project even if they would use slave workers. And you hardly can get such air condition system that these million people wouldn't choke due lack of oxygen when they have yelled several times "Heil Hitler!".

Oh no it's even better. They're ALSO building some massive great wall of china knockoff across the entire border with the Russian rump state. That said, I doubt Nazi Germany would be unduly upset at the thought of dehousing a hundred thousand berlin residents (They can go east to colonize the new lands!) or killing half a million people making it (Get some work out of the last remaining jews and the Slavs!)

 

[Saint_007]

A couple curious flaws they'd have with the Volkshalle are the acoustics and the weather. Yes, you heard me, the weather.

The acoustics because a large, circular hall of that size is going to amplify whispers on the other end. The St. Paul cathedral in London has the same problem. So even whispering in there is going to cause deafening echoes, imagine what happens when thousands of people do it.

Then there'd be the rain of spit. Well, more like perspiration and the water vapor from people's breathing, which will be warm, rise up, and then cool up higher in the dome, causing it to condense and then fall back as rain on the people inside. So a rain of sweat and spit. They'll really need to work on the air conditioning and internal atmosphere to avoid that.

 

[Post]

Unfortunately, the tides of war had washed Germania away

I'd say fortunately, because it would have been buld if Germany won the war.

 

[Arkenfolm]

Yeah I always thought this would be the option they'd take. Make it houses 100,000 instead of a million.

115,000 (150,000 if you believe the propaganda) would beat May 1 Stadium in North Korea (although not built until 1980) so that might be the target number to beat.

That being said, can you imagine the transport system you'd need to move a million people in and out of central Berlin/Germania?

The Nazis had that solved too with their plans for the Breitspurbahn railway using a 3,000mm gauge. It would be quite an impressive system.

 

[MrHaakwood]

This is a model of Volkshalle, the People's Dome, part of a vision of "Germania" by Adolf Hitler. Unfortunately, the tides of war had washed Germania away, but this and other architectural plans by Albert Speer were influences of many alternate history fictions, most notably The Man in the High Castle.

If off the drawing board, the dome itself would have been 850 feet wide and its interior would fit roughly a million people. The one detail that I always get puzzled on is that it would be so large that the exhalations of so many people would turn the interior of the building literally into a raincloud. Where did this assumption come from? And if true, could there be some way to counter this meteorological complication?

I really wonder where the one million numbers so often quoted comes from. I mean Speer himself repeatledly said it would have been 150000-180000 people.

Is there any city that could be a suitable replacement for Berlin? As in a Germania in say Bonn?

Please tell me this is a joke! Bonn, seriously? Bonn? Why not Castrop-Rauxel?

I can't see such building being possible. Ground of Berlin is too soft that it could support such massive building. Probably hellish project even if you would build that on hard rock. Even if it doesn't go deeper and deeper on ground it might still collapse due its own wieght. And it is so large that them should transport ten of thousands if not hundred of thousands people and destry thousands of houses. It hardly would be very popular.

And Germany has still deal with Russian guerillas in conquered USSR and prepare to second ground with UK and USA (it would be totally ASB defeat them totally.). It would be ridicolously expensive project even if they would use slave workers. And you hardly can get such air condition system that these million people wouldn't choke due lack of oxygen when they have yelled several times "Heil Hitler!".

First of all, it would have been possible. But expensive. While its true Berlin is built on marshland, you can drill/dig your way to a soild layer. The engineering Challenges would have been immense. After the end of communsim and Berlin built the Potsdamer Platz anew they had to built underwater & use divers, a lot of divers & concrete that quickly becomes solid....underwater. Yeah & this in the 40ies? Hard to pull of.
Second. There would not have been thousands of destroyed houses. The Volkshalle would have been built near the Reichstag. Which even today is a rather empty place. See here:

The Volkshalle would have been built where today the Bundeskanzleramt & the Paul Löbe Haus stand.

Partly where the Spree used to flow. (!) So it would not have been unpopular because non existing houses would have been demolished, but it would have been a project taking a decade if not longer to finish....if at all. Regarding the air conditioning....yeah, you just being silly here.
Third: What Russian guerillas? They are all dead, except some slaves, which are easily controlled. Generalplan Ost would have make sure of that.

I have the feeling that some of you dont get National Socialism. Its a Believe System. Belief is the important part here. You hold somethings to be true, even if you have concrete evidence to the contrary. So why is this important? Yes, the hurdles to building the Volkshalle are immense. The ground, the resources, the time it would have cost. But all these things doesnt matter if you believe you doing something sacred. Hitler had the opinion that he had to walk the buildings of Germania to make them "holy" with his presence. Because his successors would not have his reputation or clout. And thats why the Volkshalle gets built, it would have been National Socialism St Peter's Basilica.