This is my 2 cents from stories from my father, uncles and professors, under beers and nem chua
It's awesome to see folks bringing the Vietnamese perspective to the English-speaking world. Heck, I don't even see much of the _South_ Vietnamese perspective.
Closing Haiphong with mines in 1965 is low risk to US Crews and causes no undue civilian harm
It just became near impossible to import large amounts of Military gear.
Yes, China allowed rail transit, but that was only 15%, and every trainload was subject to a 'tax' on any Soviet or Warsaw Pact goods.
Hmm. Did anyone calculate how long it would take the North Vietnamese to clear the mines? And how risky to US assets a continued struggle of mine laying/mine clearing would be?
In 1966, Saigon Falls, and LBJ's is defending his 'Victory' of a year and a half ago with today's news that there is no more South Vietnam, Cambodia is part of the Communist block as well along with the Indonesian coup the year before, when General Suharto was executed by the PKI, and Thailand currently having border incursions.
Not just Republicans accuse him of ignoring the Red Wave in Asia
Why would Saigon falling in 1966 mean Indonesia doesn't commit mass murder against its communists, suspected communists and communist-adjacent groups?
I don't see why recognizing the US position in Vietnam as what it was would stop the CIA, State Department, Congress and the President rendering all necessary assistance to a useful Indonesian regime?
The POD would be that ARVN is instead issued AR-15s from 1963 on, as it was already in production and the first combat testing had been done by ARVN troops.
They wanted the weapon to be their standard issue rifle due to how much their troops liked it and it allowed them to outgun (at the time) the VC and NVA troops they came across (it wasn't until about '68 that the NVA was mass issued AK-47s).
Interesting. Makes me wonder what would be possible if the US had done what the Chinese did, and were willing to strip the best weapons from the US armed services to arm the South Vietnamese.
Protests were about US dead. Only veterans Fuck The Army type movements really cared about war crimes. Civvies cared about blood and treasure. Even the radical liberals (who believed themselves marxists) cared more about US honour than dead foreigners.
Heck, I don't get the feeling that even today many people in the US really care what happened in Vietnam. You'd think Vietnam was some natural disaster that had struck the US, rather some war where they were fighting other humans.
It's pretty clear to me that the US anti-war movement was not any kind of pro-Vietnamese movement.
A lot of tongue in cheek in this thread, but seriously, the RTL "soft atrocities" of the strategic hamlet program and McNamara's "100,000" should have been alarm bells that something was seriously wrong with the fascist idiots in the American government who ran that colonialist war. Never mind Vietnam where the Americans never should have been...
Can we please not use the word "fascist" in an overly-loose way? Whatever the moral deficiencies of those who served under Johnson, "fascist" is one thing I think we can be confident they weren't.
(I rather like Umberdo Eco's definition of fascism that he gives in his essay Ur Fascism, if you are wondering what definition I use.)
fasquardon
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