maybe a character called Biggus Dickus??? I am eager to hear an update regarding the canal (ALT French Midi Canal) and is that ladder of flour mills in southern Gaul a thing yet? plus maybe some Hydraulic mining scenes with primitive steam pumps instead of long winding aqueducts?
Hadrian's Consolidation - reboot
- Thread starter Hecatee
- Start date
Hecatee
Donor
The flour mills near Arles have already been seen in action (otl they were at least hadrianic). Mining with steam pump was seen not to work thaat well, but is still being investigated. Issue is with sealing cylinders and steam room. The canal is in two or three updates (it was one of few steps I planned in my marcus aurelius tour)
Hi Hecatee, cool! What about using the multiple mill concept in your Balkan Iron working center? that much power would drive quite a few drop hammers, bellows and other cottage level to proto Uk factory 1760's standard in regard to organizational rather than technological matters? maybe get one of the state armories to try the concept they always sounded cool! (p.s Your travel advice was most appreciated I got to see most of things in Rome that I wanted to hit!) What I was getting at was sites like the Spanish gold mines and other places they had to build miles of aqueducts and reservoirs to build up the requisite amounts of what to remove the overburden from the veins before they started the. There are other methods to move the water to the requisite levels I.e. ladders of Archimedes screws or waterwheels (like in /Gaulish/Roman OTL mines) However what would be an awesome scene 'experimental steam powered super large cylindered pumping device demonstrated in Hispania to the Emperor by aspiring official/senator! On a serious note some simple improvements to the machinery used to extract placer gold/ore would raise the revenues of the state by a considerable degree and that is a realistic idea?
Hecatee
Donor
Nice that I could be of some help for your trip
Actually I'm myself on a trip right now, and while I went to Arles I did not go to the Barbegal mill this time. To answer your question on mills, I've not yet expended the concept because I know of no similarly large complex in the Roman world (even if I've seen a number of other mills from France to Jordan as well as in Italy, to give but a few countries I saw them
) and currently I've not gone for economy of scale concepts. I think the unique combination of travel facilities (the mill was on a lake/river shore if I recall correctly) to export the finished product and an extra large market (last theory I read was biscuit production for either the army or the naval base at Frejus) made it logical to create such an infrastructure in Barbegal, but an iron working mill might make less sense because it would overwhelm the market and force export to places where it is no longer competitive. About mining, I had an incling you where thinking of Las Medusas type of mines, right now pumps are to take water out but not push water higher if you get my meaning. It will come, but not right now. I don't want to invent everything in 20 or 30 years
Nice that I could be of some help for your trip
Actually I'm myself on a trip right now, and while I went to Arles I did not go to the Barbegal mill this time. To answer your question on mills, I've not yet expended the concept because I know of no similarly large complex in the Roman world (even if I've seen a number of other mills from France to Jordan as well as in Italy, to give but a few countries I saw them
About mining, I had an incling you where thinking of Las Medusas type of mines, right now pumps are to take water out but not push water higher if you get my meaning. It will come, but not right now. I don't want to invent everything in 20 or 30 years
I really appreciated the advice, planning Egypt/Nile cruise later in the year bank balance allowing lol, fair point about the lack of need for Iron!
However expanding upon my previous point being an affectionardo of goldrush on TV there a few things that might occur to a technical man of the time that just involve the more efficient use of sluices and ore/rock crushing equipment that they used in OTL plus labor though disposable could be conserved to a greater degree through basic health and safety thus overall decreasing costs and increasing profits? hey just trying to get you to write a few heavyish industry scene again lol, look forward to your next update!!!!
Seriously the eunuchs cannot be happy and I suspect they are planning a coup of sorts to wrest back power. After all by this time, the emperor was all but a figurehead rather than actually in control of the empire.
Also Cao Cao being an ambitious fellow, will be planning to formally seize power for himself a decade or two down the line. Maybe founding a new dynasty in the process or through marriage into the Liu clan.
Lastly if major expansion is in the works for Rome due to impending industrialization, it would help if the empire had some centralizing institution to control the military. I suggest using the old Centuriate Assembly for that purpose and giving them a say in succession. So a new emperor would have his heir confirmed by the Senate. But he would retire a bit early prior to his death to ensure a smooth succession, while the heir would have to secure the support of the majority of the army through the Centuriate Assembly to actually become emperor. That would formalize the succession process in a way that involves the troops, thus reducing chances for civil war. Far-off legions will negotiate politically a compromise with other legions from other parts of the empire, agreeing to accept the democratic result. The prospective emperor already confirmed by the Senate will pay off the legions in exchange for their support in the Centuriate Assembly, allowing him to officially succeed as emperor.
Otherwise the next time there is a disputed succession it will undo a lot of the current prosperity.
Also Cao Cao being an ambitious fellow, will be planning to formally seize power for himself a decade or two down the line. Maybe founding a new dynasty in the process or through marriage into the Liu clan.
Lastly if major expansion is in the works for Rome due to impending industrialization, it would help if the empire had some centralizing institution to control the military. I suggest using the old Centuriate Assembly for that purpose and giving them a say in succession. So a new emperor would have his heir confirmed by the Senate. But he would retire a bit early prior to his death to ensure a smooth succession, while the heir would have to secure the support of the majority of the army through the Centuriate Assembly to actually become emperor. That would formalize the succession process in a way that involves the troops, thus reducing chances for civil war. Far-off legions will negotiate politically a compromise with other legions from other parts of the empire, agreeing to accept the democratic result. The prospective emperor already confirmed by the Senate will pay off the legions in exchange for their support in the Centuriate Assembly, allowing him to officially succeed as emperor.
Otherwise the next time there is a disputed succession it will undo a lot of the current prosperity.
Hecatee
Donor
No, there is still a semi independant german kingdom, who formally offered its submission to rome, while "our" otl netherlands, frisia and coastal areas are still completely independant
@Hecatee this is great, took me about a week to read it through. Following now.
Outskirts of Olbia Pontica, on the Euxine Sea shore, August 180
Hecatee
Donor
Outskirts of Olbia Pontica, on the Euxine Sea shore, August 180
Marcus Petillius Cerialis looked around him. He’d arrived too late for the battle, but in time for the peace, and he would settle for that. Not that there was to be anything formal about the peace either : the surviving barbarians had fled in the sea of grass, at least those who had found a horse… The rest had mostly been rounded up by the cavalry in the days following the battle. He now had a large amount of girls and children on his arms, and few ideas what to do about them. It was not like during Voltinius and the divine Hadrian’s wars, when the logistics had been prepared to transfer the vanquished to all corners of the empire…
Beside the Caesar wanted to give good prizes to his soldiers, who had had a gruelling campaign and little rewards, even if the barbarians’ camp had wielded a surprisingly high amount of fine silverware and gold vessels that would not have been incongruous in Rome itself, some of them apparently centuries old.
So most captives would be sold, but many of the men would be kept for imperial infrastructure projects. The population was growing in many a place, requiring new roads, new consolidated river banks, new bridges, … The strong back of those slaves would provide for that, under legionary supervision of course.
But this was mainly the details of the peace. He was the Caesar, he must think beyond the now, toward the future. The outcome of the battle showed the great steppes were not conquerable : a foe could always escape, in fact it was only the presence of so much gothic infantry that had allowed any kind of victory… Beside Petilius Cerialis had read the life of Alexander written by Arrianus a few decades before, and knew even that genius had had issues with the tribes.
He’d need a network of walled settlements and large amounts of troops to hold them if he hoped to defend the area in any depth, something he was not keen on doing and the emperor would not approve. Legions would go back to their bases, and auxiliary units would keep patrolling the area in conjunction with bosphorean troops, but that would be it. Northern Germania was much more of a concern anyway and brought much more resources to the empire. He knew that Gaul was now producing surprisingly high amounts of grain, sustaining the growth of many cities and exporting food to Rome in ever larger quantities. Truth be told the bosphorean grain was no longer as vital as it had been…
While this went through the Caesars head, the high command of the army filled in the tent. Time to give them their marching orders…
Marcus Petillius Cerialis looked around him. He’d arrived too late for the battle, but in time for the peace, and he would settle for that. Not that there was to be anything formal about the peace either : the surviving barbarians had fled in the sea of grass, at least those who had found a horse… The rest had mostly been rounded up by the cavalry in the days following the battle. He now had a large amount of girls and children on his arms, and few ideas what to do about them. It was not like during Voltinius and the divine Hadrian’s wars, when the logistics had been prepared to transfer the vanquished to all corners of the empire…
Beside the Caesar wanted to give good prizes to his soldiers, who had had a gruelling campaign and little rewards, even if the barbarians’ camp had wielded a surprisingly high amount of fine silverware and gold vessels that would not have been incongruous in Rome itself, some of them apparently centuries old.
So most captives would be sold, but many of the men would be kept for imperial infrastructure projects. The population was growing in many a place, requiring new roads, new consolidated river banks, new bridges, … The strong back of those slaves would provide for that, under legionary supervision of course.
But this was mainly the details of the peace. He was the Caesar, he must think beyond the now, toward the future. The outcome of the battle showed the great steppes were not conquerable : a foe could always escape, in fact it was only the presence of so much gothic infantry that had allowed any kind of victory… Beside Petilius Cerialis had read the life of Alexander written by Arrianus a few decades before, and knew even that genius had had issues with the tribes.
He’d need a network of walled settlements and large amounts of troops to hold them if he hoped to defend the area in any depth, something he was not keen on doing and the emperor would not approve. Legions would go back to their bases, and auxiliary units would keep patrolling the area in conjunction with bosphorean troops, but that would be it. Northern Germania was much more of a concern anyway and brought much more resources to the empire. He knew that Gaul was now producing surprisingly high amounts of grain, sustaining the growth of many cities and exporting food to Rome in ever larger quantities. Truth be told the bosphorean grain was no longer as vital as it had been…
While this went through the Caesars head, the high command of the army filled in the tent. Time to give them their marching orders…
Derek Pullem
Donor
The increased grain output from Gaul is interesting - it will make the "core" empire easier to support without the difficulties of defending Africa and Egypt. If Germania goes the same way then the Western Empire (if that ever comes to pass) will be far stronger than it was IOTL.
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OK... But the Bosphorean Kingdom is doing fine as long as it stays within its walls. It just can't expand into *Ukraine
dunHozzie probably meant that Rome wont support the Bosphorean Kingdom as much now that Gaul is becoming a secure supply of grain, IDK
Yup, you nailed it @Undeadmuffin: if Rome dials back their investments and has an alternative source to your biggest source of income (the export of grain) then it takes no genius to know that maintaining the Bosporian Kingdom even as is will be an issue, let alone expanding it.
Donald Reaver
Donor
A alternate source of grain is always a good thing. Keeping a ally functional and perhaps growing in such a crucial area is worth gold.
Hecatee
Donor
Rome still has strategic reasons to keep the ports of the region out of hands of barbarians, and has alternate needs for bosphorean grain, simply its no longer as critical as it was and does not require an increase in production because of the new gallic sources that can keep up with the new food requirements in the west