Good King George - A Republican Britain and a Monarchist America

Would you like to see

  • More of the United Commonwealth

    Votes: 33 13.0%
  • United Provinces of America

    Votes: 144 56.9%
  • Patagonia

    Votes: 22 8.7%
  • European Affairs

    Votes: 54 21.3%

  • Total voters
    253
And what we've all been waiting for, and what my sanity allowed.

The world map.

Want to thank the good people over at the Historical Qbam map thread and Qwertius, Aron MacEanring. WheelyWheelyLegsNoFeely, Nazi Space Spy and HaroldGodwinson
for all the help they gave along the way!

If you have any thoughts on things that should be different. I'm open to hearing them!

NxF49YL.png
Are you 100% on that western Hanoverian border? I think I mentioned on the Qbam thread that it didn't look right.

And is that a surviving Sikh Empire I see in that Raj?
 
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And what we've all been waiting for, and what my sanity allowed.

The world map.

Want to thank the good people over at the Historical Qbam map thread and Qwertius, Aron MacEanring. WheelyWheelyLegsNoFeely, Nazi Space Spy and HaroldGodwinson
for all the help they gave along the way!

If you have any thoughts on things that should be different. I'm open to hearing them!

NxF49YL.png
Lovely to see this posted!

I forgot to ask this earlier, but what does India's federal government look like? I figure the dark-purple states are still under the rule of their local monarchies, but is India as a whole a monarchy, or is the rest of the country under a republic?
 
And what we've all been waiting for, and what my sanity allowed.

The world map.

Want to thank the good people over at the Historical Qbam map thread and Qwertius, Aron MacEanring. WheelyWheelyLegsNoFeely, Nazi Space Spy and HaroldGodwinson
for all the help they gave along the way!

If you have any thoughts on things that should be different. I'm open to hearing them!

NxF49YL.png
The Polish voivodeships in the west of the country are cursed, neither the OTL Greater Polish, Kuyavian-Pomeranian, nor Silesian would ever look like this. I'd recommend looking into the internal divisions of Congress Poland, because this is a little silly
 
Hmm, that might work. The issue would be, does Napoleon see that as a threat
One of his marshals can become Prince of Neuchâtel instead and marry a Orleans princess to solidify their claim.

Speaking of which, could any of Napoleon’s other marshals become monarchs in their own right like what happened with Jean Bernadotte in OTL?
And what we've all been waiting for, and what my sanity allowed.

The world map.

Want to thank the good people over at the Historical Qbam map thread and Qwertius, Aron MacEanring. WheelyWheelyLegsNoFeely, Nazi Space Spy and HaroldGodwinson
for all the help they gave along the way!

If you have any thoughts on things that should be different. I'm open to hearing them!

NxF49YL.png
That looks amazing!
 
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And what we've all been waiting for, and what my sanity allowed.

The world map.

Want to thank the good people over at the Historical Qbam map thread and Qwertius, Aron MacEanring. WheelyWheelyLegsNoFeely, Nazi Space Spy and HaroldGodwinson
for all the help they gave along the way!

If you have any thoughts on things that should be different. I'm open to hearing them!

NxF49YL.png
That is one of the best usernames ever. I wonder what it means.
 
That is one of the best usernames ever. I wonder what it means.
I'm in a wheelchair, so it's only natural.

It used to be GustavusAdolphus1, but since converting to Catholicism I realized that the name of one of the primary Protestant leaders of the Thirty Years' War probably wasn't the best-suited username for me anymore.
 
Are you 100% on that western Hanoverian border? I think I mentioned on the Qbam thread that it didn't look right.

And is that a surviving Sikh Empire I see in that Raj?

For me, it works well as a frontier formed after Napoleonic France get's booted from the Rhineland in the 40s. But looking at it, you're right. Let me do some research!

And indeed it is, slightly reduced, but there all the time! A princely state in the mess that is the Indian Union.

The Polish voivodeships in the west of the country are cursed, neither the OTL Greater Polish, Kuyavian-Pomeranian, nor Silesian would ever look like this. I'd recommend looking into the internal divisions of Congress Poland, because this is a little silly

Agreed! I did Europe first weeks ago, and I used them as a sort of stop-gap. Then... well it slipped my mind. I have Congress Poland borders up at the moment, and I'm updating them.

That looks amazing!

Thank you!

One of his marshals can become Prince of Neuchâtel instead and marry a Orleans princess to solidify their claim.

Speaking of which, could any of Napoleon’s other marshals become monarchs in their own right like what happened with Jean Bernadotte in OTL?

That's a good point!

Probably just Bernadotte, given after Frankfurt there aren't many kingdoms to go around.
I forgot to ask this earlier, but what does India's federal government look like? I figure the dark-purple states are still under the rule of their local monarchies, but is India as a whole a monarchy, or is the rest of the country under a republic?

It's a republic on the model of the British one. Bar one minor issue that is becoming a big issue.

Until the Lord Protector Act of 1953 the British Lord Protector served for life, and not wanting to start that fight just yet, when the Atlee Government gave India final independence, the office was made a life appointment. And given the Lord Protector was largely ceremonial in the Indian system it wasn't considered a priority to ever do anything about it.
 
More ideas relating to the German monarchies:
  1. All of the Anhalt duchies can survive to the present.
  2. Maximilian III Joseph of Bavaria can have issue with his wife Maria Anna Sophia of Saxony.
  3. William VIII of Brunswick can marry and have children, with his descendants still ruling Brunswick to this day.
  4. Charles Christian Erdmann of Wurttemberg-Oels' son can live to adulthood and have children, with his descendants still ruling Wurttemberg-Oels to this day.
  5. Victoria I of Hanover can be the ancestor of most of Germay's monarchies, becoming known as "the Grandmother of Germany".
 
So unless I'm mistaken it seems Japan ITTL still has it's empire with it controlling Korea, Taiwan and seems there is even a Manchuko which makes me wonder just what happened during ITTL WWII with the mention of Pearl Harbor earlier. Also I wonder if Scandinavia unified in the 19th century or roughly around the same time as Germany since it seems there's a unified Scandinavia ITTL.
 
So unless I'm mistaken it seems Japan ITTL still has it's empire with it controlling Korea, Taiwan and seems there is even a Manchuko which makes me wonder just what happened during ITTL WWII with the mention of Pearl Harbor earlier. Also I wonder if Scandinavia unified in the 19th century or roughly around the same time as Germany since it seems there's a unified Scandinavia ITTL.
My guess is that China took the role of Japan ITTL during WWII, given how it looks like it's been partitioned.

If I could hazard another guess, I'm assuming that in WWI France and Austria-Hungary (or just the Austrian Empire depending on how the empire developed ITTL) were aligned against Britain, Russia, and Prussia. The latter won, with Austria being dismantled as per OTL (although the Habsburgs may have held on to power in Austria proper), while France was better off border-wise, but still saw the Bonapartes ousted and major war reparations instated similar to what happened against OTL Germany. This led to France devolving into a fascist regime which entered into an alliance with China, where the Kuomintang remained in power but went down a much more nationalist, pseudo-fascist route. Whether there was another power that played the role of Italy, I'm not sure, but at any rate, the Allies (America, Britain, and Russia) won once again, leading to France having the Bonapartes restored and China having some of its border territories (Manchuria, Mongolia, Sinkiang, Tibet) become independent.
 
My guess is that China took the role of Japan ITTL during WWII, given how it looks like it's been partitioned.

If I could hazard another guess, I'm assuming that in WWI France and Austria-Hungary (or just the Austrian Empire depending on how the empire developed ITTL) were aligned against Britain, Russia, and Prussia. The latter won, with Austria being dismantled as per OTL (although the Habsburgs may have held on to power in Austria proper), while France was better off border-wise, but still saw the Bonapartes ousted and major war reparations instated similar to what happened against OTL Germany. This led to France devolving into a fascist regime which entered into an alliance with China, where the Kuomintang remained in power but went down a much more nationalist, pseudo-fascist route. Whether there was another power that played the role of Italy, I'm not sure, but at any rate, the Allies (America, Britain, and Russia) won once again, leading to France having the Bonapartes restored and China having some of its border territories (Manchuria, Mongolia, Sinkiang, Tibet) become independent.
That seems somewhat possible.

I imagine that if this what happened Japan ended up as part of the Allies since I have my doubts China wouldn't fight them as well if ITTL China fell under a fascist regime.

Something I'm actually wondering now is what the general accents of the UP are compared to the U.S. of OTL and the UC's accents compared to otl UK. Especially the 'default' accent. I do admit I have the amusingly ironic idea (at least to me) of the American 'default' accent being either closer to OTL Royal/Recieved Pronunciation due to the more aristocratic nature of ITTL America whilst ITTL Britian has something closer to OTL 'American' English since from I understand the dialects and accents of the two didn't diverge until the 19th century. Or at least the ITTL 'default' American accent is either the historical Trans-Atlantic accent or the historical Boston Brahmin accent.

Something that shows the generally more aristocratic nature of ITTL America in how they speak compared to OTL U.S.
 
I assume that the reason the Caribbean isn't part of Monarchist America is because they were under the rule of Republican Britain.

Pretty much! It's all republics down there. And a new one might soon join the table, as the calls for independence grow in the remaining British West Indies

So unless I'm mistaken it seems Japan ITTL still has it's empire with it controlling Korea, Taiwan and seems there is even a Manchuko which makes me wonder just what happened during ITTL WWII with the mention of Pearl Harbor earlier.
My guess is that China took the role of Japan ITTL during WWII, given how it looks like it's been partitioned.

More of the world words soon, but WheelyWheelyLegsNoFeely is bang on for most of it, WWI here is a lot messier than our version of it, and that is saying something. The war doesn't so much end, as it... peters out.

As for the Second World War, it's going to be, A, a longer conflict, and B, the interwars years a lot bloodier. I should mention here, the attack on Pearl Harbour was indeed a Chinese operation that is a touch more successful than the OTL equivalent.

If anyone wants to know about the situation in Korea and Taiwan, I have stuff coming for it!

Also I wonder if Scandinavia unified in the 19th century or roughly around the same time as Germany since it seems there's a unified Scandinavia ITTL.

The Unification of Scandinavia began in 1889 and wasn't finished until 1989. It started as an economic compact, morphed into a defensive alliance, and finally a union over the course of a century of work. Looking at it though, I might move the Schleswig-Holstein border south though.

Something I'm actually wondering now is what the general accents of the UP are compared to the U.S. of OTL and the UC's accents compared to otl UK. Especially the 'default' accent. I do admit I have the amusingly ironic idea (at least to me) of the American 'default' accent being either closer to OTL Royal/Recieved Pronunciation due to the more aristocratic nature of ITTL America whilst ITTL Britian has something closer to OTL 'American' English since from I understand the dialects and accents of the two didn't diverge until the 19th century. Or at least the ITTL 'default' American accent is either the historical Trans-Atlantic accent or the historical Boston Brahmin accent.

Something that shows the generally more aristocratic nature of ITTL America in how they speak compared to OTL U.S.

I had the same idea, and am mulling over doing just that! I think it would be quite fun! For the moment, I'm leaning towards the default American accent being Trans-Atlantic, or at the very least that's how the royal family talks, and it's often a source of light humour that the current monarch, despite being a young woman sounds like your grandmother most of the time.

Though here, the Boston Brahmin is still alive and kicking, and you'd expect to hear it when you tune in to watch debates in parliament.

More ideas relating to the German monarchies:
  1. All of the Anhalt duchies can survive to the present.
  2. Maximilian III Joseph of Bavaria can have issue with his wife Maria Anna Sophia of Saxony.
  3. William VIII of Brunswick can marry and have children, with his descendants still ruling Brunswick to this day.
  4. Charles Christian Erdmann of Wurttemberg-Oels' son can live to adulthood and have children, with his descendants still ruling Wurttemberg-Oels to this day.
  5. Victoria I of Hanover can be the ancestor of most of Germay's monarchies, becoming known as "the Grandmother of Germany".

1- Not a bad idea, I'll have to do some more reading on it.

2 - Technically before our POD, but not a had idea by any stretch, could provide some interesting options!

3 and 4 - If you'd like, send me a message, and we can discuss family trees in detail, and figure something out!

5 - That was my thought for her, and her main role in all this, her influence in that area leading to the survival of Hanover on the map
 
1- Not a bad idea, I'll have to do some more reading on it.
Thanks.
2 - Technically before our POD, but not a had idea by any stretch, could provide some interesting options!
I'm thinking that Maximilian's child would be born after the POD (Max died at the age of 50), which might mean that Bavaria would have a regency.

Two ideas relating to the above is Charles Theodore's son Francis Louis Joseph is not born stillborn and Palatinate-Birkenfield-Gelnhausen isn't annexed to Bavaria.
3 and 4 - If you'd like, send me a message, and we can discuss family trees in detail, and figure something out!
That would be great! I can also help out with family trees for other countires.
5 - That was my thought for her, and her main role in all this, her influence in that area leading to the survival of Hanover on the map
Good to know.

I discovered that Louis-Alexandre Berthier was Prince of Neuchâtel from 1806 to 1814. Maybe in TTL he is allowed to stay as Prince with his descendants continuing to rule Neuchâtel to the present.
 
Pretty much! It's all republics down there. And a new one might soon join the table, as the calls for independence grow in the remaining British West Indies




More of the world words soon, but WheelyWheelyLegsNoFeely is bang on for most of it, WWI here is a lot messier than our version of it, and that is saying something. The war doesn't so much end, as it... peters out.

As for the Second World War, it's going to be, A, a longer conflict, and B, the interwars years a lot bloodier. I should mention here, the attack on Pearl Harbour was indeed a Chinese operation that is a touch more successful than the OTL equivalent.

If anyone wants to know about the situation in Korea and Taiwan, I have stuff coming for it!



The Unification of Scandinavia began in 1889 and wasn't finished until 1989. It started as an economic compact, morphed into a defensive alliance, and finally a union over the course of a century of work. Looking at it though, I might move the Schleswig-Holstein border south though.



I had the same idea, and am mulling over doing just that! I think it would be quite fun! For the moment, I'm leaning towards the default American accent being Trans-Atlantic, or at the very least that's how the royal family talks, and it's often a source of light humour that the current monarch, despite being a young woman sounds like your grandmother most of the time.

Though here, the Boston Brahmin is still alive and kicking, and you'd expect to hear it when you tune in to watch debates in parliament.
That sounds pretty interesting. I do admit I am curious about Korea, Taiwan and mainland Japan so I am definately curious about that and I have to say that's a pretty interesting, whilst still logical, progression of what happens with ITTL Scandinavia.

As for the accent I think the ITTL 'default' American accent being the Trans-Atlantic accent is a pretty good idea. Especially with the royal family and how it seems the ITTL U.S. is deeply monarchist, it being the, or at least the major default dialect for the upper class like how RP is the default accent of Britian's Upper class, I think would make a lot of sense I feel. Perhaps there being something similar to the difference between RP and Estuary dialects, with how RP is mostly spoken by the upper classes as a 'regionless' dialect whilst Estuary is spoken by more common people whilst being influenced by RP. With here the Trans-Atlantic and Boston Brahmin and other such accents are the dialects and accents of the upper class with there being a more 'middle class' equivalent of Trans-Atlantic due to the influence of the ongoing Trans-Atlantic dialect/accent on general American English.

Actually this is making me think of some theoretical stereotypes ITTL Americans have...I have the feeling stodgy conservative and aristocratic monarchists obsessed with relitigating the First British Civil War is going to be a common stereotype in the anglosphere outside of the ITTL UP and perhaps Realm Patagonia. Perhaps the british stereotype of stuffiness and politeness is more of an ITTL American thing as well as a bit of alt-historical irony.

Whereas since from what I understand pre-French Revolution the British/English actually had a reputation for liberal radicals difficult to control I wonder if ITTL Britian, priding itself on being the 'Model Republic' has a stereotype/reputation being liberal/radical in general unlike OTL due to for how long they were the only real republic and the influence from that (even though it was an aristocratic republic). Also perhaps the stereotype of being in general rude, vitroalic and confrontation being a more ITTL British stereotype with how intense Soccer hooligans in Britian are IOTL...Also I hope the ITTL default British accent in the present is something close to Cockney due to it's OTL "low status/class" reputation and it being more the language of the common population compared to the ITTL Americans having their default dialect/accent be considered more aristocratic in nature. Perhaps born from, if RP still was a thing for a long while ITTL Britian, a general backlash to the more aristocratic sounding RP and the creeping influence of Aristocratic America and it's bullheaded attempts to turn back the clock and bring back a union that no one outside of the UP and I presume Realm Patagonia is actually interested in.
 
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As for the accent I think the ITTL 'default' American accent being the Trans-Atlantic accent is a pretty good idea. Especially with the royal family and how it seems the ITTL U.S. is deeply monarchist, it being the, or at least the major default dialect for the upper class like how RP is the default accent of Britian's Upper class, I think would make a lot of sense I feel. Perhaps there being something similar to the difference between RP and Estuary dialects, with how RP is mostly spoken by the upper classes as a 'regionless' dialect whilst Estuary is spoken by more common people whilst being influenced by RP. With here the Trans-Atlantic and Boston Brahmin and other such accents are the dialects and accents of the upper class with there being a more 'middle class' equivalent of Trans-Atlantic due to the influence of the ongoing Trans-Atlantic dialect/accent on general American English.
Doubtful. The Trans-Atlantic accent came into being due to American elites adopting British dialect features which were seen as more "fancy" due to Britain being the dominant world power, as well as it having a formal aristocracy. With Britain seemingly less powerful in this timeline, as well as America having its own aristocracy which I imagine includes lots of lords who fled to America after the British revolution, I doubt the Trans-Atlantic accent will even exist ittl.
 
I mean the author mentioned the American monarchy having the ITTL Trans Atlantic accent already. Also, it seems that the British were still a world power during the 19th and early 20th centuries, just with Napoleonic France as their rival as Napoleonic France ended up accepting the Frankfurt proposals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_proposals). Plus, ITTL it could be born from the fact that Americans still seem to think that one day they will restore the American monarchy and so tried to keep an accent similar to the British upper class. Though yeah perhaps it's not called the Trans-Atlantic accent but is called that here to help with translation convention and instead being more just "American version of RP".

That actually does remind of me...How much of the British Peerage fled with the monarchy to the UP and also what is the UC version of the House of Lords like?
 
I wonder what is the fate of OTL's Leopold I of Belgium considering that Belgium doesn't exist here.

The Oldenburgs could still be around in the present. But I imagine that they aren't the reigning house of Denmark anymore as the Glucksburgs would be the current Danish royal house.

Two ideas:
  1. All of the Hesse and Nassau monarchies around in 1757 can survive to the present.
  2. A branch of the House of Liechtenstein can immigrate to Alaska in the United Provinces, with their descendants becoming of the province's nobility.
 

ahmedali

Banned
He proposed removing Ukraine, making it Russian, and making it an autonomous region within the Tsar's scepter

Incorporating Najd into the Hashemite Kingdom and making Israel and Lebanon an autonomous region for the Jews within the Hashemite Kingdom

And return Edirne to the Turks and Korea, make it the kingdom of Joseon and withdraw Meiji

He proposed to make Ireland an independent kingdom
 
That sounds pretty interesting. I do admit I am curious about Korea, Taiwan and mainland Japan so I am definately curious about that and I have to say that's a pretty interesting, whilst still logical, progression of what happens with ITTL Scandinavia.

Korea and Taiwan both have autonomy within japan. Imagine them as a sort of Scotland and Wales. One with a very strong independence movement, the other a weaker one.

As for the accent I think the ITTL 'default' American accent being the Trans-Atlantic accent is a pretty good idea. Especially with the royal family and how it seems the ITTL U.S. is deeply monarchist, it being the, or at least the major default dialect for the upper class like how RP is the default accent of Britian's Upper class, I think would make a lot of sense I feel. Perhaps there being something similar to the difference between RP and Estuary dialects, with how RP is mostly spoken by the upper classes as a 'regionless' dialect whilst Estuary is spoken by more common people whilst being influenced by RP. With here the Trans-Atlantic and Boston Brahmin and other such accents are the dialects and accents of the upper class with there being a more 'middle class' equivalent of Trans-Atlantic due to the influence of the ongoing Trans-Atlantic dialect/accent on general American English.
Doubtful. The Trans-Atlantic accent came into being due to American elites adopting British dialect features which were seen as more "fancy" due to Britain being the dominant world power, as well as it having a formal aristocracy. With Britain seemingly less powerful in this timeline, as well as America having its own aristocracy which I imagine includes lots of lords who fled to America after the British revolution, I doubt the Trans-Atlantic accent will even exist ittl.


I'll be the first to admit, my knowledge of accents is rather... limited, so I'll take what advice I can get on this issue! Britain, I would say, is still a rather powerful nation, so a version of the Trans-Atlantic dialect could still have sprung up, as something of a united language of the upper class. That being said, I do rather like the idea that Derekc2 laid here, so for the time being, we'll go with that until I can consult some colleague of mine on that issue.

Actually this is making me think of some theoretical stereotypes ITTL Americans have...I have the feeling stodgy conservative and aristocratic monarchists obsessed with relitigating the First British Civil War is going to be a common stereotype in the anglosphere outside of the ITTL UP and perhaps Realm Patagonia. Perhaps the british stereotype of stuffiness and politeness is more of an ITTL American thing as well as a bit of alt-historical irony.

I have a stereotypes map being worked on right now, that will answer that question more fully. But your right on the money really. For the most part, there is this idea that Americans are stuffy and polite, making use of strange run of sentences to defend their "Backward institution" whereas are Englishmen are forward-thinking, while only glancing at the past.

The stereotype of the American ready to refight the first civil war is common though and wasn't helped when it was leaked at the Queen allegedly said to the American ambassador that she couldn't wait for "Our Homeland to return to the fold" after it was mentioned to her than an open loyalist had won a seat in Parliament for the first time 50 years.

Whereas since from what I understand pre-French Revolution the British/English actually had a reputation for liberal radicals difficult to control I wonder if ITTL Britian, priding itself on being the 'Model Republic' has a stereotype/reputation being liberal/radical in general unlike OTL due to for how long they were the only real republic and the influence from that (even though it was an aristocratic republic). Also perhaps the stereotype of being in general rude, vitroalic and confrontation being a more ITTL British stereotype with how intense Soccer hooligans in Britian are IOTL...Also I hope the ITTL default British accent in the present is something close to Cockney due to it's OTL "low status/class" reputation and it being more the language of the common population compared to the ITTL Americans having their default dialect/accent be considered more aristocratic in nature. Perhaps born from, if RP still was a thing for a long while ITTL Britian, a general backlash to the more aristocratic sounding RP and the creeping influence of Aristocratic America and it's bullheaded attempts to turn back the clock and bring back a union that no one outside of the UP and I presume Realm Patagonia is actually interested in.

For the most part, Britain will be seen as the home of radical liberalism well into the 20th century, and still clings to that as a core aspect of their national identity to the modern day. You'll often hear politicians making a point of the great history of British radicalism to win support. Now, is that strictly true? No, no it is not. But why let reality get in the way of a good story?

This is what I was thinking for the most part, that many American stereotypes are now British ones. Brits running amuck, and all that!

I do rather like the idea of the standard accent being cockney! Could be we see a more firm divide between the upper class and the general populace? And that the fact David Cameron speaks the way he does is a source of mockery toward him sounding like he should be "On the other side"


I wonder what is the fate of OTL's Leopold I of Belgium considering that Belgium doesn't exist here.

The Oldenburgs could still be around in the present. But I imagine that they aren't the reigning house of Denmark anymore as the Glucksburgs would be the current Danish royal house.

Two ideas:
  1. All of the Hesse and Nassau monarchies around in 1757 can survive to the present.
  2. A branch of the House of Liechtenstein can immigrate to Alaska in the United Provinces, with their descendants becoming of the province's nobility.

I did have a rather funny idea for that. He goes into business, and in time his son succeeds him as head of the company. Which in time morphs into the Congo Company. What this place!

The Oldenberg idea is an interesting one! What do you think about it?

1 - Hmm, maybe, though it does further complicate matters when planning family tries

2 - That is a rather fun idea! One branch the reigning house of a small country, the other massive lang holders in Alaska.
 
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