Geronimo : What if Osama Bin Laden was killed prior to 9/11?

[SultanArda]

So:
-Blair is getting increasingly confident, and together with confidence, arrogance seems to come for him too. Practically purging an entire faction, not caring about the backbenchers… I feel like something bad is coming for King Tony I, and I feel like it will come from our Dutch friends, with a bald one who has a dog (I remember he had a photo with a cute dog) in particular making his flames of glory go away.
-France seems to choose a boring technocrat, as they are sick of the constant infighting by the rest. Can’t blame them. (Did any monarchists enter to the 2007 elections, as it seems like a perfect year for a barely alive guy with half a dozen titles who are not worth anything since 1870 whose only platform is “monarchy is good” to enter to a race?)
-Netherlands seems chaotic, that is all I can say (Also, what were the reforms made to make the anti-EU Dutch less angry? And what was the result of the Van Gogh investigation?)

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As a final note, I am read to see the teaser of the next update, which I might know where it is from

 

[InsertCoolUsernameHere]

Seems that after a decade in power Blair is becoming increasingly confident and arrogant, and factionalism is starting to rear its ugly head in the Labour Party. A Tory victory in the next election come 2009/10 is probably inevitable thanks to the financial crisis, and I could see it being bigger than OTL with the addition of fatigue after 12 years of Blair. Very possible we get a Conservative majority, and it'll be interesting to see how May differs from Cameron on the policy front. IIRC she had a pretty ambitious agenda after becoming PM in 2016, but never got to implement much of it bc her term was so dominated by Brexit. Hopefully things turn out better for the UK, seems like the 2010s were basically a Lost Decade for them OTL.
If Blair decides to run for a fourth term I imagine it'll be seen as incredibly arrogant and he'll face a revolt from within the party. On the other hand, if he decides to step down as leader ahead of the next election I imagine it opens the door for a nasty, divisive leadership election.

 

[Marco Rivignani]

Really interesting updates but I honestly don't understand how no 9/11 means the UK meets the five stress tests that in OTL it failed...
Also, are we talking about May 1st in 2006, right?
Interesting updates regarding the EU constitution without OTL France and Netherlands rejections. Looking at what will happen in Italy with Berlusconi and hoping that ITTL Alitalia will be doing better than in OTL.

 

[MLK JFK LBJ Beatles]

Really interesting updates but I honestly don't understand how no 9/11 means the UK meets the five stress tests that in OTL it failed...

Butterfly
It's like YouTube turned into WebTube, MySpace bought Facebook, Yanukovych won 2004 election, it wasn't related to 9/11 and affected by 9/11 at all either
This is an incredibly interesting part of ATL Fandom

 

[CarlosTheAltHistoryGuy]

Snip

Nice update, guess King Tony's arrogance will soon come to an end

 

[KingSweden24]

I think this is the first time I’ve ever seen a “successful” Francois Bayrou TL!

 

[athgtq16129]

Batsman Born Again Review

Batman is written incorrectly here.

 

[Iwanh]

As a final note, I am read to see the teaser of the next update, which I might know where it is from

👍

Really interesting updates but I honestly don't understand how no 9/11 means the UK meets the five stress tests that in OTL it failed...
Also, are we talking about May 1st in 2006, right?
Interesting updates regarding the EU constitution without OTL France and Netherlands rejections. Looking at what will happen in Italy with Berlusconi and hoping that ITTL Alitalia will be doing better than in OTL.

It stems from the lack of the Iraq war, instead Blair opts to focus on his domestic agenda and is willing to do anything to win. The transition ends in 2007, I will make it clearer. And yeah the EU constitution is a big symbolic victory.

I think this is the first time I’ve ever seen a “successful” Francois Bayrou TL!

He did well in 07, it seemed very plausible among a more divided field

Batman is written incorrectly here.

Thanks, it's funny the things you miss

 

[Guy712]

Will Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull be made? Maybe in this timeline Shia is instead replaced with someone like, I don't know, Joseph Gordon Levitt?

Also do games like Manhunt and Postal 2 still exist?

 

[Pokemon Master]

Batman is written incorrectly here.

Thanks, it's funny the things you miss

is it just me, or would Batman Reborn roll off the tongue better?

 

[KingSweden24]

👍


It stems from the lack of the Iraq war, instead Blair opts to focus on his domestic agenda and is willing to do anything to win. The transition ends in 2007, I will make it clearer. And yeah the EU constitution is a big symbolic victory.


He did well in 07, it seemed very plausible among a more divided field


Thanks, it's funny the things you miss

That wasn’t a critique, to be clear - I’m very much excited to see what President Bayrou brings to the Elysees Palace

 

[Iwanh]

That wasn’t a critique, to be clear - I’m very much excited to see what President Bayrou brings to the Elysees Palace

To be just as clear, I wasn't critiquing your non-critique, and I love your excitement

 

[TheKennedyMachine.]

Postal 2

Postal 2 relies heavily on Bush Era trends, so probably not, lol.

Manhunt is still a likely thing. Don't see why it would get butterflied in a no-9/11 timeline.

 

[athgtq16129]

Postal 2 relies heavily on Bush Era trends, so probably not, lol.

I mean why not? it might just end up looking different and with other jokes, I am not well acquainted with the development of Postal 2, but since it released in 2003, perhaps its development started out in mid 2001, before 9/11, as it was common for other games released in 2003.

You also just reminded me that last year, I wrote a very long hot take about the status of Half-Life 2, Garry's Mod, and other Source Engine games/mods in this no-9/11 timeline, but I forgot to post it here, and now the .txt file is hidden somewhere on my messy PC that just came back from repairs, so I will post it here eventually, since I grew up on late-2000s/early-2010s Gmod video culture, and I would love to speculate what it would look like in a no-9/11 world.

Manhunt is still a likely thing. Don't see why it would get butterflied in a no-9/11 timeline.

I do not have a link to it right now, but on a Rockstar dev blog, a guy who worked on the company from 1994 to 2009 wrote that Manhunt started development in 1999, the same time as GTA 3 did, so yeah, Manhunt would still exist, I do however, remember reading material of it online about how its snuff film/deaths and violence on camera gimmick was a critique against the jingoistic and violent news/media culture of the post-9/11 world and whatnot.

This has probably been already discussed, but would the Hunger Games novels and thus the film series get butterflied away? since Suzanne Collins said that her inspiration to write the first book was from her watching 24/7 news media on the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

 

[TheKennedyMachine.]

This has probably been already discussed, but would the Hunger Games novels be butterflied away? since Suzanne Collins said that her inspiration to write the first book was from her watching 24/7 news media on the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

Hunger Games is butterflied, yes.

 

[InsertCoolUsernameHere]

I mean why not? it might just end up looking different and with other jokes, I am not well acquainted with the development of Postal 2, but since it released in 2003, perhaps its development started out in mid 2001, before 9/11, as it was common for other games released in 2003.

You also just reminded me that last year, I wrote a very long hot take about the status of Half-Life 2, Garry's Mod, and other Source Engine games/mods in this no-9/11 timeline, but I forgot to post it here, and now the .txt file is hidden somewhere on my messy PC that just came back from repairs, so I will post it here eventually, since I grew up on late-2000s/early-2010s Gmod video culture, and I would love to speculate what it would look like in a no-9/11 world.

I do not have a link to it right now, but on a Rockstar dev blog, a guy who worked on the company from 1994 to 2009 wrote that Manhunt started development in 1999, the same time as GTA 3 did, so yeah, Manhunt would still exist, I do however, remember reading material of it online about how its snuff film/deaths and violence on camera gimmick was a critique against the jingoistic and violent news/media culture of the post-9/11 world and whatnot.

This has probably been already discussed, but would the Hunger Games novels and thus the film series get butterflied away? since Suzanne Collins said that her inspiration to write the first book was from her watching 24/7 news media on the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

Would love to see that take on the Source engine in the Geronimoverse. And yeah, Hunger Games almost certainly never exists, unless Collins gets a similar idea from watching news coverage of the operation in Darfur

 

[athgtq16129]

unless Collins gets a similar idea from watching news coverage of the operation in Darfur

I mean, ITTL the invasion of Sudan is clearly seen in a much more positive light by the American and international publics, with the task being to stop the first genocide of the 21st century being perpetrated against ethnic minorities, and also (important to American audiences), to aid Christian rebels in the South, whose Christian faith is one of the main reasons why they are fighting against a Muslim state, that is oppressing the faith in Jesus Christ of the South Sudanese people, so stopping the first genocide of the 21st century+saving Christians is certified better PR when compared to the OTL invasion of Iraq.

IOTL, Bush and the pro-war establishment did not really told the American and international publics that the invasion of Iraq is being done in order to save Kurds and Shia Muslims from being genocided by Saddam, but rather, it was to stop WMDs, and other vague "dictator bad freedom good" stuff (note: I am aware that there were many more motivations for the OTL Iraq invasion, but WMDs was the main talking point that the average person associates the invasion with).

Note: I never read the Hunger Games books nor watched any of the films lol, I am just legit curious, because Hunger Games immediately popped up in my head as an example of a very popular media franchise that exists as a direct consequence of 9/11 and the War on Terror, and thus, no 9/11 means with almost complete certainty that this would not exist ITTL.

Maybe with the "operation" in Darfur being seen more positively, the war could evoke ironic elements of hope and "just war" philosophy, with "violence is bad, but sometimes, violence is necessary to save the lives of innocent people and prevent more deaths" feelings, here in Brazil, around a decade ago I read a comment chain of people saying about how before 9/11, the majority of popular FPS games were either futuristic sci-fi stuff with aliens or World War II shooters, with modern-day military FPS games being a very niche market, only after the War on Terror and the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq that Call of Duty 4 popularized the whole "Murica Fuck Yeah dark and gritty modern military shooter in the Middle East" trend that dominated the late 2000s and early 2010s.

 

[TheKennedyMachine.]

I mean, ITTL the invasion of Sudan is clearly seen in a much more positive light by the American and international publics, with the task being to stop the first genocide of the 21st century being perpetrated against ethnic minorities, and also (important to American audiences), to aid Christian rebels in the South, whose Christian faith is one of the main reasons why they are fighting against a Muslim state, that is oppressing the faith in Jesus Christ of the South Sudanese people, so stopping the first genocide of the 21st century+saving Christians is certified better PR when compared to the OTL invasion of Iraq.

Should also be noted that American troops are still in Darfur. Iwanh left it sort of ambigious, but there was a hint that the conflict in Sudan was far from over, with the explicit mention of rising militias in response to the American invasion.

 

[Guy712]

Postal 2 relies heavily on Bush Era trends, so probably not, lol.

Manhunt is still a likely thing. Don't see why it would get butterflied in a no-9/11 timeline.

This reminds me, here's a list of games that were affected by the September 11th Attacks
Grand Theft Auto III - The paint scheme of Liberty City's police cars were changed from a blue-and-white design based on the NYPD to a standard black-and-white design, other changes include altering AI plane flight paths which went near skyscrapers, the ability to blow up airplanes with a rocket launcher, a few lines of pedestrian dialogue, talk radio, and the narration in the game's intro which mentioned dead police officers and terrorists. And the ability to shoot off NPC limbs was reduced to a unlockable cheat. Rockstar actually thought off cancelling the game after 9/11 believe or not, this didn't help due to the fact that their offices in NYC were a couple blocks north of Ground Zero. Also you know the famous GTA cover style with shots of the characters and what not? That would never exist without 9/11. The original cover featured large amounts of explosions which Rockstar thought was two sensitive.
Spider-Man 2: Enter Electro - The final level of the game took place on top of the Twin Towers, this changed to a generic pair of buildings with a bridge added in between, there was also a cutscene that would've taken place after the fight with Thor and Spider-Man. Other alterations were changed level names to avoid potentially insensitive references.
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem - There was going to be a playable character named Joseph De Molay, a Templar Knight during the crusades and textures that had Arabic writing were cut.
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty - There was a cutscene of Arsenal Gear, a giant mobile fortress, dislocating the Statue of Liberty and crashing into Lower Manhattan as well as a newscast showing the Statue of Liberty now resting at Ellis Island, and a scene where Solidus Snake shreds the New York Stock Exchange Flag with his sword during Arsenal Gears crash and the fall of said flag over his body after his death, American flags on all the flagpoles in New York were removed, and finally, Raiden's name was changed from katakana to kanji due to the former form of the name resembling "Bin Laden" in Japanese.
Propeller Arena - The game was completed but was cancelled and never released, the game is about dogfighting in planes and one level takes place around a city of skyscrapers based on New York.
Savage Skies - The game was originally conceived as a licensed tie-in-game endorsed by Ozzy Osbourne called Ozzy's Black Skies, but due to licensing issues and the impact of 9/11 caused the developers to rework the game and remove the Osbourne branding.
Tony Hawk's Pro-Skater 3 - In the Airport level where the player had to stop pick pocketers, they were originally terrorists.

 

[TheKennedyMachine.]

Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty - There was a cutscene of Arsenal Gear, a giant mobile fortress, dislocating the Statue of Liberty and crashing into Lower Manhattan as well as a newscast showing the Statue of Liberty now resting at Ellis Island, and a scene where the antagonist Solidus Snake shreds the New York Stock Exchange Flag with his sword during Arsenal Gears crash and the fall of said flag over his body after his death, American flags on all the flagpoles in New York were removed, and finally, Raiden's name was changed from katakana to kanji due to the former form of the name resembling "Bin Laden" in Japanese.

Sons of Liberty is probably one of the greatest games ever made, so the idea of it being even cooler is great news.