Alan Hardy
Banned
I guess "post number 17" version needs to replace the pixelated top proposal or be placed into the poll on its own merit.
Flag Contest for the Union of Sovereign Republics
- Thread starter An Oklahoman
- Start date
Just kidding, let's be a democracy here.So I can vote for my flag?
Thanks.
I voted for "Twister Ace's First" that is to say an appropriate version of CIS flag of OTL--hoping that ITTL the greater union will be the relevant political unit, and that control of it will not be completely Russian. OTL I am flabbergasted that the Russians tossed the Central Asian republics out when there was practically no sedition there and the USSR had invested a lot in infrastructure that ignored Republic boundaries and treated the USSR as one big empire--which meant OTL it was all dissected. There was nothing the Russians could or should have done to retain the Baltics, and probably could not have retained Ukraine by any fair means, and I suppose Georgia, Armenia, and Moldova were just about as discontented. Belarus, though, I suspect could and probably should have been retained--and all of the 'Stans. The Russians chose to eject the latter because the Central Asian republics had been subsidized, and I think it would be easy to show that simple bigoted fear of the Asians dominating a larger union through higher birthrate was a huge factor.
In the ATL, it is possible that not only the cases that would have been harder to keep (Ukraine down to Belarus by way of Caucasian republics and Moldova) but even the 'Stans have in fact developed secessionism to a degree not accomplished OTL. But vice versa it is also possible that the Red Army experience which would in principle combine soldiers of all nationalities together might serve as a counter-force and a lobby tending to favor continued union, especially with guarantees of regional autonomy.
So, I hope the new larger government, whatever name it settles on, would include more than OTL Russia--as many of the above listed states as possible. Perhaps with sufficient incentives even Ukraine can agree to union and I'd optimistically hope so.
So getting back to the flag, the larger entity, whatever its name and organizational details, should be viewed as successor state to the USSR, not just Russia, and the leadership and policy of that entity would be internationally relevant. As a new thing, a sharp break with the past is indicated.
Although the author says there is no continuity with Russian history with this flag, I could point out that a point in its favor is that such a design did emerge from actual former Soviet citizens OTL; we aren't making it up, former Soviet people did. The ATL version should differ, if there are different numbers of component republics.
Now all this said I am pretty amazed that among all the other alternatives, no one voted for Alan Hardy's Second Proposal, which would be my personal second choice. It's biggest drawback is that it is fussy to render; it is not clear to me if Alan Hardy intended the exact rectangular pixellations that are shown here to be part of the canonical flag or if we are meant to imagine smoother boundary lines. That said, I really do not like the smoothing that was done in the posts above to simplify the lines either. I believe it can be done better, but the wrong kind of smoothing loses the resemblance at a glance to the former USSR.
Other than this complication inherent in the concept, I think it is pretty brilliantly executed and am surprised it doesn't get more recognition. Perhaps it is everyone's #2 choice?
I found the real counter-contender to Twister Ace's 1st, which is O'Lexis 89's flag, to suffer for lack of a full size-display; were I able to see it full-size I might change my vote. But probably not; I don't see any continuity with Soviet/Russian history in either TL in it and it is a little busy. That said, I'd much rather see it flying over Russia than most of the others, given that the TL has gone in the direction of a clean break with Bolshevism. Since the same could be said of my choice (except that real OTL Soviet people proposed Twister Ace's) I shouldn't worry too much that IMHO the style is a bit too standardized and all too likely to stand for a state that shrugs off the principle of equal union it abstractly champions--but TwA's 1st alludes to the same principle in a more vivid and original way.
Combining the two, I think one clear winner we have is a strong vote in favor of recognizing a new union composed of diverse members of equal status.
In the ATL, it is possible that not only the cases that would have been harder to keep (Ukraine down to Belarus by way of Caucasian republics and Moldova) but even the 'Stans have in fact developed secessionism to a degree not accomplished OTL. But vice versa it is also possible that the Red Army experience which would in principle combine soldiers of all nationalities together might serve as a counter-force and a lobby tending to favor continued union, especially with guarantees of regional autonomy.
So, I hope the new larger government, whatever name it settles on, would include more than OTL Russia--as many of the above listed states as possible. Perhaps with sufficient incentives even Ukraine can agree to union and I'd optimistically hope so.
So getting back to the flag, the larger entity, whatever its name and organizational details, should be viewed as successor state to the USSR, not just Russia, and the leadership and policy of that entity would be internationally relevant. As a new thing, a sharp break with the past is indicated.
Although the author says there is no continuity with Russian history with this flag, I could point out that a point in its favor is that such a design did emerge from actual former Soviet citizens OTL; we aren't making it up, former Soviet people did. The ATL version should differ, if there are different numbers of component republics.
Now all this said I am pretty amazed that among all the other alternatives, no one voted for Alan Hardy's Second Proposal, which would be my personal second choice. It's biggest drawback is that it is fussy to render; it is not clear to me if Alan Hardy intended the exact rectangular pixellations that are shown here to be part of the canonical flag or if we are meant to imagine smoother boundary lines. That said, I really do not like the smoothing that was done in the posts above to simplify the lines either. I believe it can be done better, but the wrong kind of smoothing loses the resemblance at a glance to the former USSR.
Other than this complication inherent in the concept, I think it is pretty brilliantly executed and am surprised it doesn't get more recognition. Perhaps it is everyone's #2 choice?
I found the real counter-contender to Twister Ace's 1st, which is O'Lexis 89's flag, to suffer for lack of a full size-display; were I able to see it full-size I might change my vote. But probably not; I don't see any continuity with Soviet/Russian history in either TL in it and it is a little busy. That said, I'd much rather see it flying over Russia than most of the others, given that the TL has gone in the direction of a clean break with Bolshevism. Since the same could be said of my choice (except that real OTL Soviet people proposed Twister Ace's) I shouldn't worry too much that IMHO the style is a bit too standardized and all too likely to stand for a state that shrugs off the principle of equal union it abstractly champions--but TwA's 1st alludes to the same principle in a more vivid and original way.
Combining the two, I think one clear winner we have is a strong vote in favor of recognizing a new union composed of diverse members of equal status.
For the full-size, click on the flag picture, because it is quite big. But if you want to have it full size... BEHOLD!
You know what? I agree with you. I think I got carried away on that part. ^^'
An Oklahoman
Banned
We still have five days of voting left. However, it looks increasingly likely that O'Alexis and Twister Ace are going to be the finalists.
Le shock. I did not expect that my flag would have so many votes...
Soooo... Northern Ireland doesn't have a proper flag?
SCREW YOU TEACHER! WHY DID YOU LIE TO US, STUDENTS?!
Anyway, good Polandball.
Honhonhon!
SCREW YOU TEACHER! WHY DID YOU LIE TO US, STUDENTS?!
Anyway, good Polandball.
Honhonhon!
An Oklahoman
Banned
First round is closing. Second Round Poll will run until the 30th of August.
First Round Results:
Sartorius: 4 votes
TA #1: 16
TA #2: 2
TA#3: 8
O'Alexis 89: 18
Czarist #1: 3
Czarist #2: 3
Hardy #1: 3
Hardy #2: 1
Hardy #: 1
First Round Results:
Sartorius: 4 votes
TA #1: 16
TA #2: 2
TA#3: 8
O'Alexis 89: 18
Czarist #1: 3
Czarist #2: 3
Hardy #1: 3
Hardy #2: 1
Hardy #: 1
An Oklahoman
Banned
Here comes the embarassing part... How do I delete the previous poll and post a new one
Well... Whoa. I did not expect that! Now, on to the biggest part... THE SECOND RUN.
Good luck TwisterAce.
An Oklahoman
Banned
An Oklahoman
Banned
You can post it that way we can see what it was (even thought we won't vote on it.
Nah that's fine I'm just saying since well I came back from a "fishing trip" a while ago and I have better things to do.