DBWI: Furthest Hitler could have conquered

[ThirdMan2005]

We know that Adolf Hitler was assassinated in 1938 after the Anschluss and that later evidence was discovered that he planned to take over Europe. If he was not assassinated and Germany stayed fascist instead of becoming communist, how far do you think he could have conquered?

 

[Koprulu Mustafa Pasha]

We know that Adolf Hitler was assassinated in 1938 after the Anschluss and that later evidence was discovered that he planned to take over Europe. If he was not assassinated and Germany stayed fascist instead of becoming communist, how far do you think he could have conquered?

He would not get past France and Poland.

 

[Rufus Shinra]

He would not get past France and Poland.

This. The Little Entente wiped the floor with Germany in ‘43 as part of the Doctrine d’Endiguement, and we’re supposed to believe that Germany could have defeated either or both of them when they had the defensive advantage?

 

[James Ricker]

Judging from what Stalin was up to if Hitler had invaded Poland Hitler could have made a move on Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union with France and Great Britain remaining neutral or giving material support.
Hitler could have gone to the Ural mountains. How long he could have stood there is another question entirely.

 

[TheKutKu]

Judging from what Stalin was up to if Hitler had invaded Poland Hitler could have made a move on Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union with France and Great Britain remaining neutral or giving material support.
Hitler could have gone to the Ural mountains. How long he could have stood there is another question entirely.

To the Ural???

Germany had a corrupt and in apt leadership, with subpar tanks and no navy. Even if you assume a best case scenario (and extremely improbable) where France just sits on the maginot while Germany attacks Poland, they would be lucky to secure he West side of the Vistula.

Against the USSR? yes it’s true that after the purge the red army was a joke, but even if Hitler somehow succeeds against Poland, that war would take more than a year and that's enough time for the red army to prepare

 

[James Ricker]

To the Ural???

Germany had a corrupt and in apt leadership, with subpar tanks and no navy. Even if you assume a best case scenario (and extremely improbable) where France just sits on the maginot while Germany attacks Poland, they would be lucky to secure he West side of the Vistula.

Against the USSR? yes it’s true that after the purge the red army was a joke, but even if Hitler somehow succeeds against Poland, that war would take more than a year and five time for the red army to prepare

I was counting on Stalin invading Poland first, Stalin wanted payback for Warsaw.
The Germans wouldn't be able to stay Urals long before being forced back.

 

[Rufus Shinra]

I was counting on Stalin invading Poland first, Stalin wanted payback for Warsaw.
The Germans wouldn't be able to stay Urals long before being forced back.

Stalin, invading Poland? He’d be hard-pressed invding my cat’s litter.

 

[James Ricker]

Stalin, invading Poland? He’d be hard-pressed invding my cat’s litter.

This is Stalin we're talking about. What Stalin wanted the Soviets did, reguardless of the consequences

 

[FillyofDelphi]

This is Stalin we're talking about. What Stalin wanted the Soviets did, reguardless of the consequences

Stalin also knew he was only barely tolerated by the rest of the world, and was only in as good a diplomatic position as he was due to strict adherance to non-expansionist "Socialism in One Country" policies. Attacking towards Europe would have only served to turn the Capitalist world against him the second Germany was surpressed or,worse, could have only strengthened the radical wings on the Right as the "Commies are going to Invade" rhetoric is vindicated.

 

[CalBear]

He would not get past France and Poland.

France?

Really?

Through the Maginot Line? The German Army would have been obliterated. Even their tanks couldn't have saved them, the only place they could have tried to get around The Line was the Ardennes, no way that tanks or even aircraft could help them in that thicket. If they'd tried the survivors would have stumbled into the guns of the French Army and BEF. Would have been over in six weeks.

 

[Anarcho-Occultist]

Could maybe grab Poland and the Baltics but wouldn’t get much further than that. France and Britain would clobber them in the West and even in the East the Soviet manpower advantage would ultimately turn the tide even in a German-wank scenario

 

[Agra]

France?

Really?

Through the Maginot Line? The German Army would have been obliterated. Even their tanks couldn't have saved them, the only place they could have tried to get around The Line was the Ardennes, no way that tanks or even aircraft could help them in that thicket. If they'd tried the survivors would have stumbled into the guns of the French Army and BEF. Would have been over in six weeks.

Nah I bet they get held up in Belgium. The Belgians learned their lesson the first time back in 1914. The British and the French will deploy their forces in Belgium and we'll get a replay of the Western Front but in Flanders.

 

[CalBear]

Nah I bet they get held up in Belgium. The Belgians learned their lesson the first time back in 1914. The British and the French will deploy their forces in Belgium and we'll get a replay of the Western Front but in Flanders.

You think? I agree that the German Army would get stopped if it tried Belgium again (assuming they didn't learn their lesson about Flanders the 1st time) but I really don't think that trenches would stop the French Char tanks. Those things were tough as hell.

I would more expect that the French and British, after the Germans wasted there best troops trying to force The Line, would send their mobile forces across the border and head straight for Berlin. Be like a cavalry charge, but with motorcycles and Bren carriers.

 

[nbcman]

He would not get past France and Poland.

Poland? What’s all this talk about Poland? They were friendly with Germany in 1938. Czechoslovakia was Hitler’s target. The Little Entente and the Allies would have mopped up the Germans. Heck, Benny the Moose would have headed north when he saw the Germans going down. Look how well the Italian Alpini divisions did when they fought the communist Germans to liberate Austria.

 

[McPherson]

We know that Adolf Hitler was assassinated in 1938 after the Anschluss and that later evidence was discovered that he planned to take over Europe. If he was not assassinated and Germany stayed fascist instead of becoming communist, how far do you think he could have conquered?

Agree with most of the above. HOWEVER... if he does eat the arsenic laced bratwurst, and expires and if Fatso and Blockhead both join him faceplanted into their sausages at the same sitdown lunch, then things assume a different slant.

We can speculate that a mid-grade Apparatschik (*Think German version of Khrushchev) has Himmler packed off to an unmarked grave and gives a secret "Hitler was a fool" speech to the surviving "cronies committee".

Given what kind of technician the selectee, say Albert Speer for example, is... Things look a lot different.

 

[FillyofDelphi]

You think? I agree that the German Army would get stopped if it tried Belgium again (assuming they didn't learn their lesson about Flanders the 1st time) but I really don't think that trenches would stop the French Char tanks. Those things were tough as hell.

I would more expect that the French and British, after the Germans wasted there best troops trying to force The Line, would send their mobile forces across the border and head straight for Berlin. Be like a cavalry charge, but with motorcycles and Bren carriers.

You're assuming the Ethno-Fascists would try to force the Line though. I mean, the Red government tried because they had the zeal of the convert and had been hyped up by Soviet propaganda that the French workers were just waiting to rise up and promises of material and volunteers (both of which they were just as generous with as they'd been with the Spainards... only the Nazis had the foresight to ship their gold reserves out of the country before thw rebels got their hands on it.), but why would Hitler?

 

[CalBear]

You're assuming the Ethno-Fascists would try to force the Line though. I mean, the Red government tried because they had the zeal of the convert and had been hyped up by Soviet propaganda that the French workers were just waiting to rise up and promises of material and volunteers (both of which they were just as generous with as they'd been with the Spainards... only the Nazis had the foresight to ship their gold reserves out of the country before thw rebels got their hands on it.), but why would Hitler?

I'm not sure he would have, but that was the only way into France for a large army. The Ardennes was a no chance idea. Belgium? Well we all know what a flat God-awful place that is to fight, something that Hitler, who served on the Western Front had to remember. I mean the man was clearly half a bubble off plumb, just look at the insane laws he pushed through before he died drooling at the supper table, but he couldn't have actually been that out of touch.

 

[FillyofDelphi]

I'm not sure he would have, but that was the only way into France for a large army. The Ardennes was a no chance idea. Belgium? Well we all know what a flat God-awful place that is to fight, something that Hitler, who served on the Western Front had to remember. I mean the man was clearly half a bubble off plumb, just look at the insane laws he pushed through before he died drooling at the supper table, but he couldn't have actually been that out of touch.

Who says he's even going to launch an offensive campaign against the French? If he tried to order something that foolish you'd see the general staff pulling a coup or the men on the ground, who grew up on stories of the Western Front, mutiny against being thrown into the meat grinders. I mean, the man was very clear his ambitions lay in the EAST, and if he's already knocked in the Frankenstein state that was Czechoslovakia how long do you think the French public are going to tolerate a policy of total war.

Domestic policy may have been screwy, sure, but nothing Hitler did before he died suggested he was hellbent on destroying Western Europe and wasent willing to play by at least badic international rules. So long as Poland stays allied, Bohemia would likely be his last territorial demand in Europe

 

[Agra]

Domestic policy may have been screwy, sure, but nothing Hitler did before he died suggested he was hellbent on destroying Western Europe and wasnt willing to play by at least badic international rules. So long as Poland stays allied, Bohemia would likely be his last territorial demand in Europe

I dunno, he was originally born in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, if he goes after the Bohemia maybe he goes after some other old Hapsburg land. I don't think Britain and France would jump at the chance to defend Yugoslavia if they let him get away with invading the Czechs. He was allied with the Italians, Germany could even use the Dalmatian War as an excuse to justify a partition.

 

[Wolttaire]

maybe France acted like a idiot same with Britain did all the wrong things then maybe they could go in same with russia