British Florida: the TL

Florida in the other Great War
Assuming there is a second world war in the same approximate time frame as OTL, it would have, as OTL, a much greater impact on Florida than the first one.

Not only did the war last two years longer, but mechanization had increased by leaps and bounds in the intervening thirty years, and the American involvement was almost four times as long.

Before American involvement, Florida would again see a substantial portion of its labour force head to Europe; but, far more than during WWI, Florida would become an important industrial hub, primarily for aircraft and ship building. These industries would draw more labourers off the farms of Florida. The farm labourers were largely replaced by West Indian and African-American migrant workers.

Due to the mild climate, relatively lower wages, distance from the European front and location on the most direct routes to North Africa, Florida's economy really boomed once the Americans entered the fray. Although the effects are muted compared to OTL, Florida would still house tens of thousands of American soldiers, albeit temporarily, during and after the war. Being allies throughout the war led to the development of an integrated North American industrial network which proved easily adaptable to consumer products once the war had ended.

Agricultural production also grew exponentially as Floridian crops helped keep the allies fed.

The explosion of economic productivity helped transform Florida into a modern industrial nation, and brought plenty more Americans who would return with their families for vacation, or as retirees, after the war.

Paved roads and motor vehicles, both widely in use by the armed forces, became a common sight during this period.

After the war, Florida became an enthusiastic member of the Western Allies, although successive post war governments were heavily influenced by the robust welfare states being developed in Australasia, Britain and western Europe.
 
Some questions on a Spanish American war.

Did the British have any interest in taking Cuba, would they have any if they already hold Florida?

How much of America's interest in Cuba was because Florida was right there?
If they don't have Florida will Cuba seem more distant and unimportant?

If the Spanish American war does happen it can't launch from Florida, where does the Cuban invasion force come from and does a longer trip make the invasion harder?
 
Some questions on a Spanish American war.

Did the British have any interest in taking Cuba, would they have any if they already hold Florida?

How much of America's interest in Cuba was because Florida was right there?
If they don't have Florida will Cuba seem more distant and unimportant?

If the Spanish American war does happen it can't launch from Florida, where does the Cuban invasion force come from and does a longer trip make the invasion harder?
I knew I was missing something.

Yeah an alt Spanish-American war deserves a thread post of its own.

Do I think the USA will have less interest in Cuba? They were interested in the Philippines and Puerto Rico. If anything, I think that not having Florida might make Cuba more attractive. However, as you point out, there are some logistical issues.

IIRC the closest physical point from Cuba to the USA is actually New Orleans (from the western tip. Let me see if I can find a map).

(Edit; I did not recall correctly. Florida, at Key West, is obviously and by far the closest point from Cuba to the USA.

What I was misremembering is the map of the USA that shows closest foreign countries to th USA...for Florida, the closest foreign country is the Bahamas.)

Another one is the unresolved status (ITTL) of the Virgin Islands, which have substantial commercial links with Florida.

Thank you though, I will have to do some reading before giving a full response.
 
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Wrt American interest, there had been American interests from even before the Civil war, especially the southern planter class that envisioned creating a "golden circle" of slave states throughout the Caribbean.

Even setting those particular interests aside, there was a bit of a movement in the US that really wanted to enforce the Monroe doctrine to push out the European powers (so the US could be the sole great power of the Americas). Obviously the British and French positions in the circum Caribbean were (are) strong, but Spain was a waining power that could barely hold on to what they had left in the Americas
 
What kinda shenanigans does TTL's Florida Man get up to?
Possibly, since that phenomenon is actually the result of a pretty great law and not any moral failing on Floridians:


Edit: also, in this universe, "Floridian" may be pronounced "Flaw-region"
Asked and answered on page 2
 
Okay, I've past World War II. Were into "Modern day Florida". I'm thinking I might shift gears into a more "topical" approach rather than a decade-by-decade breakdown of events, although I can see the value in that as well.

Maybe the best think is to just open up the forum to see what people want, what I've left out, etc.

I do have at least one Early Cold War politics post in the works; I think it would be remiss if I didn't touch on events in Cuba (which actually could tie in nicely with the Spanish-American War post).

Probably worth it to talk about Florida's role in the West Indies Federation. I guess it makes sense to discuss the Civil Rights Movement (in the USA) as well.

Anything else?
 
A few ideas:
What are the border cities like?

Has the ecology changed any? Extinctions, different invasive species, things like that.

Without Florida do any of the Gulf Coast states take over as the beachy/touristy destination?
Speaking of, UK drinking age is 18, does Florida become even more of a Spring Break mecca?
I read that before 1923 it was 14 for beer and 16 for spirits, could Florida decide to keep it that low to get more business from the U.S.?
 
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A few ideas:
What are the border cities like?

Has the ecology changed any? Extinctions, different invasive species, things like that.

Without Florida do any of the Gulf Coast states take over as the beachy/touristy destination?
Speaking of, UK drinking age is 18, does Florida become even more of a Spring Break mecca?
I read that before 1923 it was 14 for beer and 16 for spirits, could Florida decide to keep it that low to get more business from the U.S.?
So doing some quick digging, the legal drinking age in the Bahamas OTL was set at 16 in 1717, and remained there until 1988 when it was increased to 18.

In Ontario, it was set at 21 during the brief prohibition period, reduced to 18 in 1971 and increased to 19 in 1978, although it is 18 in most other Canadian provinces.

It's possible that the drinking age could be increased to 18 (or even 21) officially, although with lax enforcement, during the US prohibition era, to avoid some of the direct ire from prohibitionists in America...but probably safe to say that by the 1970s or 1980s at the latest the drinking age has settled at 18.

One big difference could be the existence of all-inclusive resorts from Spring Break in Florida (my understanding is that "alcohol included" resorts in the USA are illegal.) ITTL, Florida's spring break scene is probably less reminiscent of Daytona Beach and more like Cancun.

In terms of American states- I think yes, the Gulf Coast but also the South Carolina/Georgia coast will be much busier tourist destinations, especially among the crowd who don't hold passports.
 
Will Florida as a potential launch site mean a more ambitious British space program?

Where will the U.S. launch from, or will they pay to launch from Florida?
 
Will Florida as a potential launch site mean a more ambitious British space program?

Where will the U.S. launch from, or will they pay to launch from Florida?
I suspect the south Texas coast. Florida is a possibility, but I think for security reasons the USA would want the launch site in the USA.

As for the prospect of a British launch site - I'll have to examine the OTL British/Commonwealth space program in further detail

Thanks for the continued input!
 
The border towns is definitely something I'll have to work on. Of course, IOTL, there is no international border, so there aren't really any communities of note along Florida's northern border (aside from Pensacola and Jacksonville, who's metro areas come very close to the borders).

This will obviously change ITTL as there will need to be controlled border crossings, which will create several towns.

Thanks to both for this, I'll definitely have to do some more digging to see what would likely arise.

I grew up pretty close to the US-Canadian border myself, so I can probably give a decent estimate of how the north Florida culture will be effected.
 
Thanks! These are all great questions.

I've been inspired to do maybe a "tour of the Florida regions", as their likely wouldn't be one culture or accent throughout the country.

ITTL, the accent of African-Americans, especially in the south, and especially closer to the border, has more noticeable Caribbean influences than IOTL (probably not very noticeable in the north, and most noticeable as mentioned close to the border and in what IOTL is the Gullah-Geechee areas).

In Florida, the border accent is probably quite similar to Bermudian English IOTL.

For most black Floridians not on the borders, the accent is probably most similar to OTL Bahamas.

Miami, like IOTL, will have a substantial Cuban expat population whose language and culture significantly influence that region (although, compared to OTL, the population of non-Cuban Latinoamericanos Will be significantly reduced).

The northwest will still maintain some of its French/creole influences (as in New Orleans).

In the areas west of the Everglades, there are likely pockets of Seminoles and Maroons or Maroon-like populations speaking a "deep Patwa"


This young man is demonstrating the Bermudian accent. (Although he mentions that he also lived in the USA for a while). This is probably pretty close to the border accent or the African-American accent on the US side of the border.


And here's a white Bermudian, Collie Buddz, who's music was very popular in Ontario when I was in university.

Actually, on second thought, I'll include this link:


My homeboy, Dylan Murray. Not sure the exact connection, he's a Canadian with part Jamaican heritage. I've played a couple of shows with him. When he speaks, he has a standard Canadian accent.

Maybe there's a connection! I feel like Floridians are going to be adept at a variety of accents, with lots of code-switching depending on context.
 
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Ok, here's a bad map I created. There's a few things to note - the western and northern borders could be slightly different. I've divided Florida into 7 cultural "regions", and labelled them, for purposes of reference when I discuss them. It seems like Florida would probably not be a federal country, although it's possible, so these regions may or may not correspond with "provinces" or "districts"
 

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One of those "Seven ways to divide Florida memes" might say something like this: (tongue-in-cheek)

West Florida: Basically Louisiana, but more authentic
St. Augustine: Basically Charleston, but bigger
Central Florida: basically Hollywood, but poorer
Biscayne: Basically Cuba, but capitalist
Tampa Bay: the "Heartland" of Florida, most typical. Like Queensland crossed with the Bahamas.
Calusa: basically Jamaica, but with swamps instead of mountains
the Midlands: basically Deliverance
 
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