Bicentennial Man: Ford '76 and Beyond

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Nazi Space Spy

Banned
Not trying to get into current politics anymore than this single sentence, but it is astounding that Liz Holtzman is still politically active - she was a candidate for congress this year, in fact. Interesting to see her get the big prize in the end, and I wouldn't be surprised if she becomes a candidate for President in 1992 or something in this timeline.
 

peeter

Nazi Space Spy said:
Not trying to get into current politics anymore than this single sentence, but it is astounding that Liz Holtzman is still politically active - she was a candidate for congress this year, in fact. Interesting to see her get the big prize in the end, and I wouldn't be surprised if she becomes a candidate for President in 1992 or something in this timeline.
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I could see her being a potential vice presidential candidate to Askew in 88
 

KingSweden24

SultanArda said:
I wonder what would happen in 1983 Elections. OTL route (ANAP), Military route (MDP) or social-democratic (HP) route?
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My apologies for not answering this, my plan is the OTL route with Evren sticking around again
peeter said:
I’d imagine she’d be in the Ted Kennedy wing of the party. I am interested to see how the New Left reacts to Carey’s presidency

Yep, I admit I’m saying this as in the moment speculation and I haven’t done any research on it but I’d imagine that the southern democratic machine died off because after the Carter presidency a lot of southerners didn’t see the use of southern moderates anymore. 1980 was the final chapter of the new deal coalition and it was clear there was a conservative era coming through so if you weren’t a Republican or a conservative democrat southerners had no use for you anymore. However with the economic troubles of the late 70s being attributed to conservative leadership New South moderates would have the momentum to fill the gaps that the old guard Dixiecrats left.
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Yeah, hence a swingy “alienated” South that doesn’t gel with either party through much of the 80s and 90s
Nazi Space Spy said:
Not trying to get into current politics anymore than this single sentence, but it is astounding that Liz Holtzman is still politically active - she was a candidate for congress this year, in fact. Interesting to see her get the big prize in the end, and I wouldn't be surprised if she becomes a candidate for President in 1992 or something in this timeline.
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Did you hack my notes again? 🙃

I will say good for Liz for coming out of thirty years of retirement and anonymity to randomly run for Congress at 80 years old. Not sure what she thought she’d accomplish but if I lived in that district she’d have gotten my meme vote that’s for sure
 
Sir William Jol

Sir William Jol

KingSweden24 said:
My apologies for not answering this, my plan is the OTL route with Evren sticking around again

Yeah, hence a swingy “alienated” South that doesn’t gel with either party through much of the 80s and 90s

Did you hack my notes again? 🙃

I will say good for Liz for coming out of thirty years of retirement and anonymity to randomly run for Congress at 80 years old. Not sure what she thought she’d accomplish but if I lived in that district she’d have gotten my meme vote that’s for sure
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Looks like we may get a President Elizabeth Holtzman ITTL at some point then, looking forward to it! Wonder if she did win and had a semi-successful and popular presidency whether she would run for her old Senate seat in 2022 instead of the lower house of Congress, the House of Representatives?🤔
 
Kennedy Forever

Kennedy Forever

GDIS Pathe said:
Some wikiboxes, first the Presidential election, where Hugh Carey successfully monsters the Gipper by a decisive, if not landslide margin (an Obama 08/Bush 88 style victory), and the Senate where Dems ride Carey's coattails and their own incumbent strength to wield a 20+ seat majority the likes of which were last seen during FDR.

View attachment 774252View attachment 774249

Note: Assuming Baker becomes minority leader in 79 rather then 77 historically he only beat Bob Griffin by a single vote in the GOP's senate leadership contest, and Gerry Ford's re-elect probably gives the Senator from Michigan some more pull. Of course, Griffin gets thumped in 78, Dole's Veep, so Baker still ends up last man standing.)

And in case anyone is wondering *just* how overexposed Dems are in the Class III Senate map, well... yeah.
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Great wikiboxes. What a wipeout for Republicans in the Senate! Great job :)
 

Bluechair607

KingSweden24 said:
1980 United States Presidential election

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Map Made with US Election Atlas
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While I am no expert in US elections, the Carolina's here seem off. Historically they have both voted left of Texas in the elections quite significantly in '76 and 80, and only slightly in '84.

While I think a lot of it is due to Carter being from Georgia, I would think that a lot of '76 Carter voters would vote for Carey due to anti GOP backlash.
 

thenextguy

Two days later, on the weekend before the election, the Sunday edition of most newspapers led with a story of Salvadoran soldiers raping and murdering several American nuns, a grim reminder of the chaotic atmosphere [1] in Latin America under Gerald Ford's second term and certainly an unhelpful headline for Republican campaigns, even if El Salvador was far from the minds of most voters.
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Will Carey reduce US involvement in the region?
 

Thoresby

Nazi Space Spy said:
Interesting to see her get the big prize in the end, and I wouldn't be surprised if she becomes a candidate for President in 1992 or something in this timeline.
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peeter said:
I could see her being a potential vice presidential candidate to Askew in 88
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KingSweden24 said:
Did you hack my notes again? 🙃
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The Democrats putting a left wing Jewish woman from New York on the ticket seems the ideal way to ensure that the GOP wins the 1988 election.
 

Thoresby

NedStark said:
In another year, perhaps. Not in 1988, though.
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I wouldn't be so sure. Carey has won a smaller victory than Reagan and while the combination of Ford, Carey and butterflies have delayed/butterflied the formation of the Sixth Party System a lot of the structural behind it still exist. The "Moral Majority" backlash against the social changes of the 60's and 70's hasn't gone away though it hasn't been channelled into electing GOP Presidents yet and may very well not be channelled into the GOP at all if the Democrats keep nominating people like Carey. But if the Democrats run someone like Holtzman, especially after 8 years of a Democratic Presidency, they are going to have a serious uphill struggle.
 

Anadyr

I've always wondered if there's going to be a timeline where McGovern actually retains his Senate seat. I know a bit about South Dakota, and I really don't think it's in the realm of ASB provided that:
-There's no GOP landslide
-McGovern actually believes he can win and begins campaigning and fundraising with his heart in it
-There's no national campaign targeting pro-abortion politicians, which was the biggest difference between Abdnor and McGovern
 
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peeter

Anadyr said:
I've always wondered if there's going to be a timeline where McGovern actually retains his Senate seat. I know a bit about South Dakota, and I really don't provide it's in the realm of ASB provided that:
-There's no GOP landslide
-McGovern actually believes he can win and begins campaigning and fundraising with his heart in it
-There's no national campaign targeting pro-abortion politicians, which was the biggest split between Abdnor and McGovern
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Doing a quick read on wiki to your credit McGovern was able to close the gap on Abnor so it’s certainly not ASB for McGovern to win in a scenario like this. If I had to guess a big part of the reason McGovern lost was that a lot of South Dakotans felt he cared more about being a national figure for his New Left than being a Senator for South Dakota. I actually wouldn’t be surprised that because of Ford’s presidency McGovern is more prominent on the national stage as an opponent of conservatism/critic of Ford but it could hurt him.

I share your view that McGovern deserves a TL (other than Mcgoverning) that gives him better political fortunes than the one he got IRL
 

TGW

Anadyr said:
I've always wondered if there's going to be a timeline where McGovern actually retains his Senate seat. I know a bit about South Dakota, and I really don't provide it's in the realm of ASB provided that:
-There's no GOP landslide
-McGovern actually believes he can win and begins campaigning and fundraising with his heart in it
-There's no national campaign targeting pro-abortion politicians, which was the biggest split between Abdnor and McGovern
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I agree that McGovern deserves better in general. Curious to see where the author, in all his wisdom, puts him in the cabinet!
 
GDIS Pathe

GDIS Pathe

A wikibox of the 1978 Senate Elections, in case anyone is wondering where most of that 72* seat Dem majority in 1981 came from. Where Democrats took a fairly evenly divided class II Map and then proceeded to clean the Republicans clock.

Dems toppled two Midwestern GOP titans in Chuck Percy and Bob Griffin, and with the assistance of Conservative insurgents, picked up Cliff Case and Ed Brooke's seats out East, plus that of the dumbest Senator in Washington, William Scott in VA, before promptly smashing the Republicans in the states west of the Mississippi. Claiming two seats with popular Governors David Boren and James Exon in Oklahoma and Nebraska, knocking off incumbent John Tower in Texas, who's amazing luck finally runs out (Charlie Wilson, you could've been Senator...), and Pete Domenici in NM, and completing things with a Kansas* massacre in the Sunflower state (RIP Bob Dole's political fortunes).
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(Dis)Honorable mention goes to Jesse Helms, who ekes out a single point win amidst an atrocious national environment for the GOP. (Where's Jim Hunt when you need him...)
 
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Devoid

GDIS Pathe said:
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GDIS Pathe said:
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Jesus Christ. Wondering whether people will blame Nixon or Dole for so utterly trashing the GOP. I mean, Herbert f*cking Hoover was the last person to so thoroughly screw over the party. If the Eisenhower-Nixon-Ford moderates want the presidency come '88, '92, '96, or whenever the next time the GOP wins is, they'd better hope a Reagan-Goldwater right nominee gets crushed in a 1984 Carey re-elect (and better yet, loses an eminently winnable 1988 and/or 1992), because their wing's reputation must be in... well, I'd say tatters, but I fear that may overestimate the size of the pieces.
 
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