Practically anything involving northeastern India, southwestern China, Burma, and the whole Indochinese peninsula.
Best and or most underused pods pre 1900?
- Thread starter dianaswordofsappho
- Start date
Bassarion Korax
Banned
Just to name a few that come to mind...
1. A more outward looking Egypt, one that concerns itself with empire building not just in the Levant, but also Cyprus, Cilicia, Pamphylia, maybe even Greece and Libya, Tunisia, Algeria as well.
2. Alternate silks. The Europeans were making their own wild silks during Classical Antiquity... maybe this goes somewhere? Alternatively, I saw @Revachah I believe positing a West African kind of silk a few months back.
3. Moose Domestication in North America or Siberia.
4. A successful Franco-Mongol Alliance that is able to crush the Mamluks. What happens to Islam in the long term? Is it replaced with something more akin to the Baha'i Faith? Perhaps it disintegrates and becomes an ethnic religion practiced only by Arabs.
5. No Massacre of the Latins, which likely butterflies the 4th Crusade.
6. Cancelling the Gregorian Reforms. Simony remains the norm and priests are permitted to marry and have children in the Catholic Church. Perhaps the schism between Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism can be healed sooner?
7. Jesus becoming enveloped in Zealotry.
8. Jesus marrying and fathering children, perhaps fostering a different religious movement that can be syncretized more with some kind of Greco-Roman religion.
9. Siddhartha Gautama actually dies while he is starving himself during his bout with asceticism, resulting in an abortion of Buddhism.
10. Emperor Trajan bans the practice of Judaism and forces all Jews within his empire to assimilate following the little-discussed Kitos War. Do Christians hurry to differentiate themselves from Jews and syncretize their religion more with Greco-Roman polytheism and/or Neoplatonism, or are they too forced to give up their faith?
1. A more outward looking Egypt, one that concerns itself with empire building not just in the Levant, but also Cyprus, Cilicia, Pamphylia, maybe even Greece and Libya, Tunisia, Algeria as well.
2. Alternate silks. The Europeans were making their own wild silks during Classical Antiquity... maybe this goes somewhere? Alternatively, I saw @Revachah I believe positing a West African kind of silk a few months back.
3. Moose Domestication in North America or Siberia.
4. A successful Franco-Mongol Alliance that is able to crush the Mamluks. What happens to Islam in the long term? Is it replaced with something more akin to the Baha'i Faith? Perhaps it disintegrates and becomes an ethnic religion practiced only by Arabs.
5. No Massacre of the Latins, which likely butterflies the 4th Crusade.
6. Cancelling the Gregorian Reforms. Simony remains the norm and priests are permitted to marry and have children in the Catholic Church. Perhaps the schism between Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism can be healed sooner?
7. Jesus becoming enveloped in Zealotry.
8. Jesus marrying and fathering children, perhaps fostering a different religious movement that can be syncretized more with some kind of Greco-Roman religion.
9. Siddhartha Gautama actually dies while he is starving himself during his bout with asceticism, resulting in an abortion of Buddhism.
10. Emperor Trajan bans the practice of Judaism and forces all Jews within his empire to assimilate following the little-discussed Kitos War. Do Christians hurry to differentiate themselves from Jews and syncretize their religion more with Greco-Roman polytheism and/or Neoplatonism, or are they too forced to give up their faith?
This makes me shed tears of joy. ^
As for some very underused PODs:
Different partition of the Frankish empire. The borders were pretty much arbitrary (only Lothaire getting northern Italy, so that he, as the eldest son, becomes the protector of Rome, was guaranteed). There are plenty of surviving Franks TLs, but I have yet to see one about a different treaty of Verdun. Depending on what the borders are like, European history could go in a wildly different direction. I guess rewriting medieval Europe's entire history is daunting, but it would definitely make for an interesting scenario.
A successful Illyrian movement. The Illyrian movement was a pan-Yugoslavist political movement centered in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. It sought to create a union of the South Slavs within the empire. The movement was dominated by Croats, and focused on Croatian cultural revival, but was accepting of other South Slavs and wanted to form a union with them on equal terms, using the common demonym of "Illyrians" so as not to assimilate any one group into another. They for the most part didn't necessarily want independence, just greater autonomy in the empire, more liberal governance, and the right to maintain their distinct south Slavic culture. Basically, the triune kingdom proposal with a cool twist. Due to the movement's obscurity, nobody really makes TLs abt it.
Khazaria lasting long enough to convert most of the greater steppe to Judaism so when the mongols come around and turn back they come back to Mongolia with practices they picked up there if they go through there
The US grabbing Taiwan due to Matthew perry
Russian selling Alaska to Lichtenstein
A independent rheinish state
The US grabbing Taiwan due to Matthew perry
Russian selling Alaska to Lichtenstein
A independent rheinish state
George Washington successfully defending New York in 1776 could have some very interesting effects on the Revolutionary War.
Domestication of Foxes could prove interesting
The directorate lasting longer in France
Bavaria playing a greater role in Germany
No French religious wars
The war of the triple alliance not being as bad for Paraguay
The directorate lasting longer in France
Bavaria playing a greater role in Germany
No French religious wars
The war of the triple alliance not being as bad for Paraguay
Another Revolutionary War POD that could be interesting is Benedict Arnold staying loyal to the Patriots.
Bassarion Korax
Banned
Some more ideas...
Balkanized China
Probably a lot more linguistic diversity in Southern China, with the Thai Migrations into Southeast Asia being butterflied, resulting in all likelihood in a largely Austroasiatic Southeast Asia. West China might also remain largely Indo-European. I imagine the secret of silk production also gets out sooner. We also might see a lot more religious conflict in China, more dynastic intermarriage with Koreans, Mongols, Indo-Europeans, and also whatever group ends up inheriting Japan, which could result in a dynamic similar to England and France in the Medieval Period.
Unified India
India behaves like China did IOTL, i.e. it considers itself the center of civilization and all authorities subservient to the Chakravartin. Strong assimilationist policy with the various Adivasi peoples, both linguistically and culturally. It also means that there is likely to be a high degree of Indianization of surrounding polities, which look to this United India in a similar way to how Northeast Asians looked to China as a bastion of civilization and culture. There will be foreign dynasties and relatively brief periods of disunity, but ultimately all Indians will come back under the rule of the Chakravartin at some point.
Freed Slaves Are Deported To Liberia
Say the Union Army adopts lever action rifles at the start of the war as opposed to waiting until after the war was over to give them a second look. The Union shows up the Confederacy pretty quickly and there is never any need to consider freeing the slaves in the middle of the war and thus there is no Emancipation Proclamation and no 14th Amendment. Following the war, freed Blacks are deported to Liberia. This would of course have massive and far-reaching consequences not only for politics within the United States, but internationally.
Sulla Loses At Chaeronea
As discussed in an earlier thread of mine, Sulla is defeated and killed at Chaeronea. Marius dies shortly thereafter, and Cinna inherits the Republic. Can the Romans muster the strength to take back Greece and Asia from Mithradates? Most of the forum seems to think yes, but I don’t really think so. At least not for a generation. Perhaps Julius Caesar distinguishes himself 20 years down the line as the consul who reclaims Greece, but by then Asia is probably long gone.
Indo-Aryan Iran
Both Iranians and Indo-Aryans seem to have interacted with the Bactria-Margiana Agricultural Complex, but the influence of this easy civilization had very different results in both groups. Let’s say the Iranians stay Central Asia while the Indo-Aryans proliferate throughout Iran and Northern Mesopotamia. What influence does Rigvedic Hinduism have on the surrounding religions? How is IT in turn influenced by them?
Balkanized China
Probably a lot more linguistic diversity in Southern China, with the Thai Migrations into Southeast Asia being butterflied, resulting in all likelihood in a largely Austroasiatic Southeast Asia. West China might also remain largely Indo-European. I imagine the secret of silk production also gets out sooner. We also might see a lot more religious conflict in China, more dynastic intermarriage with Koreans, Mongols, Indo-Europeans, and also whatever group ends up inheriting Japan, which could result in a dynamic similar to England and France in the Medieval Period.
Unified India
India behaves like China did IOTL, i.e. it considers itself the center of civilization and all authorities subservient to the Chakravartin. Strong assimilationist policy with the various Adivasi peoples, both linguistically and culturally. It also means that there is likely to be a high degree of Indianization of surrounding polities, which look to this United India in a similar way to how Northeast Asians looked to China as a bastion of civilization and culture. There will be foreign dynasties and relatively brief periods of disunity, but ultimately all Indians will come back under the rule of the Chakravartin at some point.
Freed Slaves Are Deported To Liberia
Say the Union Army adopts lever action rifles at the start of the war as opposed to waiting until after the war was over to give them a second look. The Union shows up the Confederacy pretty quickly and there is never any need to consider freeing the slaves in the middle of the war and thus there is no Emancipation Proclamation and no 14th Amendment. Following the war, freed Blacks are deported to Liberia. This would of course have massive and far-reaching consequences not only for politics within the United States, but internationally.
Sulla Loses At Chaeronea
As discussed in an earlier thread of mine, Sulla is defeated and killed at Chaeronea. Marius dies shortly thereafter, and Cinna inherits the Republic. Can the Romans muster the strength to take back Greece and Asia from Mithradates? Most of the forum seems to think yes, but I don’t really think so. At least not for a generation. Perhaps Julius Caesar distinguishes himself 20 years down the line as the consul who reclaims Greece, but by then Asia is probably long gone.
Indo-Aryan Iran
Both Iranians and Indo-Aryans seem to have interacted with the Bactria-Margiana Agricultural Complex, but the influence of this easy civilization had very different results in both groups. Let’s say the Iranians stay Central Asia while the Indo-Aryans proliferate throughout Iran and Northern Mesopotamia. What influence does Rigvedic Hinduism have on the surrounding religions? How is IT in turn influenced by them?
An idea I have is an alternate set of Cayagan battles leading to Japan opening itself earlier
Or alternatively the Japanese losing part of southern Japan to the Spanish after this happens
A greater Dutch victory in the Dutch Portuguese wars giving them access to Brazil and Africa much earlier
The rather libertine things view on things as mistresses and things like that during the regency era lasting for longer leading to an earlier sexual revolution.
Or alternatively the Japanese losing part of southern Japan to the Spanish after this happens
A greater Dutch victory in the Dutch Portuguese wars giving them access to Brazil and Africa much earlier
The rather libertine things view on things as mistresses and things like that during the regency era lasting for longer leading to an earlier sexual revolution.
Last edited:
No Japanese persecution of Christians. How would Japanese history change with a third major faith?
Ceaser dies during his triumphs (after the cival war but before he consolidated his grip on power, making this likely the last time to save the Roman republic before he digs his claws into the political structure.) He could have died in 2 out of his 4 triumphs. In one his chariot broke and he fell to the ground harshly this could have been his death with little modification. OTL the Romans, in this moment believed that the gods may have abandoned him and looked upon this perhaps as a man of his fall from favor. The other involved him celebrating the death of the opposing Roman faction in the final war (the legitimate government of the Republic) and he paraded a foreign king (less than 10 years old) in his triumph who was to ritually murdered as a part of the process. The Roman citizens watching reportedly were deeply unnerved by this and began to turn agents ceaser. He spared the boy after much pressure from the citizens but if he had not perhaps they would have turned agents him for exposing to the Roman world how much of a tyrant he truly was.
Last edited:
The Japanese allying with the Bruneians to boot off the Spanish in the Philippines to stop christianization, the Pirates were just in Luzon in the Cagayan battles.
Kaze
Banned
Robert Francois Damiens attempt succeed - enter Louis the Dauphin, delay or snuff out the revolution.
Marie Antoinette has a child early. If she had a child within a year of her marriage - her image might have been better - especially if that child is a male one, it might have saved her head because people started whispering "if she isn't sleeping with the king, who is she sleeping with?"
Battle of Vouillé. If the Visigoth kills Clovis - France and Spain might not exist as we know them.
Marie Antoinette has a child early. If she had a child within a year of her marriage - her image might have been better - especially if that child is a male one, it might have saved her head because people started whispering "if she isn't sleeping with the king, who is she sleeping with?"
Battle of Vouillé. If the Visigoth kills Clovis - France and Spain might not exist as we know them.
In 1893, Grover Cleveland was undergoing an operation to remove a cancerous tumor on the roof of his mouth. Because of the Panic of '93, this operation was kept secret. OTL he lived but WI he died. Obviously Adlai Stevenson (not the one who ran against Eisenhower, but his grandfather) would be president. Would he run in 1896? If he did who would be his running mate? Bryan? Would the Republicans still run McKinley? If not McKinley than who? Who would win? The Republicans like OTL or would the Democrats eke out a slim win?