An Age of Miracles III: The Romans Endure

i feel like even if rhomania creates some type of federation the RITE cant be a part of it due to the population, similar to the exclusion of India in a hypothetical Anglo Federation.
I don't even think that creating a Federation is a good idea. Egypt and Sicily (but especially Sicily) have got to be locked down in order to guarantee the safety of the heartland. It wouldn't be impossible for Sicily to get some Catholic benefactors that want to see it become independent, which would be a total disaster for the Byzzies. Egypt likely couldn't find a benefactor, but as the linchpin between RITE and Constantinople, it needs to stay subservient as well. Both of these things are musts for the state. A situation where BOTH of them have independent power (and therefore the ability to refuse Constantinople's demands) is unthinkable.

Not sure why not, the biggest issue with India was European style racism which isn't a thing in Rhomania. As for population, RITE will be less than or equal to western Rhomania, the population explosion is a post WWII development, unlike the Indian Raj being larger than the rest of the British Empire combined.
Idk about the exact demographics ITTL, but you ignore how democratically including India, even if you restrict the franchise, would effectively turn the Imperial Federation into the Indian Federation. This is probably a concern with Rhomania as well, they don't want to set up a situation where their former colonies can tell them what to do.

Federalizing is not impossible, but the "core" of the empire needs to all be on the same page. Meaning more Greeks and Orthodox Christians everywhere.
 
With regard to demographics, I agree with the view that Rhomania entering the modern day capital rich, land rich but labor poor would, in fact, be a great position to be in: basically OTL Japan, but with slightly less reliance on overseas imports for basic resources.

But there is one huge, huge difference that will serve Rhomania particularly well, and which I would liken with post-Soviet Russia's ability to mitigate its demographic decline through net-positive migratory flows with the central asian ex-soviet republics. Rhomania will have that but on steroids, even if you don't count the Despotates or RITE as part of Rhomania: Vlachia, Serbia, Georgia, Russia, Sicily, Coptic Egypt, all of RITE, and then outliers like Japan and Mexico would all have close cultural and/or religious ties to Rhomania, and thus all would be potential sources of migrants. And this would all be an issue after the emergence of restricted immigration even becomes a topic, which may take into the late 18th or early 19th centuries at least.
 

Cryostorm

Monthly Donor
Idk about the exact demographics ITTL, but you ignore how democratically including India, even if you restrict the franchise, would effectively turn the Imperial Federation into the Indian Federation. This is probably a concern with Rhomania as well, they don't want to set up a situation where their former colonies can tell them what to do.

Federalizing is not impossible, but the "core" of the empire needs to all be on the same page. Meaning more Greeks and Orthodox Christians everywhere.
That's what I am getting at though, the population disparity between western and eastern Rhomania is unlikely to be anywhere near what Anglo British Empire vs India was and is unlikely to ever be. At worst it would be little different than the effect RITE would have as full provinces of a centralized Rhomania.

If Rhomania doesn't want them to ever have influence over imperial policy then they may as well give them complete independence then.
 
That's what I am getting at though, the population disparity between western and eastern Rhomania is unlikely to be anywhere near what Anglo British Empire vs India was and is unlikely to ever be. At worst it would be little different than the effect RITE would have as full provinces of a centralized Rhomania.

If Rhomania doesn't want them to ever have influence over imperial policy then they may as well give them complete independence then.
No, the Romans don't have to make concessions like that at all. If the OTL Dutch can effectively own the whole of Indonesia until the 1940s, the Romans can do the same. They have no reason to give them influence in home affairs, and no reason to grant them further autonomy that would allow them to clash with strategic interests.
 

Cryostorm

Monthly Donor
No, the Romans don't have to make concessions like that at all. If the OTL Dutch can effectively own the whole of Indonesia until the 1940s, the Romans can do the same. They have no reason to give them influence in home affairs, and no reason to grant them further autonomy that would allow them to clash with strategic interests.
Do the Dutch still control Indonesia today? Because the idea is a way for Rhomania as a whole, both east and west, to be at least an actual federation, if not more intertwined, by modern day rather than a resource colony that is eventually lost because they are treated as colonial subjects to be drained instead of citizens of one of the oldest nations on earth.

Part of this story, at least from my perspective, is if the classical meaning of empire, that of slowly bringing provinces to be part of the core, occurs rather than the stupid resource extraction empires of the 19th century Europeans.
 
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Do the Dutch still control Indonesia today? Because the idea is a way for Rhomania as a whole, both east and west, to be at least an actual federation, if not more intertwined, by modern day rather than a resource colony that is eventually lost because they are treated as colonial subjects to be drained instead of citizens of one of the oldest nations on earth.

Part of this story, at least from my perspective, is if the classical meaning of empire, that of slowly bringing provinces to be part of the core, occurs rather than the stupid resource extraction empires of the 19th century Europeans.
Being a classical Empire can only go so far. The Romans can extend this view to areas of the world that were historically owned by them, but the whole point of RITE is a commercial enterprise for resources and I don't think any Romans view RITE as "integral" to their national identity the way controlling Egypt or Anatolia is.
 
No, the Romans don't have to make concessions like that at all. If the OTL Dutch can effectively own the whole of Indonesia until the 1940s, the Romans can do the same. They have no reason to give them influence in home affairs, and no reason to grant them further autonomy that would allow them to clash with strategic interests.
The narrative has repeatedly emphasized how the subjects of RITE identify as Rhomanian despite not being ethnically greek, and how the imperial government in the West tends to view them as "Orthodox and fluent enough in Greek" subjects, not dissimilar to some of the non-Greek Orthodox population of the Levant and Anatolia.
 
The narrative has repeatedly emphasized how the subjects of RITE identify as Rhomanian despite not being ethnically greek, and how the imperial government in the West tends to view them as "Orthodox and fluent enough in Greek" subjects, not dissimilar to some of the non-Greek Orthodox population of the Levant and Anatolia.
Well, we'll see what happens. But the subjects of RITE being on board with Roman identity and alright with Roman occupation is more of a reason for Constantinople to maintain the status quo, not treat RITE as integral to the Empire in something like a Federation.

Again, in order to do this the Romans need to fully and totally secure themselves in Sicily and Egypt. And probably work on the repopulation (I.E Hellenization) of Syria.
 

Cryostorm

Monthly Donor
The narrative has repeatedly emphasized how the subjects of RITE identify as Rhomanian despite not being ethnically greek, and how the imperial government in the West tends to view them as "Orthodox and fluent enough in Greek" subjects, not dissimilar to some of the non-Greek Orthodox population of the Levant and Anatolia.
Exactly, there is at least one entire chapter devoted to explaining Rhomania bigotry is with "civilizational/cultural" identifiers rather than ethnic so that someone from Japan or the Somali coast would be considered Rhoman if they spoke decent Greek, was literate, and publicly followed Orthodox Christianity, and professed loyalty to the emperor and empire. The whole point is that increasing numbers of people in the RITE view themselves as Romans and the bureaucracy and people of Rhomania largely agree with that assessment.
 
Well, we'll see what happens. But the subjects of RITE being on board with Roman identity and alright with Roman occupation is more of a reason for Constantinople to maintain the status quo, not treat RITE as integral to the Empire in something like a Federation.

Again, in order to do this the Romans need to fully and totally secure themselves in Sicily and Egypt. And probably work on the repopulation (I.E Hellenization) of Syria.
The Romans are already full secured in Sicily and Egypt, the perception that it isn't is a misreading of both the dynamics with the Despotates and their primary importance as political buffers with geopolitical actors the Romans are less capable of engaging with. There's a reason that the Tourmarches, on their march to squander Roman power and prestige in an ill-fated expedition based on a superficially astute but fundamentally flawed assessment of Rhomania's strategic position relative to its neighbors tend to reflect some of the more outwardly imperialistic posts in the thread.

If RITE is ever seen as integral to the Empire - not a given for the record - it is precisely because Constantinople shares the locals' assessment of their own Romanness. That its population is ethnically Malayan or Tamil doesn't seem to matter to them now, seeing how many Malayan or Tamil bureaucrats already a) study in the metropole and b) occupy posts within the civil and military administration.
Exactly, there is at least one entire chapter devoted to explaining Rhomania bigotry is with "civilizational/cultural" identifiers rather than ethnic so that someone from Japan or the Somali coast would be considered Rhoman if they spoke decent Greek, was literate, and publicly followed Orthodox Christianity, and professed loyalty to the emperor and empire. The whole point is that increasing numbers of people in the RITE view themselves as Romans and the bureaucracy and people of Rhomania largely agree with that assessment.
For all its faults, one of the few throughlines that this Rome seems to keep from the original Rome is that dynamic: can you understand the language of the Empire's administration? Do you profess the faith of the Empire? Are you loyal to the Emperor? Congratulations you are a citizen of Rome.
 
Ok a more jingoistic *US viewed from Constantinople would be *fascinating* and now I can't wait to see this.

Agreed, especially since Rhomania is probably the power least likely to clash with the US simply because of its position. It doesn't have an Atlantic coast and minimal possessions in the Western Hemisphere.

For that matter, it might be interesting to see how this "US" (in quotes because while it might be like the US I would be surprised if it gets called that - maybe alt-US?) views Rhomania, since the "US" is unlikely to have the history and rivalry the traditional Latin powers have had with Rhomania. Perhaps a vignette with a new "US" ambassador arriving in Constantinople to take up their duties?

I am looking forward to explore that, but these are ideas for the future. Right now, the Atlantic colonies in the territory of the OTL US have a combined population less than the city of Smyrna.

Rhomania, since it’s not an Atlantic power, is unlikely to be a direct rival of the US. They might get lumped into a vague category of ‘decadent Europeans’ or ‘inferior race-mixers’ but not specifically singled out. In fact, I’m picturing direct Roman-US clashes to be more likely in the Pacific, possibly over the TTL version of the Kingdom of Hawaii. Western Pacific powers, and Rhomania counts as one, would be keen to keep an expansionistic US from continuing to ‘follow the sun’, and Hawaii would be a good place to try and stop them. (Then if the Russians ITTL end up getting Kauai to help feed Alaska, as they tried to do IOTL, well things get very interesting.) [No promises; this is me spinning very rough ideas that won’t bear fruit for a while.]

I know you're planning for a "Eastern" Roman Empire to the Eastern Roman Empire in the east Indies which will probably have a similar relationship to the original like the wre and ere did post 395, very aligned and supportive of each other when necessary and convenient but ultimately more interested in themselves if push came to shove. However I do wonder how you plan to keep them aligned to each other bar cultural ties? Maybe both have the same emperor as head of state but there being local autonomous governments on ground like the British Empire and its dominions and more apt to the Romans Diocletian and his tetrachy with him as senior emperor. Or Valentinian or Theodosius. There's more than enough precedent in Roman history

I don’t have any specific plans or am committed to anything in particular yet, but I like the idea of Rhomania (East) being ruled by a cadet branch of the Imperial line, with the line in Constantinople being recognized as senior. Both are autonomous in their own affairs, but have a mutual defense pact, have significant cultural and scientific exchanges, cooperate on foreign initiatives of joint interest (last two words are a key qualifier), and possibly even free movement of people and goods.

Yeah, I'm surprised it took me so long to find the climatic explanations for Ottoman decline, but they sound pretty compelling. Now, on the other hand, Rhomania has some distinct advantages coming out of the Little Ice age compared to the Ottomans. Among them being western style financial institutions, a population more literate than that of the OTL Ottoman Empire in 1914, a higher degree of urbanization, and a relatively uniform and largely state administered taxation system rather than the tax-farming based gordian knot of pre Tanzimat Ottoman taxation.

Coming out of the little ice age, the Ottoman Empire was land rich, but labor scarce and capital poor. TTL Rhomania I'd expect will be land rich, labor scarce, and capital rich, which gives them a lot more to work with.

Yes, Rhomania does have advantages compared to the Ottomans. But then the plan is for them to keep being one of the great powers (just not the top) as opposed to the (very slow, it must be noted) decline into backwardness and weakness that the Ottomans underwent.

The thought of an Eastern (Eastern) Roman Empire in South East Asia is incredibly interesting.

You’d have to combine almost all of OTL ASEAN to reach Tier 2 so imagine a TTL Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesian Empire ruled from Singapore. With control of the most critical shopping lanes in the world (plus Roman TTL Suez) when cooperating they definitely could be a match for the Tiers 1s.

I’m picturing somewhat like that regarding final borders, give or take. But I am liking the idea of a Batavia/Jakarta equivalent being the capital, with the name being Constantinople Eschate.

An Eastern Eastern Roman Empire sounds cool, but if I were an imperial administrator or statesman I would be working around the clock to keep RITE as subservient as possible and NOT an independent power, even nominally.

Already the state has to deal with Sicily and Egypt not being totally in line with the Roman state, having their eastern possessions granted the ability to go AWOL if they wanted too sounds awful. You would effectively have the Greek core of the Empire pressed with keeping RITE, Egypt, AND Sicily in line. Recipe for disaster imo.

Agree. Go for imperial federation before colonies get really restless. Needs a loooot of forward thinking though, same as for brits.

That’s why the Roman administrative setup is still four Katepanates, with the Exarch-in-charge-of-everything setup being an emergency measure immediately canceled once the emergency was over.

But such a setup can only be sustained for so long. The natives will get restless if they feel they’re not treated as equals; people resent not being masters in the own homes. And a RITE that is deliberately kept too weak to effectively rebel will also be too weak to defend itself from opportunistic invaders.

I’m picturing the new West & East Empire system being set up for some similar reasons as the original. The enlarged structure is too unwieldly to be managed from one central location, with different priorities and problems. (I feel that while modern communications and transportation would mitigate this somewhat, but I don’t think they would resolve the issue entirely. Rhomania-West is not going to think getting into an argument with China over some tiny specks between Fujian and Luzon to be a good use of time and energy; Rhomania-East is going to think rather differently about such an affair.)

I consider such kind of decoupling inevitable, even if Rhomania-East identifies as Romans and is recognized as such by Rhomania-West. Geography, the sheer space between the two, and the different interests and concerns it poses, will see to that. No empire is eternal.

Such decoupling can be managed gracefully, or not.

Russia has another advantage of the Tsar's direct control over the eastern territories. He has a direct state in their development because he doesn't have to go through the legislature there. Did the russians include a clause or something about renegotiating the power of the Tsar once they effectively run out of land? I remember that part of the deal was once the Tsar's territories have a high enough population/development level, they would become their own federal state and have representatives. This would take a lot of power away from the Tsar, so I wonder how that conversation is going to go. I get the "to be Russian is to be free" but I could see the legislature granting more power to the Tsar given how seemingly well the separation of powers worked, with the Tsar not overstepping his boundaries.

This isn’t something I’ve worked out yet. There’s no clause about renegotiating the Tsar’s position. Their view on land is similar to that of the US throughout its history (there’s always more of it out there). That’s wrong, but Siberia is very big, especially with 1600s tech. However, this does mean the Tsar will likely be a big advocate of continued expansion, which is one way to get my sustained and developed Russian Alaska.
 
I’ve argued before and I’ll do so again; the best case scenario for Rome in regards to Sicily is that it becomes truly neutral in a similar vein of Switzerland in OTL.

There are no critical resources that Sicily can provide Rome that it can’t get elsewhere; the economy will always be relatively constrained until a post industrial age as there are no resources necessary for industrialization; and the army/navy that Sicily can raise will never be enough to both defend their homeland AND send large expeditions abroad to help Rome. A Sicily that is fully integrated into Rome or remains as a despotate within the Roman sphere is a net drain on Rome compared to what a neutral Sicily could provide.

A neutral Sicily provides the following:

1) It locks out all other powers from the Mediterranean east of the Tunis-Sicily-Boot simply by existing and stating that violating it would bring their neutrality into question.

2) By being the neutral go between for the Orthodox and Latin world it can leverage those contacts into a strong service based economy which would help the entire Mediterranean basin with increased trade/shipping/tourism

3) It keeps acting as a Western shield for Rome but without the obligations to defense and finances that exist as a Despotate.

A neutral Sicily is better for Rome than a Roman aligned Sicily unless the goal is to pain the map purple. Egypt on the other hand must remain more tightly bound especially if/when a Suez equivalent is constructed.
 
Rhomania's General Crisis, Part 9.0: Fish, an Egg, and a Revolution
Rhomania’s General Crisis, part 9.0-Fish, an Egg, and a Revolution:

While Romans and Persians massacre each other, again, in the sands of Mesopotamia, the volcanoes begin going off to the west. Although the period is called the Little Ice Age, that terminology describes general climatic trends. In local terms the reality translates to more extreme weather [1] and the summer of 1661 throughout the Mediterranean basin is hot and bone dry. Harvests are expected to be bad and reserves are already depleted.

On July 16, the civic government of Naples orders the bakers of the city to decrease the size of the standard loaf of bread by 25%, although the cost stays the same. This transparent effort to hide an increase in the price of bread fools no one and an angry bread riot breaks out the next day. The situation gets rough, shots are fired, and three people are killed and twenty-one injured, including three children.

The mood in the overcrowded tenements of the city is ugly. Still, the next morning, July 18, begins as normal, with the people of Naples out in throngs on the streets. In the fish market, a prosperous fishmonger named Masaniello begins haranguing the crowds, his fiery rhetoric quickly gathering audience from the shoppers. There is clearly some stage-management at work because once the crowd is gathered, a six-year-old girl is produced. She would’ve been a beautiful child, and was one yesterday, before she was mutilated by slashing cavalry sabers in the bread riot.

The crowd erupts, and with the kindling from the events of the last two days, the fire spreads rapidly. The riot is much bigger, its sheer size paralyzing the authorities who are afraid of the backlash if they resort to force again. It is also much more sustained, with disturbances continuing to grip the city over the next several days, bringing city life to a standstill. Crowds surround important sites of authority, such as the town hall, the Castel dell’Ovo, and the customs house in the port, loudly demanding reforms, although they do not attack. That might not hold though, since the ranks of the city folk are being swelled by outsiders from the countryside.

On July 23 the civil authorities cave in and agree to several demands from Masaniello. The size of bread is restored to its normal status and the government pledges to maintain granaries at a certain level at its own expense, to ensure that there will be no more price hikes, whether covert or overt. Several other taxes on foodstuffs, such as a particularly despised one on fruit, are also abolished. Various officials are dismissed with Masaniello deciding their replacements, while the officer responsible for firing on the crowd on July 17 is to be handed over for punishment. This last clause does not happen as he goes into hiding.

The replacement of certain officials is a key provision, showing that there is more to this uprising than just anger over some taxes. Civic institutions in Naples are overwhelmingly dominated by the upper class and this change of office-holders resulted in several commoners getting positions. Also, laws are passed that civic assemblies and offices are to be evenly split between nobility and commoners. Masaniello is also appointed as ‘Captain-General and Defender of the People’ with authority to equip and command a civic guard. This is to ensure that the reforms are maintained and enforced.

It is possible things might have calmed down after these concessions, with much noise but little violence, had the civic authorities of Naples been negotiating in good faith. But they are not. That is why they’re willing to make such concessions; they view them as a temporary expedient to buy time. Frantic appeals have been sent to Messina, pleading for the dispatch of an expedition to give them overwhelmingly military superiority, at which point they will crush Masaniello and his adherents. The Despotate government agrees with the plan and begins mustering the material for the expedition.

Of course, news like this cannot be kept secret. To prevent themselves from being torn to pieces by an outraged mob, the old civic authorities and the garrison forces opposed to Masaniello and his adherents retreat to the Castel dell’Ovo, the Castel Nuovo, and the port customs house. The latter is not a castle, but is stoutly built and able to resist an attack, provided said attacker only has small arms.

This is a good tactic for staying alive, but it also has the effect of delivering the city of Naples almost entirely into the hands of the insurgents, who are once again in full rebellion. After the promised reforms, they’d been willing to work with the authorities, but their treachery pushes the Neapolitan masses back into insurrection, and this time their demands are more extreme. Now many argue for declaring the secession of Naples from the Despotate, proclaiming a Catholic republic under the sovereignty of the Pope. This happens to be the first time that the matter of religion actually enters into the debate.

But in the current situation, such dreams would likely not be translated into reality. With the old guard in control of those three key points, Naples has no seaside defense, making it extremely vulnerable to the naval expedition mustering in Messina. Masaniello has his new civic guard blockade the strong points, but they are hopelessly ill-equipped and experienced to conduct a proper siege. An effort to build a catapult (because they have no cannons) ends disastrously (or hilariously, depending on one’s perspective) when the machine smashes itself to pieces when used for the first time. It is unlikely they’ll be given enough time to improve their game.

Thus far, it has overwhelmingly just been the city of Naples that has risen. Now the countryside of Campania enters the list. On July 29, the Duke of Maddaloni, Simone Galamini, enters the city with a private army. Said army is rather small but it is well-equipped and experienced, with a heavy seasoning of veterans from the War of the Roman Succession.

Galamini’s motivations for getting involved are complex and varied. He has no interest in the taxes that were the ultimate spark; he is too wealthy to be concerned about such details. He certainly has no sympathy for the reform measures that restrict noble membership in the civic institutions of Naples, and he views the majority of the Neapolitans as rabble and Masaniello himself as a demagogue, admittedly a very persuasive one.

During the War of the Roman Succession, the Duke served with distinction, his cavalry troop capturing two Lombard batteries in one engagement. In another his right hand was badly mangled and he has never managed to regain full use of it. But he feels ill-rewarded for his pains and resents it. He had expected to be granted the title and associated estates of Prince of Squillace but those had gone to another candidate.

That candidate had served in the war as well, but his military exploits were less impressive than Maddaloni’s. However, he was Orthodox, while Maddaloni was a devout Catholic, from a family with a long history of faithful Catholicism and a willingness to show it in public bequests. The Duke credits his loss to religious discrimination, which is unproven but a reasonable suspicion. Orthodox and Catholics are supposed to not be favored or disfavored vis-à-vis each other for offices, but the spirit of religious egalitarianism that prevailed at the end of the Time of Troubles, after the common struggle against rapacious Lombard domination, has faded. The Despotic court is Orthodox, and while not openly discriminating against Catholics, does have a bias.

It is possible that Galamini is seeking revenge for his perceived slights, or deciding to cause enough of a mess to get compensation to make him back down. It is also possible that at this point his ambitions are already higher. If he can’t be Prince of Squillace, reviving the title ‘King of Naples’ would more than make up for it. This talk of a Republic would cramp that, especially if it continues this unpalatable trend of limiting the nobility in favor of commoners. But even so, ‘Lord Protector of Naples and Champion of the Pope’ does have a nice ring to it.

Masaniello, for his part, is also wary of Galamini. The fishmonger has condemned rapacious and cruel grandees and landlords, much to the delight of the urban masses of Naples who have suffered repeatedly at their hands. And Galamini is the greatest of Campania’s rural grandees. But right now, both also recognize that they need each other.

The key task is to gain complete control of Naples. Galamini brings his men up against the Castel dell’Ovo first. While he has some artillery and men with siege experience, his forces here are still limited, but he has his military reputation. The castle commandant is well aware of that reputation, having served with Galamini in Tuscany during the war, and the Duke is able to bluff the commandant that the Duke is far better armed than he really is. The castle surrenders.

Now the Duke turns to the customs house, which is an easier sell. The structure is proof against musketry, but not against even light artillery. The defenders surrender.

That leaves only the Castel Nuovo, where the old town leadership is ensconced. The initial demands for surrender are refused and Galamini replies with a bombardment, his guns reinforced by guns from the Castel dell’Ovo. The following artillery duel leaves much of the neighborhood as a wreck, lasting for a week.

After that week, the occupants of the castle are getting nervous. There is no sign of the expedition and no indication of when it will arrive. Unbeknownst to them, the expedition put out from Messina but storms drove it in the direction of Sardinia. The fleet regrouped in Palermo but contrary winds have stalled its progress towards Naples.

The castle occupants send envoys to Galamini and offer to surrender if no relief arrives within another week. The Duke isn’t enamored of the offer. He is worried that the expedition will arrive within that window, in which case the Sicilians will have a lodgment in Naples. He has damaged the castle enough that a storming might succeed, but he doesn’t trust the rabble of Naples to have the stomach for such brutal work. He would have to use his own men, who would likely take heavy losses, weakening the Duke’s position. Furthermore, he’d like to not wreck the Castel Nuovo any more than he already has; he needs it for the coastal defense of Naples.

Galamini agrees to the terms, and it turns out he need not have worried about the fleet spoiling things. On the deadline of August 16, there is still no sign of it. The Castel is surrendered as promised, the occupants being taken into custody by Galamini. This is a tremendous victory for the Neapolitans, but also a source of strife. Many of Masaniello’s followers want to make an example of the occupants but Galamini has given his word to protect them. Angry and loud words are exchanged, but fortunately for everyone involved, nothing more at this point.

On August 24, the Sicilian fleet finally arrives. It is in poor shape. The expedition had not been heavily supplied originally, due to the desire to expedite the launch, and the long delays have eaten up most of the victuals. (The enforced layover in Palermo did not allow for much replenishment, as the city’s own stores were low.) Confinement on board crowded troop ships has led to disease outbreaks on several vessels as well.

Furthermore, the officers of the fleet had expected to find the port of Naples to still be open to them, as they had expected the Neapolitans to be unable to force the castles. The addition of Galamini to the rebel cause and the loss of the port demoralizes them. Thus, the attack on Naples is pressed only half-heartedly, with the battered and only partly-repaired seaside defenses of Naples beating them off after a few hours, although the fleet takes little material damage.

The Sicilian fleet retires, regrouping around some of the islands in the Bay of Naples, which are still under Despotic control, imposing a loose blockade. Meanwhile Naples runs wild in celebration, with the animosity of Masaniello’s and Galamini’s factions temporarily occulted by the glow of victory. And the news of these events spreads.

[1] OTL.
 
Yes, Rhomania does have advantages compared to the Ottomans. But then the plan is for them to keep being one of the great powers (just not the top) as opposed to the (very slow, it must be noted) decline into backwardness and weakness that the Ottomans underwent.
Control of most of the natural gas/oil in the Persian gulf alone should be enough to secure Ottoman status in the great power club, especially if their institutions keep up with the West.

The outcome of this final Roman Persia war should have long reaching consequences….will Constantinople be locked out of all the east oil/gas sources?

And the news of these events spreads.
Understand that orthodox are overrepresented in Government, but does that apply to the Sicilian Military? Could make the difference between a painful revolt or civil war vs an existential threat.
 

Cryostorm

Monthly Donor
The outcome of this final Roman Persia war should have long reaching consequences….will Constantinople be locked out of all the east oil/gas sources?
Unless they lose Syria and Northern Mesopotamia they will have a decent national reserve. Not to mention Anatolia and the Balkans has some reserves, though most found post WWII, along with Egypt, Libya, particularly Cyrenaica, and the RITE. They will certainly not have the near print money amount of shear oil wealth the current Persian empire, They would currently have over 40% of known reserves, especially in 1870-1920 access, but will certainly have enough to be a major exporter by modern day.
 
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Cryostorm

Monthly Donor
Which actually gets me thinking, between Persia, Rhomania, and Mexico, especially if it holds Venezuela and all of its OTL North American territory, they would essentially control between two-thirds and three quarters of all petroleum production. Add in Russia and Vlachia and oof, OPEC could only dream of that power.
 
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The Sicilian fleet retires, regrouping around some of the islands in the Bay of Naples, which are still under Despotic control, imposing a loose blockade. Meanwhile Naples runs wild in celebration, with the animosity of Masaniello’s and Galamini’s factions temporarily occulted by the glow of victory. And the news of these events spreads.
Looking forward to seeing just how the Tourmaches react to this mess.
 
Well, we'll see what happens. But the subjects of RITE being on board with Roman identity and alright with Roman occupation is more of a reason for Constantinople to maintain the status quo, not treat RITE as integral to the Empire in something like a Federation.

Again, in order to do this the Romans need to fully and totally secure themselves in Sicily and Egypt. And probably work on the repopulation (I.E Hellenization) of Syria.
I disagree with (I think) all of your posts on this. Why would you root for Imperial core to keep colonies subservient and poor, then leaving and leaving a much weaker state in modern times?

The number 1 reason for Roman empire being THE ROMAN EMPIRE is integration, and you want to cut it completely out in favor of temporary greek colonial dominance?
 
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Interesting development if Sicily. I was about to say "what a nice opportunity for Constantinople to reassert authority and grant some rights and help to disgruntled masses (after the rebellion topples despot)", but I forgot Messina is center of power, not Naples. So the standing government supported by Constantinople remains in place, but a large part of mainland is in rebellion? Since Rome controls city of Rome I guess they can't just cut losses and leave Naples to itself, thus increasing percentage of orthodoxy in despotate.
 
Masaniello eh? We have the proper music ready for the revolution it seems from the Mute of the Portici. Amour Sacre de la Patrie...

 
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