Okay, so if you're an American with a slightly-more-than-passing knowledge of American History, you'll know that New York used to be a Dutch-owned city known as New Amsterdam. What you might not know is that it was part of an at least somewhat larger colony known as New Nederland. Of course, this New World empire didn't last very long, but what if it did?

Your goal is to wank New Nederland to be as successful as possible without it being ASB. I'd love to say more about this but it's literally midnight and I'm tired as fuck (and tend to get kind of deranged when I'm tired), so I guess I'll make a shitty r/ComedyHeaven tier "joke" about the Dutch language instead: The Dutch language is like German but weird. That's why the Netherlands is so fucking awesome. Clap please.
 
If the pod is after the first settlement of New Netherland; than there has to be something that makes it IMMENSELY more profitable.

The Dutch gave it away to keep Suriname(Dutch Guyana). Sugar>fur.

Either that or have the Dutch-Anglo wars go different. It’d be very interesting to see how British North America develops without the entirety of the Eastern Seaboard connected under its suzerainty.
 
POD should be the Treaty of Breda 1667 which ended the 2nd Anglo-Dutch War. The Dutch had come out on top by destroying most of the English fleet on the River Medway. The English commissioners actually offered to return New Netherland (occupied by England in 1664) if they could have Surinam (taken by the Dutch). Of course a tropical plantation colony was always going to be much more valuable than a settler colony where the main trade appeared to be with the natives for beaver pelts, and the Dutch refused. But supposing they had had an attack of stupidity, and accepted? [Can't you just see Denzil Holles and the other English commissioners congratulating themselves for having put one over on the Dutch? England had lost the war but won the peace!] Perhaps the Dutch East Indian Company adopt this as a way to hurt their rivals in the West India Company?

I then assume that the Dutch would hold New Netherland during the third Anglo-Dutch War in the 1670s. In OTL they actually reconquered and held it until the Treaty of Westminster in 1674 restored the status quo.(This treaty is another possible POD.) In 1680s England and the United Provinces are allied, and from 1688 the Dutch prince William is King of England, so New Netherland should not be at risk. The Dutch should retain it at least until 1720; probably safe until 1780 when there's another war with Great Britain. That's 150-160 years after the colony was first founded.

I recognise that the United Provinces don't have the capacity to pump large numbers of immigrants into New Netherland. They don't have the population and there isn't really the driver of rural poverty, so most increase will be through internal growth. But I assume there will be a continuing trickle of people from the Netherlands going there after 1667. However because of the Dutch reputation for religious tolerance, I do think the colony will prove attractive for Huguenots after 1685. Perhaps the majority of those who went to the Cape in OTL will emigrate to New Netherland, leading to many family names like du Toit, du Plessis, Joubert and Retief. For similar reasons dissident German religious groups like the Amish, Mennonites, Hutterites etc will also find it an attractive venue. And some English dissenters will also go there, as indeed happened before 1664.

So what will New Netherland be like in 1720 or 1780? And the big question: what is the effect on British North America when the New England colonies remain physically separated from the southern plantation colonies by an alien wedge of territory - roughly most of New York and New Jersey? Do they evolve much more separately, with much less common feeling than in OTL? Where does William Penn establish his colony? Is the ARW butterflied away? And would the Haudenosaunee Conferederation have a slim chance of surviving longer, as a sort of buffer state? All very interesting!
 
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What abouth the spanish invading holland, and this somehow causing a diaspora, the dutch east compagny becoming big at the time Europe forbids them to settle in south africa and basicly forces them towards northern america away from the spice trades The thirteen colonies grew from roughly 2000 to 2,4 million in & 100 years starting 1625 so their where busniss opprtunities yust have some north (low) german protestants and some belgians join them to get to the numbers and have the brits have a higher focus on the Southern states
 
POD should be the Treaty of Breda 1667 which ended the 2nd Anglo-Dutch War.
I would say that the POD should be earlier. As people have said Surinam is simply a lot more valuable than the New Netherlands. It makes perfect sense for the Dutch to tradeaway the New Netherlands for Surinam. So you have to increase the value of the New Netherlands. Which hard, at least in the monetary way. But there are other ways. For example if the New Netherlands was actualy part of the Netherlands instead of the WIC. For example I doubt that the Dutch Republic would have exchanged Gerlderland for Surinam, or even Drenthe or (Dutch) Brabant. So if we can make the New Netherlands more integrated into the Dutch Republic, that might work. Lets say not a full province, but something like Drenthe, with its own Estate/parliament, autonomy and quite a lot of influence within the Estate-General. Maybe the Dutch West-Indies are ruled from New Amsterdam (since it is closer than actual Amsterdam). That would increase the value of the New Netherlands.Also it would mean more investment in New Amsterdam, like better defenses and protection against the English. Not sure how to do it. You need to remove New Amsterdam from the WIC as soon as possible and maybe delay or prevent the Second-Anglo Dutch war.

Or maybe simply a different second Anglo-Dutch war in which the manage to hold New Amsterdam and did not conquer Surinam.

If we have a low amount of butterflies for the rest of the 17th century, I think the Dutch can defend the New Netherlands from Britain in the third Anglo-Dutch war, since they managed to recapture it OTL. And after the Glorious revolution the Dutch and English will be allies for almost a century, so there is no threat from the English. That said with the English colonies split, North American history will be very different.
 
However because of the Dutch reputation for religious tolerance, I do think the colony will prove attractive for Huguenots after 1685. Perhaps the majority of those who went to the Cape in OTL will emigrate to New Netherland, leading to many family names like du Toit, du Plessis, Joubert and Retief.

Actually, Huguenots did settle in New Netherland, especially in the Hudson Valley. I'm most familiar with the settlement that is now New Paltz, New York; where the historical district is named Huguenot street named after you can guess who. IIRC the Huguenots were actually from what we call Belgium today as well as from some other areas of France. New Netherland and later New York has always been very cosmopolitan in nature.
 
Actually, Huguenots did settle in New Netherland, especially in the Hudson Valley. I'm most familiar with the settlement that is now New Paltz, New York; where the historical district is named Huguenot street named after you can guess who. IIRC the Huguenots were actually from what we call Belgium today as well as from some other areas of France. New Netherland and later New York has always been very cosmopolitan in nature.

That's verey interesting, but of course in TTL their descendants will become Dutch speaking (as at the Cape) rather than English speaking.
 
For example if the New Netherlands was actualy part of the Netherlands instead of the WIC. For example I doubt that the Dutch Republic would have exchanged Gerlderland for Surinam, or even Drenthe or (Dutch) Brabant. So if we can make the New Netherlands more integrated into the Dutch Republic, that might work. Lets say not a full province, but something like Drenthe, with its own Estate/parliament, autonomy and quite a lot of influence within the Estate-General. Maybe the Dutch West-Indies are ruled from New Amsterdam (since it is closer than actual Amsterdam). That would increase the value of the New Netherlands.Also it would mean more investment in New Amsterdam, like better defenses and protection against the English. Not sure how to do it. You need to remove New Amsterdam from the WIC as soon as possible and maybe delay or prevent the Second-Anglo Dutch war.

This is very difficult to achieve. AIUI all Dutch colonies were company colonies; they didn't have any 'state' or 'crown' colonies until after the Napoleonic Wars. And to increase the colony's inflence at home you would need a much larger population. How? Maybe a lot of the personel from dutch Brazil move there when the Portuguese reconquer it?

But a slightly different 2nd Anglo-Dutch War should be possible. The Dutch could win more decisively, burning Chatham Dockyard as well as destroying the English fleet, and are in a position to demand the return of New Netherland as well as retaining Surinam.

In fact New Netherland ought to have been defendable. Stuyvesant seems to have been a proactive and effective governor, more so than his predecessors; he would have defended the colony if he could have, but he was badly let down by the Company.
 
I would put the POD as early as possible; maybe some German Protestants fleeing the 30yw get settled in new Netherlands?
 
A larger Netherlands might also do the trick, one that extends farther south down to Brussel/Luxemburg/Keulen/Dusseldorp, farther west to Dunkirk, and farther east over to Bremen. With a larger population I think that the Netherlands might prioritise settler colonies over trading stations.
 
The trouble with a very early POD is that you risk ending up, not with New Netherland, but with something else entirely. IMO we have to work with what we have, the colony that actually existed from the 1620s to 1664. You could push back actual settlement by about five years or so, but no more. The challenges are a) to increase the settler population (substantially?) and b) to stop the colony permanently falling into English hands.

Say Peter Minuit is not dismissed by the Company and never offers his services to the Swedes? But having no New Sweden doesn't automatically mean more Dutch settlement.

Say the Patroon system was more successful? This attempt to introduce a semi-feudal manorial system produced one successful manor at Rensselaerswijck; the rest were failures. But supposing there were at least half a dozen successful, or at any rate long lasting patroonships, with a couple on the South River (Delaware) as well as others in the Hudson Valley. This could lead to more agricultural development in the colony, but could also store up trouble for the future, if the patroons come into conflict with the colony's Governors, as Rensselaerswijck shows.

So assuming a slightly larger colony that survives beyond Breda, what does 'Dutch North America' look like in the 18th century?
 
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