AHC: Paleoconservative US President (1988 to 2008)

With no PoDs prior to 1975, how can somebody be elected to the Presidency on a platform drawn from Paleoconservatism or, failing that, rise to the presidency by way of the vice-presidency? Yes, said somebody is probably going to be Pat Buchanan, but I am curious if someone else could qualify.

Please note: This is an AH discussion. Anyone looking to debate the meaning of the ideological term in question, and how it may or may not differ from OTL present day political movements, please direct your comments here (linked thread is in Chat). Thank you.
 
(1 ) Kerry wins in 2004.

(2) Resentment of the way the Bushes twice led the GOP to defeat (in 1992 and 2004) leads the party to nominate Donald Trump against divided "Establishment" opposition. He is considered to have little chance to win until

(3) The financial collapse happens on schedule.
 
It's only tangentially relevant, but I had an idea for a timeline where Reagan gets removed from office over Iran-Contra, a weakened Bush is unable to govern, and barely fends off a primary challenge from Donald Trump in 1988 before losing to Gary Hart in the general. Hart also proves ineffectual and scandal-prone, and Norman Podhoretz gets elected in 1992 on a quasi-Trumpist platform. It doesn't end well.
 
It's only tangentially relevant, but I had an idea for a timeline where Reagan gets removed from office over Iran-Contra, a weakened Bush is unable to govern, and barely fends off a primary challenge from Donald Trump in 1988 before losing to Gary Hart in the general. Hart also proves ineffectual and scandal-prone, and Norman Podhoretz gets elected in 1992 on a quasi-Trumpist platform. It doesn't end well.
Can you provide any further details about this idea? It sounds interesting.
 
Can you provide any further details about this idea? It sounds interesting.

Well, it's premised on a couple ideas. First, that there's a vicious cycle between Republican radicalism and Republican success - the more persecuted they feel, the more effective they become, and the more persecuted they feel, the more persecution they perceive from the left. Second, that Trump in 2016 reminded me a lot of early Italian fascist Gabrielle D'Annuzio, particularly with his lack of ideological mooring and incorporation of performance art into politics. So, I wanted to do something that would put him in that role more directly, with a Mussolini figure taking his ideas and using them to guide the state. As a journalist who used to be a Democrat, Podhoretz fits Mussolini's background as well as any contemporary American. Lastly, that the less democratic government actions seem, the more helpless voters feel about it, so removal of Presidents from office for reasons other than election defeat or retirement seem illegitimate, no matter how grounded they are in the letter of the law.

All of that would come together horrifically in a situation where, sometime in 85-86, some smoking gun surrounding Iran and the Contras gets exposed. I don't think Reagan would be impeached - any thorough investigation into him at that time would likely reveal his dementia, which would be used as an excuse for him to step down and retain some modicum of dignity. However, the success would galvanize Congressional Democrats, who would make life difficult for Bush, particularly with his shady CIA background. It'd be pretty easy for them to then win back the White House in 88, particularly with Trump being Trump, attacking weakness and moral relativism in both parties and weakening the Republican brand even further. Meanwhile, Republicans are outraged, since between Nixon, Reagan, and Bush, this makes 3 of their last 4 Presidents removed from office through means they find illegitimate. They become increasingly disenchanted with due process and the rule of law, seeing these as barriers to the ultimate expression of the will of the people.

Enter Norman Podhoretz, who turned on the left over Vietnam and other 60's excesses of the New Left (as he saw it). During the 80's he was critical of Reagan for not being tough enough on the Soviets, and, like most neocons, despises moral relativism as sapping America's will to fight evil abroad. This is why I said this was only tangentially related, since he's clearly a neocon and not a paleocon, but those aren't necessarily an ocean apart, except on foreign policy. Anyways, he campaigns by railing against the fecklessness and weakness of the Democrats, and even those Republicans who went along with the Iran-Contra investigation, and with Watergate, as false conservatives who looked the other way while evil triumphed. That gets him into office with an implicit mandate from the party to do whatever's necessary to crush the country's foes. From there, democracy withers.
 
Well, it's premised on a couple ideas. First, that there's a vicious cycle between Republican radicalism and Republican success - the more persecuted they feel, the more effective they become, and the more persecuted they feel, the more persecution they perceive from the left. Second, that Trump in 2016 reminded me a lot of early Italian fascist Gabrielle D'Annuzio, particularly with his lack of ideological mooring and incorporation of performance art into politics. So, I wanted to do something that would put him in that role more directly, with a Mussolini figure taking his ideas and using them to guide the state. As a journalist who used to be a Democrat, Podhoretz fits Mussolini's background as well as any contemporary American. Lastly, that the less democratic government actions seem, the more helpless voters feel about it, so removal of Presidents from office for reasons other than election defeat or retirement seem illegitimate, no matter how grounded they are in the letter of the law.

All of that would come together horrifically in a situation where, sometime in 85-86, some smoking gun surrounding Iran and the Contras gets exposed. I don't think Reagan would be impeached - any thorough investigation into him at that time would likely reveal his dementia, which would be used as an excuse for him to step down and retain some modicum of dignity. However, the success would galvanize Congressional Democrats, who would make life difficult for Bush, particularly with his shady CIA background. It'd be pretty easy for them to then win back the White House in 88, particularly with Trump being Trump, attacking weakness and moral relativism in both parties and weakening the Republican brand even further. Meanwhile, Republicans are outraged, since between Nixon, Reagan, and Bush, this makes 3 of their last 4 Presidents removed from office through means they find illegitimate. They become increasingly disenchanted with due process and the rule of law, seeing these as barriers to the ultimate expression of the will of the people.

Enter Norman Podhoretz, who turned on the left over Vietnam and other 60's excesses of the New Left (as he saw it). During the 80's he was critical of Reagan for not being tough enough on the Soviets, and, like most neocons, despises moral relativism as sapping America's will to fight evil abroad. This is why I said this was only tangentially related, since he's clearly a neocon and not a paleocon, but those aren't necessarily an ocean apart, except on foreign policy. Anyways, he campaigns by railing against the fecklessness and weakness of the Democrats, and even those Republicans who went along with the Iran-Contra investigation, and with Watergate, as false conservatives who looked the other way while evil triumphed. That gets him into office with an implicit mandate from the party to do whatever's necessary to crush the country's foes. From there, democracy withers.
Does Podhoretz eventually get ousted somehow or does America go full-on dictatorial?
 
Does Podhoretz eventually get ousted somehow or does America go full-on dictatorial?

I was kind of thinking dystopia, where he stays on for a while, and the USSR hardliners take down Gorbachev, but to be totally honest, I don't think either arrangement could last forever. For All Time and Rumsfeldia and the rest make permanent dystopia too easy, in my estimation. The real danger is what happens when responsibilities shift from Norman's generation to that of his son's, which, as I explained in the original thread, had a lot less perspective, and were a lot more uncritically accepting of conservative dogma. If John and William win out, then there's trouble for a long time ahead, if not, things will sort themselves out by 2004 or so, maybe.
 
It's only tangentially relevant, but I had an idea for a timeline where Reagan gets removed from office over Iran-Contra, a weakened Bush is unable to govern, and barely fends off a primary challenge from Donald Trump in 1988 before losing to Gary Hart in the general. Hart also proves ineffectual and scandal-prone, and Norman Podhoretz gets elected in 1992 on a quasi-Trumpist platform. It doesn't end well.

Podhoretz isn't a paleocon, he's a neocon. A quick skim of his Wikipedia page shows that he supported the invasion of Iraq and supports an attack on Iran - both positions that are antithetical to paleoconservativism and its isolationism.
 
Podhoretz isn't a paleocon, he's a neocon. A quick skim of his Wikipedia page shows that he supported the invasion of Iraq and supports an attack on Iran - both positions that are antithetical to paleoconservativism and its isolationism.

I said that, and said that that was exactly why this is a tangent. The reason I brought it up was the idea of him borrowing some of Trump's ideas, a lot of which go surprisingly far back for a guy with no principles, and combining those into a gestalt form of American fascism. And as I explained in some detail in the original Chat thread, it would be a lot easier to reconcile Norman's more Burkean brand of neoconservatism than the more homogenously movement conservative ideology we have today.
 
1. Clinton wins in 1992 and goes to war with North Korea in 1994. The war goes badly and becomes unpopular. Isolation takes root in the Republican party, Pat Buchanan emerges as the Republican nominee and narrowly defeats Clinton in 1996.

2.
(1 ) Kerry wins in 2004.

(2) Resentment of the way the Bushes twice led the GOP to defeat (in 1992 and 2004) leads the party to nominate Donald Trump against divided "Establishment" opposition. He is considered to have little chance to win until

(3) The financial collapse happens on schedule.

This, and this could also be achieved by Gore winning in 2000 and getting re elected in 2004.
 
(1 ) Kerry wins in 2004.

(2) Resentment of the way the Bushes twice led the GOP to defeat (in 1992 and 2004) leads the party to nominate Donald Trump against divided "Establishment" opposition. He is considered to have little chance to win until

(3) The financial collapse happens on schedule.
Sounds more like a Ron Paul TL imho and that also would fit the Paleo-Con bill.
 
Oh, right, and as regards Trump himself, I kind of laid out a track for him to become President around 2000-2004, after Republicans impeach Clinton, and then take things even further by attempting to impeach Gore, and causing partisan warfare to skyrocket. Thread is here.
 
I remember coming across an idea for a second Korean war going hot under Clinton, perhaps due to talks breaking down and him deciding to take preventive measures which spiral out of control making an anti-war right-wing movement popular in the US, leading to Pat Buchanan being a surprise success and allowing him to become president in the early 2000s. Could lead to a very messy world given the consequences in Korea, Japan and how Buchanan generally is.
 

Anchises

Banned
I was kind of thinking dystopia, where he stays on for a while, and the USSR hardliners take down Gorbachev, but to be totally honest, I don't think either arrangement could last forever. For All Time and Rumsfeldia and the rest make permanent dystopia too easy, in my estimation. The real danger is what happens when responsibilities shift from Norman's generation to that of his son's, which, as I explained in the original thread, had a lot less perspective, and were a lot more uncritically accepting of conservative dogma. If John and William win out, then there's trouble for a long time ahead, if not, things will sort themselves out by 2004 or so, maybe.

I would agree with your statement about a lot of TLs make Dystopia seem to easy.

OTL a lot of dystopian situations quickly normalized because most people actually want to have a normal existence. The cultural revolution or the revolution in Iran are prominent examples.

For a longer lasting dystopia you need long term international developments.
 
Would Trump run on a Paleoconservative platform in the 80s and 90s though? I know he was always protectionist, but I thought he was more amenable to populist platform back then, if only because he was not tied to the GOP.
 
Top