A Green And Pleasant Land

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by VVD0D95, Jun 28, 2019.

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  1. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    It's in the hands of the de Soules family at the moment
     
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  2. Valena Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Michaelmas is celebrated in September, the winter references puzzled me. 1280ies is like 40+ years before the proper start of Little Ice Age, so September looks closer to summer month.
    In 1280ies wine was still produced in Scotland!
     
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  3. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Ah fair, guess I was using an outdated reference aha and the fact it was set in December didn't help either.
     
  4. Valena Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Little Ice Age, it's about a century before Greenland would be completely isolated (as is ice making sailing in nearby waters near impossible), and we're having a different dynasty in Norway here (no PU with Sweden and dynastic strifes) - Vinland rediscovery, anyone?
     
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  5. Threadmarks: Chapter 15: The Crown and The Key

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 15: The Crown and the Key



    March, 1287



    Edward shifted through the papers before him. He felt tired, he felt as though there was something chipping away at him. He was not sure what it was. Perhaps it was something he ate. He would need to speak with Eleanor about the cooks. He picked up one of the documents and then spoke. “This document says we are moving away from the debts and problems of the Welsh wars and the French issue. So, tell me, how have we managed this?”

    John Kirkby, Bishop of Ely spoke then. “Sire, we have received the money owed to Queen Eleanor in full as Her Majesty requested. We’ve also received excess pay from the Earls of Gloucester, Hereford and Baron Mortimer for their feuding as agreed at Wigmore Castle.”

    “Very good. And how might we continue this? There are several reforms I wish to bring to the realm. Improving the connections between the Kingdom and ensuring we have a proper drainage system.” Edward said.

    Kirkby said nothing for a moment and then responded. “I believe that we would need to raise the taxation on the wine merchants and the wool traders to ensure we are getting the right dues from their sales. However, to be able to counter any protests we must also ensure we raise some slow raised taxes in regards to the nobles.”

    Edward nodded, he knew that his father and grandfather had tried to do something like this once before, and they had faced rebellions from the barons. Gloucester himself had rebelled during this time. “We shall need to play a balancing act, I feel. Otherwise, we shall face another war and that is not something I wish to see.”

    Robert Burnell, Lord Chancellor spoke then. “Sire, I believe I might have a way to achieve this.”

    “Go on.” Edward commanded.

    “Why do we not levy the tax on the wool merchants and wine merchants, and then add in a bill through the council and then through Parliament for a two percent rise in the amount they pay in their services to the crown. Furthermore, we could raise the cost of knighthood fees by two percent also. Given the number of nobles who have second and third sons who are wishing to achieve knighthoods that would give us quite a lot.” Burnell said.

    Edward pondered this and asked. “Would such a thing be within the legal means? What of the Magna Carta would they not use that to challenge this?”

    Burnell shook his head. “No, Sire. The Magna Carta covers many things but it does not mention anything about the Knighthood clause nor the services of the crown. Therefore, I believe that Parliament could not object to this being levied.”

    Edward nodded. “Very well, have this drafted out and issued. And send the writs out for Parliament, I shall want this done officially.”

    “Yes, Sire.” Burnell said. There was a brief pause, and then Burnell said. “There was one other thing that could be done to ensure the nobles don’t protest.”

    “And what is that?” Edward asked though he thought he knew what was going to be suggested.

    “A marriage between the former leader of the opposition, Lord Gloucester and one of Your Majesty’s daughters.” Burnell said. “It would go a long way to healing the divisions and would make Gloucester more willing to pay attention to what Your Majesty wants.”

    Edward did not like the idea of giving one of his daughters to Gloucester, but he knew there was sense in the proposal. “My daughter Joan is betrothed to the Count of Valois, breaking that marriage would leave us at odds with France. Our daughter Margaret is betrothed to the Count of Brabant, our daughter Mary is in the church and our daughter Elizabeth is five. There is not one daughter who is free to be wed.”

    “Then perhaps a member of the extended members of the Royal Family could be offered?” Burnell asked.

    Edward thought on this and then responded. “My cousin Margaret could be considered a suitable bride. However, Gloucester had married our cousin as a first wife, therefore, one would need a dispensation from His Holiness to ensure it happens.”

    Burnell nodded. “I can send a letter to our friends in Rome to ensure that it is granted.”

    “And of course if you were to seize Jewish assets and money within the land, you would endear yourself to His Holiness, more Your Majesty.” Kirkby said.

    Edward nodded. “Very well, send the letter, and send out the writ for the seizures.” He rose and walked out of the room, needing to use the toilet to ensure he did not do something he might regret later.
     
  6. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    i'd be down for that!
     
  7. Ivan Lupo Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why, but I have this crazy feeling that Charles and Joan are going to embolden each other. Charles was very ambitious and Joan was very rebellious.
     
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  8. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Potentially issue for Philip then do you think?
     
  9. Ivan Lupo Well-Known Member

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    Or Edward. I read in The Shadow Queen that Edward had his hands full with all his daughters as they were all willfull and demanding to an extent, but Joan was especially rebellious. So basically big, bad, mean King Edward Longshanks coped with them by letting them do mostly what they wanted, from allowing Elizabeth to not go to Holland immediately after her wedding, to covering Mary's gambling debts, and finally giving his blessing to Joan's OTL second marriage, when she ran away and eloped with the squire of her late first husband, though not without nearly disinheriting her and confiscating her lands and estates first. Odd as it is to think, but his daughters all got a lot of Daddy's Little Girl treatment.

    Now with her own independence secured, and with a wealthy, handsome, and ambitious Prince du Sang close to her own age on her arm...well, they are certainly a power couple looking to get theirs and possibly more.
     
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  10. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Hmm interesting I do
    Wonder what’s theirs would
    Look like
     
  11. Ivan Lupo Well-Known Member

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    A real handful probably.
     
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  12. Threadmarks: Chapter 16: Alphonso's Psalter

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 16: Alphonso’s Psalter



    July, 1287


    They’d finally managed to get rid of the lady who kept an eye on Margaret, and Alphonso trusted his two guards to be discreet. It had been hard to get rid of the harridan but they’d managed it somehow. “That was brilliant what you said.” Alphonso said, drinking a cup of wine. “The Queen needs to see her, brilliant, especially with the Queen actually having asked to see her.”

    Margaret giggled a little and Alphonso felt something in him flip. “Well, at least now the Queen will hear about how disobedient I’m being according to Sister Elizabeth.”

    “Yes well, Sister Elizabeth can be ignored for the time being.” Alphonso said.

    Margaret feigned a gasp and put a hand to her mouth, Alphonso looked at her and felt the urge to kiss her then, but he prevented himself from doing so. “My Prince, how scandalous.”

    Alphonso grinned. “Well, now that she’s gone we might as well take advantage of it.”

    Margaret smiled as well, and his heart did that strange flip again. “And what did you have in mind exactly?”

    Alphonso was very much aware that at any moment his father or mother or even Sister Elizabeth could walk in and then there’d be a scandal. So, he kept his hands behind his back and whispered. “Well, what did you want to do?”

    “Well,” Margaret whispered back. “Isabella told me of the little game she and Patrick played the other day.”

    Alphonso leaned in then, unable to help himself, Patrick had told him of this same game as well. “And what game was this?”

    “It’s better if I show you.” Margaret replied. Before he could respond, she moved in and pressed her lips to his and then moved back.

    Alphonso blinked and then said. “I didn’t quite get that, could you try again?”

    Margaret giggled and leaned in, she pressed another kiss to his lips and then leaned against him and whispered. “Did you get it now?”

    Alphonso grinned. “I did. I think I should try it now.” With that he held her to him and kissed her, he felt her deepen the kiss, and soon enough there was a bit of tongue which felt odd but also quite nice, but then they heard footsteps and drew apart. Alphonso took a deep breath and turned. But there was nobody there. He blushed then looking at Margaret, her hair was slightly astray, he helped her fix it and then took her hand. “So….”

    Margaret looked at him and smiled. “So….”

    Alphonso did not quite know what to do, his trousers had become somewhat tight, and he hoped Margaret could not see them. He cleared his throat and said. “Have you per chance read any of the story of Try?”

    Margaret’s face lit up. “Oh I have! I have. I found it most fascinating, though I prefer the story of Heracles.”

    Alphonso was intrigued. He preferred Jason, but Heracles always did seem fascinating. “Why is that?” He asked.

    “The trials of Heracles are some of the greatest story telling ever to have existed.” His wife enthused. Her cheeks were flushed and she looked absolutely beautiful, Alphonso sat enraptured as she continued. “He conquers everything in his path and does it through understanding where his strengths and limitations are, and he ensures that at the end the people benefit.”

    Alphonso nodded but then said. “But he also was fiercely arrogant and someone who had a fearsome temper. Furthermore, having Zeus as a father must have helped.”

    His wife grinned at him, making him want to kiss her again. “Is that jealousy I hear, my Prince?”

    Alphonso blushed and shrugged. “Not all, my Princess, indeed, it is an observation. I would rather be me than Heracles. Imagine having to perform all those trials, it would be exhausting.” He flopped down onto the ground dramatically causing Margaret to laugh.

    She soon joined him on the ground and whispered. “I agree, I think it is better to be who we are than to wish to be someone else. Perhaps one day we shall build our own monuments.”

    He looked at her and said. “Perhaps we will.” Though deep down he knew he would, for how could he not?
     
  13. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Ooh. I like this. The could shape up to be quite the power couple, just like Alphonso's parents...
     
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  14. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Indeed they could :)
     
  15. Ivan Lupo Well-Known Member

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    And just like his parents, Alphonso is looking to continue his dynasty at a very young age (the dates indicate he would be 13 going on 14 right about now). Glad to see these two sweet kids are getting along so well, talking, exploring....they might need a chaperone still.
     
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  16. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Indeed indeed aha
     
  17. Ivan Lupo Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what the Philips of France are getting themselves up to? Or in general, how go things in France at the moment?
     
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  18. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Oh you'll see soon
     
  19. Threadmarks: Chapter 17: Comyn's A Coming

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 17: Comyn’s A Coming



    November, 1287


    John looked at his brother by marriage and wondered just how the man managed to maintain estates in Scotland as well as in Northern England. He constantly looked frazzled and uncertain, and as if he was led around by his far more powerful and charismatic wife. Still, Balliol was his brother by marriage and so he would discuss this matter with him. He started off with the pleasantries first.

    “How are your wife and children?” John asked. Balliol had a son named Edward after his famous patron, and a daughter who he had named Margaret in honour of the King’s daughter and wife.

    Balliol smiled. “They are well thank you, John, and yours? How are your wife and children?”

    John nodded. “They are well enough.” He didn’t want to discuss his family with a man like Balliol, even if his wife was Balliol’s sister. She had far more back bone than he did.

    “That is good.” Balliol said and then he surprised him by saying. “But you did not come all the way to Dundee, to ask me about my family. So, what is it you wanted to discuss?”

    John smiled, sometimes Balliol could be clever, sometimes he could be quite daft. Either way now that they had cut through the pleasantries he could get to work on his actual reason for coming to this hovel of a town. “My cousin, Alexander has managed to get the Earl of Gairoch to investigate the Lord of Liddesdale for bribery and black mail charges. This is something that even the King has agreed to do. Though they are doing it discreetly. When the news is formally announced at court next month, there will be outrage from the Bruce faction, because Liddesdale is one of their men.”

    Balliol caught on quick enough. “You want to know where I stand on the matter.” John nodded. And Balliol asked. “Well is there any truth to the accusations? I know your cousin’s daughter is married to the Earl of Dunbar, so what happened there?”

    “The Lord of Lauderdale approached the Earl of Dunbar asking for help in loan repayment, because another lord was threatening him with black mail and bribery which naturally breaks the law. Dunbar’s wife wrote to her father and he brought it up with the Prince. There is some truth to the matter, but Lauderdale is someone who is easily biddable. He actually owes more debt to Dunbar than he does Liddesdale, but Liddesdale was easily pushed into bribery.” John admitted, all it had taken was a push in the right direction.

    “And you’re sure the Prince and the King won’t discover this?” Balliol asked.

    John shook his head. “I am quite sure. The Prince is someone who wants the truth to be uncovered and he has pursued this with great clarity and effectiveness. His wife has also investigated some of this through her ladies in waiting. The King wants his son to earn some success as well.”

    “Very well.” Balliol said. “You’ve got my support there, but what else made you come here?”

    John got the impression his brother by marriage wanted him gone, which he found amusing. “Your daughter is the same age as the Prince’s newborn son David, I believe it would be appropriate to arrange a marriage for them.”

    “You think the King or the Prince would agree?” Balliol asked.

    “I think the King would, he wishes to bring in more neutral parties to court, and your daughter would of course come with a hefty dowry. There is no reason why he should refuse.” John replied.

    “And the Prince?” Balliol asked.

    “The Prince will do whatever gives him and his wife the most security. Leave him to me, and it will be sorted. Just think about it though, your daughter will be a Princess.” John said. From the look on Balliol’s face he knew he had won him over.
     
  20. FriendlyGhost Haunting history for 45+ yrs

    Oh, this is getting interesting - a Comyn/Balliol play for power by the back door?
     
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