A Glorious Union or America: the New Sparta
- Thread starter TheKnightIrish
- Start date
Surely it's more likely to be Japan/Russia/China? With France, the US and Britain as outside contenders (more or less in that order I should think.)
My Korean history is fuzzy but don't they 'provoke' the US and France in the period into mini-wars?
I suspect China might be toast - longer lasting Taiping Kingdom. Austrians and Mexicans in Tientsin!?
The US and French certainly got involved in Korea, but flying the flag in response to an insult is one thing, establishing a protectorate (as opposed to a coastal concession) with no nearby bases and in the sphere of influence of other powers... that's quite another.
As to China- I see no reason why a Taiping ruled China would stop seeing the Korean peninsular as part of their diplomatic domains. They might not be successful in keeping that status quo, but they'd fight for it.
I assumed the Austrians and Mexicans in Tientsin simply referred to one of the toeholds on the coast carved out as part of the unequal treaties. Austria-Hungary was one of the Eight Nation Alliance OTL- it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that they manage to get a port signed over to them if the Qing are a bit weaker.
As to China- I see no reason why a Taiping ruled China would stop seeing the Korean peninsular as part of their diplomatic domains. They might not be successful in keeping that status quo, but they'd fight for it.
I assumed the Austrians and Mexicans in Tientsin simply referred to one of the toeholds on the coast carved out as part of the unequal treaties. Austria-Hungary was one of the Eight Nation Alliance OTL- it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that they manage to get a port signed over to them if the Qing are a bit weaker.
So far as Chine goes, I'm assuming a 3 way between Russia, Japan, and China. However, this is in 1903, so maybe the US does get involved there. In my mind those three powers make sense though, as unless Japan is actually hit back and the Meiji Restoration doesn't go ahead I can't see a problem in Japan still climbing the ladders of success. Though this unresolved Taiping stuff is a wild card...
I dunno. All the US has to do is be silly enough to take a coaling station concession or something of that nature and watch the mission creep begin.
I'm trying to guess the parties in the Emperors War and what might trigger it. It's easier to draw the US in if it has wider territorial interests - Corean protectorate, Chinese concessions...
I'm trying to guess the parties in the Emperors War and what might trigger it. It's easier to draw the US in if it has wider territorial interests - Corean protectorate, Chinese concessions...
Hmm I had forgotten about that. Mission creep, always the mission creep...
My guess for the Three Emperor's War is Austria, France, and Mexico, but I could be wrong and we could have such varied allies as Russia with AH and Mexico, or even Prussia/Germany and AH and Mexico. Without any solid confirmation on the French it's hard to say. I'd be willing to be the war is triggered by "Some damn thing in the Balkans" though
The Imperial powers love to spread the joy
We might also see a war involving France, Prussia/Germany, and Russia, in some combination. Come to think of it, we haven't seen that much of Russia; They kind of got left out of the Great European Tour.
Chapter One Hundred and Fifty Four Into Africa
Chapter One Hundred and Fifty Four
Into Africa
Into Africa
From "Son of the Morning Star" by George A. Custer
Harper and Bros. 1885
“The Anglo-American Expedition to Abyssinia was prompted by no thirst for glory, by no lust for conquest. Unwillingly entered upon for the sake of humanity by the Governments of England and the United States, it was vigorously carried through in the same cause by the officers to whom its conduct was entrusted. Its success was great. There was no territorial aggrandisement. Yet it did not pass unrewarded, for its result was greatly to raise both the English and American armies in European estimations…
The troops were not only liberators of their countrymen, but were explorers in an unknown land. The theatre of our operations was little better understood than when it was supposed to be the seat of empire of the mythical Prestor John. The cloud of mystery which enveloped this African Switzerland, the uncertainty of adventure, and the confidence felt by all ranks in their chosen commanders, lured many volunteers to seek service in the enterprise. Apart from the army there was no desire for the expedition...”
Theodore II or Tewodros II
From “An Account of the Recent Campaign in Abyssinia” by Captain J.F. Goodfellow
Macmillan & Co 1870
“Lij Kassa was born in Kouara, the western province of Abyssinia about the year 1818. His father was of noble family, and his uncle Dejatch [chief] Comfu was the governor of the provinces of Dembea, Kouara and Tschelga…
In 1852 Kassa signally overthrew and killed Dejatch Goshu, one of Ras Ali’s best generals. The Ras now took strenuous measures to oppose Kassa’s rise…
Kassa marched to Godjam and defeated the troops of Ras Ali and Oobye. By this victory the whole possessions of Ras Ali fell into Kassa’s hands…
In February 1855 Oobye, the governor of Tigre, his most formidable antagonist was overthrown. In March of the same year Kassa took the title Theodore II…
Following Consul Plowden’s death, Captain Cameron was appointed Consul in Abyssinia. In February 1862 he arrived at Massawah, and in July at Gondar. He was received with great honour and treated with every respect. When he arrived there were a great many Europeans around Theodore. Six Germans who had been sent out as scripture readers: Flad, Waldmaier, Saalmuller, Kenzlin, Mayer and Bender. They had little time for missionary work as Theodore employed them in the manufacture of munitions of war. There were also three missionaries – Staiger, Brandius and Rosenthal who’s wife accompanied him. They were soon joined by Mr and Mrs Stern. There were also some adventurers around Theodore’s camp – three Frenchmen: Bardel, Bourgaud the armourer, and Maberer the soldier; a Pole named Hall; and two German chasseurs formerly in the service of the Duke of Saxe-Coburg...”
From "Son of the Morning Star" by George A. Custer
Harper and Bros. 1885
“Cameron’s mission was increasingly misinterpreted by Theodore, and he assumed the English were intriguing with his enemy, the Turk, and threw Cameron into prison. This occurred in 1863. With the passage of time matters went from bad to worse, and with an exchange of correspondence and parleys too tedious to recount, finally all the Europeans in the country, including the missionaries were made prisoners. There they were subject to all the tortures the barbarian mind could conjure...”
Colonel George A. Custer
From “America in Abyssinia – a reassessment” by Dr. Luther K. Price
Buffalo 1991
“It was into this powder keg that the Reverend Hezekiah H. Hunter of the African-American Missionary Society arrived in late 1866. Reverend Hunter concluded, on the briefest of experiences of Abyssinia, that he could intercede on the prisoners' behalf where the European envoys had failed. As an American and thus of neutral standing, and indeed as a fellow negro, he believed himself the ideal emissary to Theodore. A little faith is a dangerous thing and Reverend Hunter failed to accountant for several factors which would govern Theodore’s increasingly irrational thinking...
Theodore’s views on race were rather more nuanced that Reverend Hunter’s and it is clear he viewed a black envoy as an insult to his status…
Rumours that the Turk was employing Americans had reached the ears of the Abyssinian Court. That Theodore did not distinguish between Union men and Confederate exiles could come as no surprise…
Finally President Lincoln had, in Theodore’s eyes, committed the same sin as Queen Victoria. He had not replied in a timely and respectful fashion to Theodore’s diplomatic correspondence and thus had insulted Theodore personally…
Thus Hunter found himself chained in Magdala with the Europeans. Worse, as he was in Abyssinian eyes African, he was subject to worse tortures and indignities than his fellow prisoners...”
From “An Account of the Recent Campaign in Abyssinia” by Captain J.F. Goodfellow
Macmillan & Co 1870
“The Government, supported by the public opinion, was loath to thrust an expedition into a distant land, shrouded in mystery, where danger alone was certain. The army however writhed beneath the insult which a British envoy had received at the hands of an African savage. They spoke loudly their opinions and these acted as a stimulus on such part of public opinion which yet did not despair of the prowess of the nation’s arms. The band which advocated the rescue of the captives by force gained in numbers and brought its weight to bear upon the Government…
It appears that, towards the middle of April 1867, the Government first began to contemplate seriously the possibility of an expedition to Abyssinia. With the view of such an eventual necessity, the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, in whose department the management of the Abyssinian difficultly had hitherto lain, officially invited the attention of the Secretary of War and of the Secretary of India to the subject. In June the Government sought information as to the possibilities of an expedition into the country of Theodore...”
From "Son of the Morning Star" by George A. Custer
Harper and Bros. 1885
“As soon as the idea of a possible invasion of Abyssinia was conceived by the ministers of England, it was natural that they should look around to see what other affected nations might rise to share the burden. France, preoccupied with Mexico and the rising difficulties in the Germanies, dismissed England’s invitation. America’s response, which England’s ministers no doubt thought mere proforma, would reverberate around the corridors of Whitehall and Horse Guards for months to come...”
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I shall in the next chapter explain in more detail how America gets involved and what forces are sent...
I'm surprised, I believed the war in Mexico was pretty much over, and even in 1865/1866, leaning towards victory.
As for Germany, unless France took part in the conflict unlike IOTL, the different outcome of the Mexican adventure would rather favor French intervention on British side. Napoléon III was very eager for British favors, engaging France in Crimea and China under this objective; ITTL, with Mexico a success, I don't see why he wouldn't go for Ethiopia if London asks.
That reminds me also that France was involved about the same time in a punitive expedition to Korea, which was ended before all objectives were achieved, partly because of the Mexican situation.
I also remember that around the time there was the General Sherman incident after the American ship that was attacked by Koreans in 1866. I believe that Americans did propose a joint French-American expedition but that never came to fruition.
Here, you got much friendlier relation between Paris and Washington, if ever the General Sherman Incident happens TTL under a form or another.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_campaign_against_Korea
I will deal with France after Abyssinia when I look at wider world events before covering the 1868 election...but needless to say, the French are rather busy at the moment...
Seconded, especially as regards Theodore's psychology.
George Custer and Hancock slumming it with redcoats and elephants in the highlands of Ethiopia? I simply cannot wait to see how this turns out!
I've been wondering how things were shaping up abroad since 1864, now I just can't wait for a look at the wider world, and the election of 1868! Both promise to be oh so fascinating.