A concept for a mod for HOI IV

I gonna start with the disclaimer that I have no skill whatsoever to make this mod, and until now I was afraid of creating a thread for it since someone could steal my idea. Turns out however that if someone steals the idea the mod can be done, but if I keep it , the idea will die anyway. The mod does not have a name and just a vague timeline for now, as the strong part is the concept.

The idea began to form when I asked on the 1900 forum if the entente could win WWI without the support of the USA (please, do not start a discussion about this on the comments), and someone commented that a victory is near impossible, and so realistically either it would result on a limited German victory or a Stalemate.

A Stalemate then. On the timeline the unrestricted submarine warfare is not resumed, but the 1918 spring offensive fails to defeat the French and so both sides come to the tables. The German Imperial Navy is unable to treaten the French or British colonies, neither the Belgan Congo, so the post war settlement results on Germany losing all their colonies, but at the same time keeping alsace lorraine and installing a puppet on the kingdom of Belgium with the belgan government moving to Congo. Germany do not absorbs the rest of the french alsace lorraine as in KR, and Luxembourg is annexed. The brest litovsky borders are kept in the east and Austria Hungary reforms as Kaiser Karl promissed in 1918 into the United States of Greater Austria.

That is basically the whole concept of how Europe is divided, there is no fascist france or communist UK, the whites win the civil war but there is a republic. What changes is basically dependent of the player. The mod would use the same social system as in "Apres moi le deluge", allowing you to change economic policies, appoint a lot of different leaders and change your government (albeit not so radically as in AMD), with some economic policies inspired from "The Iron curtain" cold war mod. I always found very strange how good is the economical mobilization system, you get more industries and bonuses to build industries, so the system will be changed, as you scale the mobilization, more bonuses you will gain to build military factories and for factory output, however you will decrease your available factories since more civilian factories will be used for military production, while civilian economy in the other hand will give you bonuses to build civilian factories and for stability.

The national concept would work depending on the country, the idea is to give as many routes possible and getting very close to ASB, for this I gonna use two examples, France first and then Germany. France was under a period of chaos in the early 1920s when a junta was stabilished to reorganize the country, and democracy got reestabilished in 1928. At the start France is a republic under a conservative government and many routes would be possible. You want a fascist France? Elect the french popular party, militarize the country, build a war economy, conscript as much people you can, declare war on Germany and hit your head against the wall of troops stationed on the German border, while risking losing the war and having to return the german colonies you annexed...with interest. Or you can elect the social liberals, focus on the bourgeisie, build your economy, approach Germany, make instiments there and asks for investiment, recognize their gains in exange for keeping their colonies and grant peace. Do you want the "Salazar" solution? Get the Action Française in power, purge the opposition restore the monarchy and adopts isolationism waiting for Germany to attack you or for them to be distracted to invade them. I even tough of a joker route, as the player would get the opportunity to restore Napoleon if they are with the fascists. If you follow this route the party and the military would protest since monarchical bonapartist is dead since the Franco prussian war. If you insist you get removed by a coup before you can crown him.

Germany in other hand was a military junta at the end of the war and while the government returned to civilian hands, the army acts like a shadow behind it with their demands for a final war and the return of the colonies, some going further to ask a final showdown with France and Britain. You could follow a conservative route, placate the military with some reforms but also diplomatically reapproach France and the UK, spread your influence into austria, garantee the powers of the Kaiser and the bourgeisie and bring stability to europe, or you could go for a militarist run, put Von Schleicher in power, build up the armed forces even more and start the second world war with a "Colonies or war" ultimatum, of which depending of which government is in France and UK they could accept, and you still could press if you want and declare war on them. This route would have jokers too, if you always placate the army over and over again the military costs would increase so much that your economy will eventually collapse and the war spending would be slashed and the militarists forced out of government, imagine how happy a Fascist France would be if you has a -20% morale malus as your soldiers are not being paid?

Every gameplay would be different, you would be able to have a democratic germany, france, UK and Russia cooperating for stability, or a militaristic Germany, a left wing radical France, a monarchist Russia and a democratic but extremely expansionist british empire facing themselves.

Finally there would be the war maluses. To each year of war you would get a high maluses based on a national focus. With 1 year of war you will get -10% stability and -10% war support. For the second year both numbers would go to 20%, until after five years you get -50%, forcing you to keep spending political power on war propaganda and stability decisions.

If your war support and stability get's lower than 20%, strikes would begin and multinies too, crippling your war effort. If both get lower than 10% you would get a civil war with either far right or far left factions taking over, thus allowing you to play as a communist Germany or a fascist UK, but do not expect to win the war that your former government started, you most likely will end butchered as the soviets in brest litovsky.

Well, here is it. What do you think?
 
:) How is Eastern Europe doing?
The same as kaiserreich. If have a similar gameplay possible for their states, you can for example have a coup by the local german garrison in the baltic duchy and turn it into a teutonic state (not reviving the teutonic order, but a higly militaristic german state opressing the locals.)

You can try to break free and be broken, or wait until Germany is at war to backstab them. Ukraine would be able to make Greater Ukraine, but succeding is another thing:
 
Would Italy still be Fascist under Mussolini? If so, do the Fascists overthrow the Monarchy in a Civil War and create a Fascist Republic? Also how about ideologies? Are there new Ideologies?

I can imagine more ideologies existing:
  • Totalitarian Socialist [Totalitarian rule is enforced to defend the Socialist revolution]
  • Vanguardist Socialist [Socialism with an emphasis of a violent revolution]
  • Collectivist [Centralized Socialism]
  • Syndicalist [Self-Explanatory --> Trade Union Socialists]
  • Revolutionary Socialist [Radical Socialist who are neither Authoritarian, Totalitarian, Communist, Syndicalist or Anarchist]
  • Libertarian Socialist [Anarcho-Communists and Etc.]
  • Social Democrat [Self-Explanatory]
  • Social Liberal [Liberals with an Emphasis on Progressivism]
  • Market Liberal [Liberals with an Emphasis on Free Market]
  • Centrist Conservative [Left of the Social Conservatives & Right of the Liberals]
  • Social Conservative
  • Authoritarian Democrat
    • Exp. Oligarchy + Military Junta
  • Paternal Autocrat
    • Exp. Absolute Monarchies + Military Dictatorships + Constitutional Dictatorships
  • National Populist [Authoritarian Far-Right Nationalists who aren't quite Fascist]
    • Exp. Italian Nationalist Association + Spanish Francoists + French Croix-de-Feu or Action Francaise
  • National Syndicalist [Fascism with Leftist Characteristics]
    • Exp. The Italian Fascist-Syndicalists under Edmondo Rossoni + Spanish Falangists under Manuel Hedilla or Ramiro Ledesma Ramos + French Cercle Proudhon under George Valois + Portuguese Integralists
  • National Corporatist [Fascism with Corporatist Characteristics]
    • Exp. The Italian Fascists under Benito Mussolini + Spanish Falangists under Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera + Marcel Bucard's Francistes + Salazar's Portuguese National Union + Mosley's British Union of Fascists.
  • National Legionary [Fascism with an Emphasis of Nazism and Racist, Fanatical or Religious Characteristics]
    • Exp. The Croatian Ustase + Spanish Falangists under Onesimo Redondo/Castilian Groups for Hispanic Action + Romanian Iron Guard + Hungarian Arrow Cross + Russian Black Hundredists + The American Silver Legion or Ku Klux Klan.
 
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Maybe this could be used as a "placeholder" ideology for left-SocDems/DemSocs like the USPD in Germany and the ILP in Britain?
That's what I'm thinking. So like a placeholder ideology.

Also for the Far-Right Ideologies, I thought of dividing them into NatSynd, NatCorp, and NatLeg.

National Populists are Authoritarian Nationalists who aren't exactly Fascists. It’s a term used to describe a group of far-right authoritarian nationalist ideologies that combine populistic, nationalistic and conservative values. So examples include groups like the Italian Nationalist Association, French Croix-de-Feu, and the Action Francaise along with the Spanish Francoists who are similar to Fascists but aren't really Fascists.

The National Syndicalists being in favor of Socialist, Syndicalist or Leftist Policies. So like people within this category would consist of National Bolshevists and Strasserists along with your typical National Syndicalists like George Valois' Cercle Proudhon, Italian Fascist-Syndicalists under Edmondo Rossoni and the Spanish Falangists under Manuel Hedilla or Ramiro Ledesma Ramos.

The National Corporatists being the more ordinary Fascists who support the Traditional Fascist Corporatist Policies. So like the Italian Fascists under Mussolini, the French Popular Party under Jacques Doriot/The Francistes Party under Marcel Bucard and Spanish Falangists under Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera.

Thus the National Legionaries are Fascists who represent the more insane Racist and Anti-Semitic types resembling Nazis, Ultra-Reactionaries, Religious Zealots, and Fanatical Ultranationalists. Hence you have the US Silver Legion/US Ku Klux Klan, Romanian Iron Guard, Hungarian Arrow Cross, Croatian Ustase and the Russian Black Hundreds.
 
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So like this for example:

France
  • French Communist Party [Totalitarian Socialist] - Maurice Thorez
  • French Communist Party [Vanguardist Socialist] - Jacques Duclos
  • French Communist Party [Collectivist] - Benoit Frachon
  • General Confederation of Labor [Syndicalism] - Pierre Monatte + Victor Griffuelhes
  • French Section of the Workers' International - Radical [Revolutionary Socialism] - Marceau Pivert + Ludovic-Oscar Froissart + Paul Ramadier
  • Unione Anarchist [Libertarian Socialism] - Daniel Guerin
  • French Section of the Workers' International - Moderate [Social Democrat] - Leon Blum
  • Liberal Republican Party [Social Liberal] - Pierre Laval
  • Democratic-Republican Alliance [Market Liberal] - Pierre-Étienne Flandin
  • Popular Republican Party [Centrist Conservative] - Georges Bidault
  • Republican Party [Social Conservative] - Joseph Laniel
  • National Revolutionary Front [Authoritarian Democrat] - Philip Petain
    • Rally of the French People - Charles de Gaulle
  • Secret Committee of Revolutionary Action [Paternal Autocrat] - Eugene Deloncle
  • Cross-of-Fire [National Populist] - Francois de la Rocque
    • French Action - Charles Maurras
  • French Popular Party [National Syndicalist] - Jacques Doriot + George Valois
    • National Popular Rally - Marcel Deat
    • French National Collectivist Party - Pierre Clementi
  • Francist Republican Party [National Corporatist] - Marcel Bucard
  • Catholic National Union [National Legionary] - Xavier Vallet
Note:
  1. There are two Authoritarian Democratic Parties where there is a conflict between the Petainist National Revolutionary Front and the Gaullist Rally of the French People.
  2. The National Populists are divided between the Proto-Fascist/Republican Cross-of-Fire who seek to create an Authoritarian Republic and the Monarchist French Action who seek to recreate the Kingdom of France under the Orleans Dynasty.
  3. Decided to assign the French Popular Party as National-Syndicalist due to the Party's history with membership consisting of Ex-Communists and Ex-Socialists. As well I decided to incorporate the Cercle Proudhon National-Syndicalists like George Valois in the Popular Party ranks. As well there are other parties from Deat's Neosocialist NPR and Clementi's National-Collectivists.
  4. The Francist Party was a French Fascist Party inspired by Mussolini, I decided to rename them as the Francist Republican Party.
 
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Would Italy still be Fascist under Mussolini? If so, do the Fascists overthrow the Monarchy in a Civil War and create a Fascist Republic? Also how about ideologies? Are there new Ideologies?

I can imagine more ideologies existing:
  • Totalitarian Socialist [Totalitarian rule is enforced to defend the Socialist revolution]
  • Vanguardist Socialist [Socialism with an emphasis of a violent revolution]
  • Collectivist [Centralized Socialism]
  • Syndicalist [Self-Explanatory --> Trade Union Socialists]
  • Revolutionary Socialist [Radical Socialist who are neither Authoritarian, Totalitarian, Communist, Syndicalist or Anarchist]
  • Libertarian Socialist [Anarcho-Communists and Etc.]
  • Social Democrat [Self-Explanatory]
  • Social Liberal [Liberals with an Emphasis on Progressivism]
  • Market Liberal [Liberals with an Emphasis on Free Market]
  • Centrist Conservative [Left of the Social Conservatives & Right of the Liberals]
  • Social Conservative
  • Authoritarian Democrat
    • Exp. Oligarchy + Military Junta
  • Paternal Autocrat
    • Exp. Absolute Monarchies + Military Dictatorships + Constitutional Dictatorships
  • National Populist [Authoritarian Far-Right Nationalists who aren't quite Fascist]
    • Exp. Italian Nationalist Association + Spanish Francoists + French Croix-de-Feu or Action Francaise
  • National Syndicalist [Fascism with Leftist Characteristics]
    • Exp. The Italian Fascist-Syndicalists under Edmondo Rossoni + Spanish Falangists under Manuel Hedilla or Ramiro Ledesma Ramos + French Cercle Proudhon under George Valois + Portuguese Integralists
  • National Corporatist [Fascism with Corporatist Characteristics]
    • Exp. The Italian Fascists under Benito Mussolini + Spanish Falangists under Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera + Marcel Bucard's Francistes + Salazar's Portuguese National Union + Mosley's British Union of Fascists.
  • National Legionary [Fascism with an Emphasis of Nazism and Racist, Fanatical or Religious Characteristics]
    • Exp. The Croatian Ustase + Spanish Falangists under Onesimo Redondo/Castilian Groups for Hispanic Action + Romanian Iron Guard + Hungarian Arrow Cross + Russian Black Hundredists + The American Silver Legion or Ku Klux Klan.
So, I have a really bad experience on a mod that had too many ideologies, so most of the ideologies would be similar to kaiserreich, with the difference that a lot would be subideologies, so the country could be social liberal with a subideology being the oligarchy.

And yes, Mussolini took over, however since italy lost there is no compromise between the monarchy and the fascists, Italy is a fascist republic

First there would be
:
Totalitarian Socialist, as you suggested. Its sub ideologies would be Leninsm, Vanguardism and Collectivist. There is no syndicalism because the ideology was really, really weak OTL at the time.
DemSoc: Radsocs, anarchists, radical labourists, etc.
Socdems, self explanatory as you said.
SocLib, basically what you said.
I don't really see reason for market liberals
Conservatives.
Populist efficientist; or simply "populist", that is a innovative idea of mine. We had OTL many figures that used both left and right wing politiics, like Perón, Vargas, Long, Nasser?, Ibanez, Cardenas, etc. These would be neither left or right but people adopting what works at the moment. I might change simple to populism and describe their mindset on the subideology, for example, Perón really didn't knew what he was doing economically apart from welfare, so he statized a lot of the economy while adopting free market reforms.
Pat. Aut. ofc, the german empire starts as pataut with Hugenberg being a puppet of the militarists and the junkers as the start.
Reactionary: Regimes built on nostalgia of passed centuries, a integralist led Brazil, a Salazarist Portugal, a Actionist France would be like this.
I was thinking of combining the four "national" ideologies into one, and I'm pretty ok being generic, so it would be simple "Natpop"

Can you rearrange your french government to fit this spectrum?
 
  • French Communist Party (Vanguardist Socialist)
  • French Section of the Workers International (Revolutionary Socialist)
    • General Workers Party (Sub-Ideology: Syndicalist)
    • Anarchist Union (Sub-Ideology: Anarcho-Communist)
  • French Section of the Workers International (Social Democrat)
  • Liberal Republican Party (Liberal)
    • Democratic Republican Alliance (Sub-Ideology: Market Liberal)
  • Republican Federation Party (Conservative)
    • Popular Republican Party (Sub-Ideology: Centrist Conservative)
  • National Revolutionary Front (Populist)
    • Rally for the French People (Sub-Ideology: Military Populist)
  • French Action (Reactionary - Monarchist)
    • Cross-of-Fire (Sub-Ideology: Republican Nationalist)
  • Secret Committee of Revolutionary Action (Paternal Autocrat)
    • National Revolutionary Front (Sub-Ideology: Constitutional Dictatorship)
  • Francist Party (National Populist - Sub-Ideology: National Corporatist)
    • National Popular Rally/French National Collectivist Party [Sub-Ideology: National Bolsevism]
    • French Popular Party [Sub-Ideology: National Syndicalist]
    • Catholic National Union [Sub-Ideology: National Legionary]
 
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Also for another Idea, what of Spain? A Five-way Civil war that resembles Syria?
  • Carlist Spain*
  • Falangist Spain*
  • Alfonsist Spain*
  • Republican Spain
  • Revolutionary Spain
* - National Populist Path or has a National Populist Option

I did have an idea of Factionalism within the Spanish Falangists perhaps factionalism with sub-ideologies:
  1. The Main Fascist Corporatist Falangists [Sub-Ideology: National-Corporatist] led by Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera and Manuel Hedilla they are inspired by Mussolini's Fascist Ideology.
  2. The Radical National-Syndicalist Falangists [Sub-Ideology: National-Syndicalist] led by Ramiro Ledesma Ramos who seeks to create a Radical Anti-Clerical National Syndicalist Fascist Republic inspired by Sorelian National-Syndicalism. Considered the "Leftist" Faction of the Falange.
  3. The Ultra-Catholic Falangists [Sub-Ideology: National-Legionary] led by Onesimo Redondo who seek to create an Ultra-Catholic Theocratic Nationalist Regime.
And perhaps another National Populist Party within either Republican Spain or Alfonsist Spain - The National Movement led by Francisco Franco consisting of Fascist Officers separate from the Falangists they resemble the OTL Francoists.

As well Carlist National Populists where they are essentially Integralists.
 
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Also for another Idea, what of Spain? A Five-way Civil war that resembles Syria?
  • Carlist Spain*
  • Falangist Spain*
  • Alfonsist Spain*
  • Republican Spain
  • Revolutionary Spain
* - National Populist Path or has a National Populist Option

I did have an idea of Factionalism within the Spanish Falangists perhaps factionalism with sub-ideologies:
  1. The Main Fascist Corporatist Falangists [Sub-Ideology: National-Corporatist] led by Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera and Manuel Hedilla they are inspired by Mussolini's Fascist Ideology.
  2. The Radical National-Syndicalist Falangists [Sub-Ideology: National-Syndicalist] led by Ramiro Ledesma Ramos who seeks to create a Radical Anti-Clerical National Syndicalist Fascist Republic inspired by Sorelian National-Syndicalism. Considered the "Leftist" Faction of the Falange.
  3. The Ultra-Catholic Falangists [Sub-Ideology: National-Legionary] led by Onesimo Redondo who seek to create an Ultra-Catholic Theocratic Nationalist Regime.
And perhaps another National Populist Party within either Republican Spain or Alfonsist Spain - The National Movement led by Francisco Franco consisting of Fascist Officers separate from the Falangists they resemble the OTL Francoists.

As well Carlist National Populists where they are essentially Integralists.
Every single mod got a Spanish civil war, what about a strong Spain that can either democratically or through a coup take many different ideologies instead?
 
What would happen in the USA? Would there be second civil war or various ways to "Peacefully" change government?
No civil war, isolationism still reigns supreme. Something I would like to see however are these peacefull ways to change the government, but nothing ASB like a communist dictatorship under William Z. Foster. This would be left for the USA team, if I had one.

 

Ulyanovsk

Donor
Every single mod got a Spanish civil war, what about a strong Spain that can either democratically or through a coup take many different ideologies instead?
You’d need a farther back PoD than WW1 to justify a strong Spain - the reason every mod has a Spanish Civil War is because the country under Primo de Rivera was deteriorating and headed toward civil war.

This conceot is something never made. Usually it is "What if X country won", on this one no one quite did.
The concept for this mod is pretty interesting, but doesn’t Red Flood also have the premise that no one won?
 
The concept for this mod is pretty interesting, but doesn’t Red Flood also have the premise that no one won?
Yes but there it is because everyone collapsed. Furthermore Red Flood is on many ways a meme mod, I used a lot of skill to make a realistic left wing Brazil but couldn't resist adding a AnCap path.
 
Here a idea for Belgium:

Since the end of war the belgian government is divided in two, the de facto government is exiled in Congo, while a de jure government controls the country under German occupation. The head of state of Belgium since 1919 have been Ludendorff, that hold so much power that the country have been nicknamed by Germans as the "Ludendorffstaatz".



I'm using Ludendorff profile from the great war channel; His government is by no means popular but he managed to make the state works using both a pragmatic collaboration with local forces, a system of political repression present since the great war and a populist rhetoric on the army, allowing a bilingual army be formed and appeasing local officers through many different means. The government is de jure the same Kingdom of Belgium in Congo, but as the King is in Congo the Staf De Clercq (a belgian collaborator who was a member of a big party in 1932, he can be changed at any note) who leads as a regent. In 1938 Ludendorff dies and a sucession is open, and depending of your choices and the german choices your options will vary from crowning Adalbert of prussia as a kingdom of Flanders-Wallonia, breaking with Congo and resulting on a massive wave of dissent, or keeping the current system appointing a new german military governor to help the regency, or signing a deal with France and the UK to leave Belgium and disarm in on the process, allowing the Belgian monarchy to retake power and allowing germany to keep the economical control of the country, while preventing them from taking party on a new world war if it happens.

If you are playing as Germany, be sure that in most cases trying to retreat from belgium will result on your cabinet collapsing.
 
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