12:08 - Redux

Motorail still exists, although there is the tantalising opportunity to allow Motorail services to operate to the Continent one day! This is one service which will diverge from OTL...
When the inevitable Channel Tunnel fire happens I only hope it's not during a Motorail service or things could get really nasty. Particularly as it's early so will not have proper fire detection / protection setup being built earlier.

Electrifying the GCML with a system not used anywhere else in the country. That'll be fun, I'm sure the winning contractors will not want for bonuses for many years. ;)
 
I rather see a High Speed GCML than the line scrapped- esp for Intercity when it comes.

Probably better than HS2?
 

Devvy

Donor
When the inevitable Channel Tunnel fire happens I only hope it's not during a Motorail service or things could get really nasty. Particularly as it's early so will not have proper fire detection / protection setup being built earlier.

Inevitably, there will be a fire at some point, however I'm still hunting for details on whether the earlier scheme envisaged HGV shuttles as well, or just whether freight trains would operate through. Considering the OTL history of most (if not all?) fires being caused by HGVs, it would make quite a difference.

Electrifying the GCML with a system not used anywhere else in the country. That'll be fun, I'm sure the winning contractors will not want for bonuses for many years. ;)

What British Rail timeline would be complete without at least one massive cost overrun and repeatedly delayed deadline! :)

In all honesty, by this point, SNCF has plenty of experience in stringing up 25kV, so there are clear lessons learnt there with what is now rapidly becoming a stable technology. Still plenty of scope to mess it up as it's the first scheme in the UK!

I rather see a High Speed GCML than the line scrapped- esp for Intercity when it comes.

Probably better than HS2?

More to come on chapter 3 of the APT development!

"Better then HS2" - well that depends. The GCML definitely isn't suitable for 400kmh operation unlike HS2 is supposed to be future-proofed for. The GCML does still have bends, and does run through several towns/cities en route north, but obviously it's already "there" so base construction costs can be eliminated. Is it the best available? Probably (although some money still required for renovation)! ;)
 
Inevitably, there will be a fire at some point, however I'm still hunting for details on whether the earlier scheme envisaged HGV shuttles as well, or just whether freight trains would operate through. Considering the OTL history of most (if not all?) fires being caused by HGVs, it would make quite a difference.
The 1960s Study Group came up with a 4.56m high x 3.15m wide loading gauge for the rail tunnels, so a fair bit smaller than the actual Channel Tunnel. But they definitely envisaged motor vehicle and lorries. They planned for 6 vehicle trains an hour (5 for x150 cars on 30 wagons and 1 for x64 'Heavy vehicles' on 32 special wagons). These would be interspaced with six 'normal' railway trains. Study Group report is an interesting read if you can get a copy.

Lorries are going down the tunnel, unless BR/SNCF explicitly ban them and take the financial hit. But why would they? No reason to suspect it's a problem, till the first fire at least.
 
Been reading through this TL and loving it so far, especially the map of railways still standing, and from a Fifer's perspective, so please to see the rail network in Fife is more or less in tact! :)

Wonder how heritage railways will be different ITTL considering that many routes here aren't closed, funnily enough I have been pondering a Scottish heritage rail TL I've been thinking of doing.

Looking forward for whatever we get next! :)
 

Devvy

Donor
Been reading through this TL and loving it so far, especially the map of railways still standing, and from a Fifer's perspective, so please to see the rail network in Fife is more or less in tact! :)

Wonder how heritage railways will be different ITTL considering that many routes here aren't closed, funnily enough I have been pondering a Scottish heritage rail TL I've been thinking of doing.

Looking forward for whatever we get next! :)

It's still here, and quietly brewing as I write more material. Being away for Christmas, then with January consisting of mostly being away for work and being de facto blinded after my infant managed to scratch my cornea a few weeks, I've been a bit too busy for this. Glad you've enjoyed it thus far! For heritage lines; there will definitely be less, as less lines have been cut in the 1960s. There will still be some nice ones; I can definitely see potential for a few ones, but potentially longer. We'll see....might come back to that.

Never fear though, there should be a few articles to publish over the next week or two to push this TL along.

PS: Whilst I'm here, thanks to El Pip for the Study Group comments a while back.
 
It's still here, and quietly brewing as I write more material. Being away for Christmas, then with January consisting of mostly being away for work and being de facto blinded after my infant managed to scratch my cornea a few weeks, I've been a bit too busy for this. Glad you've enjoyed it thus far! For heritage lines; there will definitely be less, as less lines have been cut in the 1960s. There will still be some nice ones; I can definitely see potential for a few ones, but potentially longer. We'll see....might come back to that.

Never fear though, there should be a few articles to publish over the next week or two to push this TL along.

PS: Whilst I'm here, thanks to El Pip for the Study Group comments a while back.

From another fellow alternative railway historian, I hope your eye gets better!
 
There's another Fifer on here! Wow, what are the chances?

@Devvy hope your eye is on the mend.

Small world! :D Where about ye from? I'm from the run-down Lang Toun myself. I do wonder ITTL Dysart and Sinclair town still have their stations intact, but it is great to see the Glenfarg line still intact, one of the worse railway closures in Scotland IMO. I could definitely see that being electrified later on ITTL and acting as a more faster route to Aberdeen from Glasgow or Edinburgh.
 
1972-Cublington

Devvy

Donor
cublington.jpg

The airport will take up a large plot of land in the Vale of Aylesbury.

1972 HEADLINES: GOVERNMENT AGREES TO AIRPORT AT CUBLINGTON

The British Government has agreed to build a new airport at Cublington in Buckinghamshire, much to the disappointment of local residents and activists. Increasing air traffic has resulted in congestion at both London's Heathrow and Gatwick airports; although Gatwick will remain, serving primarily charter and holiday routes, it is highly likely that Heathrow airport will close with all scheduled airlines required to use the new airport, tentatively named "London Britannia Airport". Also affected will be Birmingham Airport; the new airport's location, part way between London and Birmingham means it will be equally able to support Birmingham with a far greater selection of routes and airlines then the current local airport could do, and could well see Birmingham Airport consequently close.

The new airport will be surrounded by a wide "green belt" with farmland and new areas of woodland to hide the airport from the local villages. The green belt will also prevent the kind of development which has blighted the expansion of Heathrow, and Croydon before that, allowing future development of terminals and runways if needed, with an area the size of three Heathrow Airport sites reserved.

The news has been met with, predictably, both positive and negative reactions. In London, MPs praised the bold move of the Government to back the Roskill Commission's findings over the airport location, whilst airport workers reacted with uncertainty over their jobs. Environmental activists and large numbers of local residents promised to appeal, and some to obstruct progress on the airport which will see four villages flattened to build the airport. The Government has promised compensation for those forcibly moved by the airport works, as well as those who will lose farmland for the proposed woodland areas. Some might say that Roskill himself ignored the plight on the land when he merely commented that "the 100,000 adversely affected by this airport will shout far louder than the 100,000,000 who will benefit from it."

The news has been of secondary interest to British Rail, who has been involved in planning for the provision of public transport to the airport. Extensions to the Marylebone route via Aylesbury, as well as a spur from the WCML at Leighton Buzzard have been floated, whilst the route of the Great Central Main Line, currently under study for a high speed link, passes not far from the proposed site and would allow high speed access to the capital and regional centres.

cubrailmap.jpg

Options aplenty with regards to Cublington Airport, according to the Commission papers.

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Notes: Not sure if this will actually go ahead here yet, but it's recommended by a Commission as per OTL, and this time the Govt has accepted it in principle. It's certainly an interesting principle, but it's down to whether or not the Govt has the guts to push it through.

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Hope your eye is ok Devvy!

From another fellow alternative railway historian, I hope your eye gets better!

Devvy hope your eye is on the mend.

Thanks all for the well wishes; to cut a long story short it was agonisingly painful to start with, but the hospital said it was fine again after 5-6 days, so it's all mended and depth perception back again (5-6 days of no driving was difficult!) :)
 
Cublington?

Not that’s an interesting development. The massive amount of spare land around it will make expansion interesting in later years.

Does this also butterfly the NEC?
 

Devvy

Donor
Cublington airport....mmmhhhh...gonna need a new name

My guesses for the time would be along the lines of:
London Britannia Airport
London Churchill Airport
London Aylesbury Airport

Naming the airport after a person seems rather "un-British", but given that Churchill died only in '65 OTL, and the legacy he left, it's possible.

Cublington?

Not that’s an interesting development. The massive amount of spare land around it will make expansion interesting in later years.

Does this also butterfly the NEC?

Yep, sadly. Although (if built), MK would inherit some of this, as befits it's location next to the huge international airport.

Very sad, because the NEC later spurred the creation of the National Indoor Arena, which was the setting for the greatest TV series of the 1990s....Gladiators ;)

In terms of the spare land, well it's already got 4 runways planned as per the original report. I doubt it would need more, although maybe I could see 1 or 2 at a right angles for emergency use when there is a strong cross-wind. Plenty of space for a large T5 style toast rack terminal(s)!
 
Small world! :D Where about ye from? I'm from the run-down Lang Toun myself. I do wonder ITTL Dysart and Sinclair town still have their stations intact, but it is great to see the Glenfarg line still intact, one of the worse railway closures in Scotland IMO. I could definitely see that being electrified later on ITTL and acting as a more faster route to Aberdeen from Glasgow or Edinburgh.

I'm just up the road from you. I think that Dysart and Sinclairtown would still have closed (btw my Dad lived near the later when he was young). Keeping the Glenfarg line means things like Kelty and Kinross still having a station. However if still built the M90 will need a different route as it uses part of the track bed.

@Devvy whatever you do you can't deny this TL the lovely Jet! :love:
 
Would they keep Heathrow one as a freight or domestic flight airport?

Seems odd to just close it.
Think the report fudged that a bit. Depended on traffic growth and a trade off on jobs vs noise/air pollution around West London.

In practice air traffic grows so fast I think Heathrow ends up still very busy but with tighter runway restrictions. If the Picc line extension gets built is an interesting one though.
 
Actually enough question regarding Scotland. Seeing as steam lasts into the 1970's, wonder if this might be enough to help butterfly away the scrapping of many Scottish built locomotives ITTL as the lack of a Barry Scrapyard place in Scotland saw a lot of Scottish railway heritage go to waste and sadly saw the Scottish railway heritage sector look poor compared to south of the border, many North British and Caley engines surviving would be a wonderful thing to have! :biggrin: Plus it didn't help that the Scottish region in OTL did some pretty choices to persevered some, most notably the tragedy being of Ben Alder not being persevered even though it was earmarked to be saved in the early 50's I believed, but was scrapped later on the decade due to the fact they wanted a fully Scottish locomotive and it had an English built boiler it was carrying during it's last days. This is pretty pathetic reason not to save it and even more hypocritical that Glen Douglas, one that was persevered, had various features added when it was in LNER ownership and lost a lot of it's NB heritage.

Hopefully preservation of Scottish locomotives is handled a lot better ITTL with perhaps even it's heritage railway reputation looking better too. One interesting story, if you want to keep in mind later on, is that the Scottish Railway Preservation Society instead of setting shop up at Bo'ness instead had their first choice being the Devon Valley Railway between Alloa and Dollar, seeing as it has closed as OTL it might be an idea to see that original idea happen with an opening in 1973? Strathspey, Brechin and Dufftown heritage railway likely happen as OTL seeing as those lines still close, though being a member of the Fife Heritage Railway group, wonder where a location for us will be in Fife seeing as most lines are still open, maybe the Leslie branch between there and Markinch or the Dunferlime to Alloa route via Kincardine (reopened in OTL in 2008)? I would've liked to see the Fife Coast Railway personally as a mega heritage railway, but ah well...

An update on the heritage railway circuit round the UK might be worth to show to see what's different from OTL and if it's for the better or worse. Looking forward to seeing how the rail network might improve! :)
 
We'd still have the Lochty Private Railway in Fife at least.

In that case it'll likely close in 1992 as per OTL, would Kirkland sidings in Leven still be the location to go to considering the Fife Coast Railway survives?

Suppose as long as we still have preservation in Fife then all is grand! :coldsweat:
 
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