How bad can the ACW get?
- Thread starter Krasno
- Start date
The Mormons had several years to try a large scale revolt while the US government was occupied with the Confederacy but never did.
One idea for the war to be more drawn out and grueling is for the Rebs to adapt guerilla warfare tactics - imagine if in 1865, Lee didn't surrender but instead told his remaining troops to take for the hills and make life hell for the Union troops as long as they were south of the Mason-Dixie line.
One idea for the war to be more drawn out and grueling is for the Rebs to adapt guerilla warfare tactics - imagine if in 1865, Lee didn't surrender but instead told his remaining troops to take for the hills and make life hell for the Union troops as long as they were south of the Mason-Dixie line.
The Partisan Ranger Act and its consequences seems worth bringing up here.
"Partisan ranger service was meant to appeal to those who would have otherwise taken up arms as guerrillas, not those amenable to conventional service. Colonel John
Imboden’s recruitment advertisement in the Richmond Examiner displays the expectations of partisan rangers:
My purpose is to wage thermoactive warfare against our brutal
invaders and their domestic allies; to hang about their camp and
shoot down every sentinel, picket, courier and wagon-driver we can
find; to watch opportunities for attacking convoys and forage trains,
and thus rendering the country so unsafe that they will not dare to
move except in large bodies. Our own Virginia traitors—men of the
Pierpoint and Carlisle stamp—will receive our special regards. . . .
It is only men I want—men who will pull the trigger on a Yankee
with as much alacrity as they would on a mad dog; men whose
consciences will not be disturbed at the sight of vandal carcase.4"
Source:
I doubt the Army of Northern Virginia in 1865 would have accomplished more than partisan rangers had failed to accomplishment in 1862-1865, as far as unraveling the Union (vs. simply adding to the misery of the South).
You mean there was this conspiracy from a bunch a of Southern sympathizers made plans to secede, taking California and Oregon to form a "Pacific Republic?" That went nowhere as it failed to gain the support of at the time, Colonel Albert Sidney Johnston, who refused. (Ironically, he would later join the CSA.)
There's also the tale of Clement Vallandigham, who also conspired to secede and create a new state called the "Northwest Confederacy" out of the territories of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Kentucky.
Another earlier tale is about Mayor of New York City, Fernando Wood, who wanted New York City to secede and form the "Free City of Tri-Insula" to continue trading cotten with the CSA
Its usually written that the Confederates could not wage a guerilla style campaign, since they were an elite defending slaves, and the slaves actually made up a majority of the population in two southern states. But fanatical minorities have waged long guerilla wars. An example with similarities to the Confederate cause were the Boer wars, especially when you consider that one of the causes of the war was that the Afrikaners had found a way to make themselves minorities among the whites (let alone the entire population) in their own republics.
However, something like this would be easier to do if you increased the craziness of the fire eaters, to the point where none of the establishment politicians want anything to do with them. So they launch a terrorism campaign against the southern state governments as well as the federal government. Thrown in a slave revolt somehow, and you get a workable nightmare scenario.
However, something like this would be easier to do if you increased the craziness of the fire eaters, to the point where none of the establishment politicians want anything to do with them. So they launch a terrorism campaign against the southern state governments as well as the federal government. Thrown in a slave revolt somehow, and you get a workable nightmare scenario.
A second way to do this would be to turn the American Civil War into a world war.
This is hard, but find a way to get Britain and France into the war on the Confederate side, and then Russia and Prussia enter the war on the side of the USA.
This is hard, but find a way to get Britain and France into the war on the Confederate side, and then Russia and Prussia enter the war on the side of the USA.
I was thinking more of governor Weller IIRC he said something about California seceding in the case of a war between states. as for Oregon, I was thinking more about the Organic laws of Oregon being written differently- namely, without the clause about the US in the end. I'm pretty sure the main opposition to the governor at the time also supported independence.
Lincoln decides to not "violate" the Constitution in Maryland joins the CSA.
Lyons is killed in action. Missouri joins the CSA.
CSA doesn't violate Kentucky neutrality the USA does. Kentucky joins the CSA.
Georgia governor goes through with the leave the CSA threat and Alabama and Florida follow them
CSA wins in New Mexico New Mexico goes CSA.
Lyons is killed in action. Missouri joins the CSA.
CSA doesn't violate Kentucky neutrality the USA does. Kentucky joins the CSA.
Georgia governor goes through with the leave the CSA threat and Alabama and Florida follow them
CSA wins in New Mexico New Mexico goes CSA.
The Mormons at that point more or less has semi autonomy due to shear distance and the relative isolation of the salt lake.
Starting a revolt would just jeopardize that position.
Doesn’t that distance and isolation also provide them security against a large response, especially during a civil war?
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The war with the British Empire occurs after the Trent Affair escalates. Peace is eventually made im 1864 or so and Lincoln even narrowly manages to get reelected but all of this drags on the Civil War on for at least 2 years more than OTL.
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Eventually the war would end and once that happened the union would be back in force the people who founded the Mormon religion were a lot smarter then many give them credit
I mean... Surely the KKK and other similar groups during Reconstruction would disprove this?
I have my doubts that the war would last 100 years even with the British entering.
Right. A 100-year long Civil War is something that probably came out of the Warhammer franchise, not something that could conceivably come out of the American Civil War. (Unless you have a Korean War situation of no official peace treaty, but still that probably isn't the same as a 100-year long war).
So im no expert but if I really wanted to screw the place have some European power intervene on the side of the CSA - best would be the british. Have the fighting be as brutal as possible and the CSA be victorious. Add in a large scale slave revolt somewhere before that point massacring a lot of southerners - with a brutal retaliation by the CSA military. Have the CSA forces blame the North for this and decide to take revenge on the North (and the slaves of course). The brits would drop out somewhere around this point I think. I dont think I can come up with anything worse at the moment.
I would also say that a possible coup attempt by McClellan if he does better in some battles could possibly mean a second civil war in the north between McClellan men and Lincoln men, at least it would de stabilise the war effort and probably mean a longer war.