Gabi, I read it. but the initial reaction should have already been the tip. So to be safe, I made a recommendation.
The Iron Eagle II - Days of Strife
- Thread starter Kaiser of Brazil
- Start date
Hey, I'm not sure why I am a fan of that particular Oingo Boingo song but I don't think that it deserves association with Joseph Goebbels
Just wondering, but in this timeline, how is China's nuclear programme going? Well, that is, if they have one going on. Without the Taiwan straits crisis and the typical Communist vs Capitalist cold war of otl, the lack of Soviet support, etc... I imagine their progress might be slower, unless something else happened that propelled their nuclear tech.
And on that note, how have the India-China relations been like since the 50s? Any border conflicts like in the otl Sino-Indian conflict in 1962?
And on that note, how have the India-China relations been like since the 50s? Any border conflicts like in the otl Sino-Indian conflict in 1962?
Chinese nuclear program is indeed probably slowed. Hard to see anyone being willingful to help them. Germans are nto going to help them due many reasons and ideological differences is only one of them. Russians not like China due communism and Americans and Brits hardly trust them. And China is not even useful ally anyway. So hard to see China having nukes before 1980's and probably not even yet on that decade.
They'll probably have to work as long as OTL North Korea did to get one, if the government even lasts that long....
Woah, guess we'll have to see Communist China get their nukes by the 90s. Until then though, we've got some "Great Leap Forwards" and "Cultural Revolutions" to look forward to....
Watch the opening scene of the Three body problem if you want to see the horrors of der angriff and the cultural revolution.
That would be too far, China has many resources which North Korea does not, as well as an "infinite" amount of manpower to spare. There were many Soviet Physicists who fled there through Xinjiang during the downfall of the Stalin government and the capitulation of the Red Army.
So OTL India would be a better equivalent as I mentioned for when China develops nukes (India tested its first nuke in the 1970s)?
I would say it makes sense for Brazil to have nuclear weapons in the 70s (after all, they stole some from the French). And China, which did not have support, achieved this in the 80s, faster than North Korea because it had more resources. But without being super fast. By the way, did India receive support from anyone regarding the production of nuclear weapons?
Speaking of India, it will be interesting to see which movements will emerge, be it Islamic or Hindu supremacy (I would say that these two would be important forces), be it communism or a proto-Indian fascism.
The Soviet Physicists are a factor that's definitely of note, my only worry is that they will take longer in achieving nuclear weapons tech trying to wrangle their way around Maoist bureaucracy moreso than anything else. A bit like the many German scientists who struggled to get past the political dynamics of the Soviet Union during the Space Race which pales when compared to the ease the Saturn team were given to coordinate during the NASA days of the 60s
Yes but you haven't shown that this China has surpassed North Korea OTL in its level of crapsackiness. China didn't do that until OTL 1980 or so ITTL it's even further behind where it was in OTL by reverse leaps and bounds, so, gonna need a dedicated China post to change my mind about its ability to surpass its OTL equivalent.
Considering how much this world emphasizes birth rates, will China have a One-Child policy?
India, free France, Israel and the Russian empire developed the Israeli nuke used in acre.
As in otl, the rss and hindtva movement in india was styled along fascist/authoritarian lines.
As for the one child policy, the Chinese have a nationalist Japan and Russian empire in the neighborhood so I doubt it.
As in otl, the rss and hindtva movement in india was styled along fascist/authoritarian lines.
As for the one child policy, the Chinese have a nationalist Japan and Russian empire in the neighborhood so I doubt it.
If India really wanted, India could have secured a nuke as early as the mid-60s. After the Sino-Indian war, for the first time both the political leadership led by Nehru and the scientific leader at the Atomic Energy Commission Homi Jehangir Bhaba agreed to develop nuclear weapons and it was stated that a weapon could be acquired within eighteen months to five years depending on the effort and resources put into the program. Then Nehru died and the Program lost support although Bhaba again vigorously advocated for nuclear weapons soon he also died and the next chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission Vikram Sarabhai did not want a bomb to be built at all. Then finally to decision to have a bomb was taken as the requirement of nuclear deterrence was realised in the 1971 Indo-Pak war when the US sent a carrier group to intimidate India. So I believe that if India wanted a bomb could have been ready by the mid-1960s.
I do not believe that Maoist Bureaucracy would be a problem when that is such a high-priority project. They would be given literally everything that they need. China has a large number of first-rate Physicists of its own and I believe that now they have been working towards a bomb for 15 years, they would have achieved success.
Why are we counting time in the sense of the date of the first nuclear weapon in 1945? If we look at the time from decision to a working nuclear weapon then the number is 14 years from the withdrawal from the NPT. If we look at the earliest activities suggesting a nuclear program even then the number is 20 years. China is a very different beast with everything needed to build a bomb and if you have the political will and good physicists, it is not too hard to get one. Even if they do not have a nuclear weapon at the moment, I am sure they will have one by the mid-70s. Believing that the Soviets gave away bomb technology to the Chinese is an overstatement. The Chinese were given very vague and general information about the bomb itself but the help was in the sphere of nuclear reactors (minor air), uranium mining (substantial aid) and processing engineering (moderate aid). They figured out most of the stuff themselves along the way but got some nice help on the way in the late 50s but from the Sino-Soviet Split to the first detonation, they figured out the last part on their own.
Soviet Union and to be fair the Americans did not necessarily need them after the mid-50s. Sergei Korolev and his men were doing a stellar job, so there was no need for Germans. They were a nice thing to have but hardly required.
Nuclear reactors? Sure. the two early reactors, APSARA and CIRUS were foreign reactors but after that India kept on building all the necessary infrastructure to have a full-fledged domestic nuclear industry and the Bomb was only a matter of time. Uranium fuel supply from the west was important so that can be considered to be a help. With a four-country effort, frankly, I expected the Bomb to be ready sooner than ITTL.
The Muslim League has been Crushed in this TL and the universal Franchise, devasted them as they were an elitist organisation, same is the case for the Hindu Nationalist organisations that were founded as a response to the Muslim League. These movements really took hold in places where the religion they claimed to represent was in the minority, but the States Reorganisation Act, both ITTL and OTL removed religion from the equation and created a regional identity. So the likely challengers to the Big Tent Congress would be a more potent version of the Swatantrata Party which was ideologically opposed to the Congress and was an inclusive party. and some socialists from the other end of the aisle.
With a one-child policy, Mao's brilliant plan of losing 400 million in a nuclear war and having 400 million left to finish the enemy will fall apart.
Unlikely. Mao might just keep things as is or if he believes conflict with the US, Russia, or the Nazis occurs he might push for pro-Natal policy.
Losing half the population and still having half a billion left? That's just tuesday in China
I'm going to go with no on all three counts (though I hope Kalashnikov didn't die).