Solar Dreams: a history of solar energy (1878 - 2025)

Long days and no time to write. I've just finished writing the background events for the second half of the 1895, which should see a drastic divergence from OTL. No story yet, and I doubt I'll have anything ready before February.

To be honest, considering the rather great advantage Gillette has on other safety razor, I would not be surprised if the price of the other razor on the advert had to be lowered to a dollar by the end of the year


Well,...I personally do not think it would be that much more popular for Americans(and I certainly skeptical of the Southwest having a railway network as dense as the Eastern United States), although perhaps with the help of electrification, there would perhaps be some alignment adjustment to ensure a more speedier and direct connection. Although...

perhaps there would be more rail laying south of the border when compared to the north of the border...

Economic pressures and bearable living conditions should lead to an earlier migration to the drier states. Maybe it wouldn't have the magnitude or the same dynamics as in OTL, but the development of a solar industrial hub around the Rio Grande area would naturally lead to a development of a rail network to distribute the products of such industry, especially bulk products such as distilled atmospheric gasses or cryogenically treated machine parts and tools.

Broadly, metal ores come in two varieties: Native metals, and oxides/sulfides. The former are just the metal sitting in elemental form in the rocks, the latter are chemically bound and need carbon (or hydrogen) to take away the oxygen/sulfur. Copper can come in either form (I'm assuming the Chilean reserves are native copper) but anything else beyond the precious metals usually is in chemically bound form. This imposes a lot of constraints, unlike copper you probably still need to grind them to get good contact area. (Maybe if you melt the oxide to liquid you can bypass that somehow, but then you need to find a crucible that can HOLD a liquid at that temperature...)

Some metal oxides do thermally decompose into oxygen and the metal on their own at very high temperatures (as in, over 1500 degrees celsius, sometimes well past 2500) so that could be a viable carbon-free route, but since that process is not industrially relevant OTL it is hard to find details outside cases where Wikipedia notes it decomposes instead of boiling. You're gonna have to do some chemistry digging.

Also, when discussing the energy density of liquified air: Does that consider the weight of the high-pressuring piping and such you'd need for the engine and tanks? You'd need to allow the boiling off air to rise well past atmospheric pressure to get useful work out of it. Unlike a steam engine you can't draw a vacuum using a condenser. An advantage of an IC engine is the fuel is a liquid at STP and is only converted to a high-pressure gas in the engine itself though chemical reaction, so much less high pressure piping is needed.

The copper in Chile is extracted from chalcopyrite and a compound called Atacamite, a crystalline copper oxide similar to the one that gives statues their green look.

While I am still nowhere near knowledgeable enough to speak with confidence on the subject, it appears that chalcopyrite can be thermally decomposed into copper oxide (CuO), which can then be further refined into metallic copper by using carbon monoxide or molecular hydrogen.

Interestingly, theres one paper that addresses the idea of using solar energy directly ("Thermal Decomposition of Copper Sulfides Under Concentrated Irradiation" by Helena Winkel), which demonstrates that it is viable to directly decompose chalcopyrite into copper in an inert atmosphere, at temperatures above 1914 K. The metallic copper should be further refined using other processes.

As for the liquid air as an energy storage system, the main issue would be insulation and not pressure. The liquid is stored below its' liquefaction point at normal pressure, so it shouldn't need specialized equipment in that regard. Keeping it from boiling before it can transformed into work will be the main problem.

As for the energy density itself, it is nowhere near as compact as fossil fuels, if for no other reason that the temperature differential for the working fluid will never exceed ~200 K, which in turn means more fluid will be needed to perform the same amount of work. It would still be more dense than batteries, but the bulkiness of the system might limit the use as smaller scales.

Las Vegas in particular is going to be on the map partially because of the San Pedro, Salt Lake Route that is likely to get set up by a certain William A Clark. One of its main industries actually was its ice making machines alongside the totally legal and not yet banned red light district. Given his interest in copper, electric power industries and small smelters, you have someone keenly interested in the potential of this technology.

Entrepreneurs like these will probably shape the Solar Industry once it arrives to the United States. And given that Thomas Edison* is in contact with Isidora Goyenechea (as in OTL), him and his team adapting it to the necessities of the United States seems the most natural path in this timeline.

I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but since that seen where Otto freezes the Sicilian mafia, I've been wondering... is there any potential in the idea of liquid air bombs?

Whether artillery shells or bombing runs, I imagine their ability to flash-freeze stuff could prove pretty useful.

I can also think of about 5 different reasons why this might not work, but still, is this a thing that could theoretically be engineered?

It wouldn't be very effective, both because the amount of liquid air needed to cause damage is rather large (the Leidenfrost effect keeps the skin out of contact with the liquid, acting as insulation), and because it doesn't compete in terms of damage to what an incendiary or explosive charge could do.

Although, it might be useful as a firefighting method: a concentrated barrage of liquid nitrogen could serve to cool off an area. It's probably very expensive and impractical, but I do like the idea of bombarding a forest fire into submission.
 
Long days and no time to write. I've just finished writing the background events for the second half of the 1895, which should see a drastic divergence from OTL. No story yet, and I doubt I'll have anything ready before February.
No stress, it’s ready when it’s ready and I for one will be here to read it.
 
Ugh yeah I know that feeling about being too tired to write. Been there myself.
The copper in Chile is extracted from chalcopyrite and a compound called Atacamite, a crystalline copper oxide similar to the one that gives statues their green look.

While I am still nowhere near knowledgeable enough to speak with confidence on the subject, it appears that chalcopyrite can be thermally decomposed into copper oxide (CuO), which can then be further refined into metallic copper by using carbon monoxide or molecular hydrogen.

Interestingly, theres one paper that addresses the idea of using solar energy directly ("Thermal Decomposition of Copper Sulfides Under Concentrated Irradiation" by Helena Winkel), which demonstrates that it is viable to directly decompose chalcopyrite into copper in an inert atmosphere, at temperatures above 1914 K. The metallic copper should be further refined using other processes.

As for the liquid air as an energy storage system, the main issue would be insulation and not pressure. The liquid is stored below its' liquefaction point at normal pressure, so it shouldn't need specialized equipment in that regard. Keeping it from boiling before it can transformed into work will be the main problem.

As for the energy density itself, it is nowhere near as compact as fossil fuels, if for no other reason that the temperature differential for the working fluid will never exceed ~200 K, which in turn means more fluid will be needed to perform the same amount of work. It would still be more dense than batteries, but the bulkiness of the system might limit the use as smaller scales.
Interesting about the copper. I gotta check the paper out, but it's cool to know there is some literature on the topic already. 1914 K is definitely achievable with solar.

My understanding of things is, to generate useful work from an expanding gas using anything like a conventional piston engine you need a pressure differential against atmosphere- and without means to draw a vacuum, that means you need to raise the pressure of the working air. Is there a way to do that while still having the main storage be at atmospheric? Dang, I really need to review my thermodynamics of gas storage...

Yeah there'd definitely be some bulk, big question if it can be scaled down to automobile sizes...
 
Long days and no time to write. I've just finished writing the background events for the second half of the 1895, which should see a drastic divergence from OTL. No story yet, and I doubt I'll have anything ready before February.
No pressure, we'll still be here when it's done ;)
 
Ugh yeah I know that feeling about being too tired to write. Been there myself.

Interesting about the copper. I gotta check the paper out, but it's cool to know there is some literature on the topic already. 1914 K is definitely achievable with solar.

My understanding of things is, to generate useful work from an expanding gas using anything like a conventional piston engine you need a pressure differential against atmosphere- and without means to draw a vacuum, that means you need to raise the pressure of the working air. Is there a way to do that while still having the main storage be at atmospheric? Dang, I really need to review my thermodynamics of gas storage...

Yeah there'd definitely be some bulk, big question if it can be scaled down to automobile sizes...

The liquid air engine acts like any other Carnot-cycle engine, where the fluid heats up rapidly and expands to create work.

Liquid air can exist at standard conditions, forming puddles and acting like any other liquid. It's just that it is continuously boiling.

The obvious problem is that you'd need a source of heat to boil the air. It doesn't need to be a high temperature, but that heat has to come from somewhere.

Maybe pressurized air at ambient temperature? Or an electric resistance in the engine block? Enough air mass or electric power to provide the heat to boil the liquid at the top of the stroke.

This technology was toyed with during the turn of the century, but it was notoriously sketchy.

A history of the liquid air engine.

On larger scales, such as in power generation, this shouldn't be an issue.
 
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The liquid air engine acts like any other Carnot-cycle engine, where the fluid heats up rapidly and expands to create work.

Liquid air can exist at standard conditions, forming puddles and acting like any other liquid. It's just that it is continuously boiling.

The obvious problem is that you'd need a source of heat to boil the air. It doesn't need to be a high temperature, but that heat has to come from somewhere.

Maybe pressurized air at ambient temperature? Or an electric resistance in the engine block? Enough air mass or electric power to provide the heat to boil the liquid at the top of the stroke.

This technology was toyed with during the turn of the century, but it was notoriously sketchy.

A history of the liquid air engine.

On larger scales, such as in power generation, this shouldn't be an issue.
Oh, so a 'liquid air engine' is a conventional heat engine, one that uses the liquid air as cold reservoir and ideally ambient air as hot- I realize I'd been thinking of it totally the wrong way. Thanks for the link, I have a better idea how it's supposed to work now. It seems dealing with ice on the heat exchangers will be a major issue in all but the driest regions of the world. (Atacama wins again, hah!) You probably would need a dedicated 'boiler' of some sort though, so not good for weight. (nitpick: No real-world engine uses the carnot cycle, it's impractical at the macroscopic scale. Real engines use various other thermodynamic cycles. Not sure which the liquid air engine counts as I admit)

And I figure it needs to be ambient air as the heat source, since with an electric heater or such you need to get that energy from somewhere in the first place- how I wish I had time to crunch some hard thermodynamics numbers ...
 
Oh, so a 'liquid air engine' is a conventional heat engine, one that uses the liquid air as cold reservoir and ideally ambient air as hot- I realize I'd been thinking of it totally the wrong way. Thanks for the link, I have a better idea how it's supposed to work now. It seems dealing with ice on the heat exchangers will be a major issue in all but the driest regions of the world. (Atacama wins again, hah!) You probably would need a dedicated 'boiler' of some sort though, so not good for weight. (nitpick: No real-world engine uses the carnot cycle, it's impractical at the macroscopic scale. Real engines use various other thermodynamic cycles. Not sure which the liquid air engine counts as I admit)

And I figure it needs to be ambient air as the heat source, since with an electric heater or such you need to get that energy from somewhere in the first place- how I wish I had time to crunch some hard thermodynamics numbers ...

Yeah, it's very similar to a typical Otto engine: put fluid on piston, let fluid expand, remove exhaust from piston, repeat (I usually refer to the generic case as the "Carnot Cycle", even Carnot, Otto and Diesel ar very different)

The idea of the electric heater on the engine block sounds good on paper... until you realize that the heater will be the one providing the energy to boil of the liquid air and push the pistons. It's not like a sparkplug that only ignites fuel. It's a no go.

And the icing on the mechanism is also a problem due to humidity is a problem, at least on the automotive scale. On industrial applications the air can be dried with dehumidifiers, and the dry ice scrubbed with Stirling cooling, but on smaller engines those aren't feasible options.

It's weird. There are lots of hurdles to make these type of car engines, but every few decades the idea resurfaces with the inventor making a practical engine. The latest person who supposedly made one is a Peter Dearman from the UK.
 
I mean, one option for reducing ice build up could just be deliberately making the engine shake/rattle while in operation - ie., shake the ice off as soon as it starts forming on the exterior.
 
What about Rubber? Or some other insulating material layered over the areas with Ice buildup? Hmm... on second thought that wouldn't work, there would be no way for the cold to escape or warm up and it would just build up until it burst whether from the buildup itself or from the Ice and super hot spot constantly colliding and deteriorating the engine if I am correct. How about covering it with wires and diverting some of the heat to melt the ice as it forms? It would be less powerful because the Engine would produce less useable energy per minute but it should (hopefully) be counteracted by the fact that the Engine will last long enough to make it's lifespan production total higher.

Of course I know nothing about Engines so how that would be done and implemented I am not sure, but if it can that should work.
 
Another option might just be to have two engines, and cycle between them - when one is too covered by ice to run efficiently, you switch over to the other and use a portion of the energy from the second engine to run a defrost cycle on the first engine (or the heat exchanger used to boil the liquid air).
 
Sorry to interrupt (especially to @ScorchedLight), but I would like to remind that this TL has once again(for the third year in a row, being nominated for the Best Spaceflight and Technology TL for 2024...and as its stands, had already surpassed the previous year in terms of actual number of votes....

I feel the need to remind this since the poll is located at the After-1900 TLs subforum (and this is the last day to vote)..and this timeline is the only one to have been made with a pre-1900 POD (and a one centred in Chile rather than the usual USA/USSR at that)...
 
Ooof, thought he had it! Am kinda surprised.

Still congrats on coming so close!

Thanks! Maybe next year I'll get it, as we get into the 20th Century and the ramifications get more and more unrecognisable.

Sorry to interrupt (especially to @ScorchedLight), but I would like to remind that this TL has once again(for the third year in a row, being nominated for the Best Spaceflight and Technology TL for 2024...and as its stands, had already surpassed the previous year in terms of actual number of votes....

I feel the need to remind this since the poll is located at the TLs subforum (and this is the last day to vote)..and this timeline is the only one to have been made with a pre-1900 POD (and a one centred in Chile rather than the usual USA/USSR at that)...

While I mostly write about what I know*, I'll try to make the story as global as it can be without letting the story crawl. Chile harnessing the immense power of the Atacama Desert will only be one of the focuses, but the technological development in Europe and the US - along with their repercussions in civilization - will also be explored. Eventually, other countries will also be touched, as the technologies are adapted and the impacts are felt across the world.

I have the events up to 1900 mostly set up. Between that an 1920, I have a rough timeline. Between 1920 and 1940, a few ideas (WWII as we know it has been butterflied away, that's the main one for this period). Beyond that, only milestones and embryonic ideas.

*: Speaking of that, I'm currently in Osorno. A bit north of Chiloe, the place that represents the maximum extent on which the Solar devices have reached ITTL.

... the place is infested with solar water heaters and solar panels. It appears that even this far south solar is both viable and economical. For what I've heard from people, the solar heaters work even on rainy days.

That's how I got here. This is a great timeline. I love the Turtledoves. So many great fics I missed all lined up in a row for me.

Speaking of the TL, next update will be a bit different and not focus on a single character and event, as before. It won't have a traditional story, either.

Instead, it will feature snippets of what the four developments we're following are doing, settting the pieces for the second part of the 1890s.
 
Hoping to see more of this soon! Maybe a map of the world, if borders/politics have changed that much yet ITTL? Or, maybe a map of where people are doing solar boilers at this time, like dots strewn throughout the Atacama, the Nile Delta, et cetera.
 
Has there been any major territorial changes when compared to OTL?
Not YET.

Things, however are going to possibly start to get spiky as the years approach to the deadline for the Treaty of Ancón for the Voting for the choice of the regions of Tacna and Arica, as with the highly increasing value of the Tacna and Arica regions for its Solar potential for low cost Solar based Smelting, it's highly probable that there will be an earlier push for the colonising with Chilean colonists, probably through land grants for the Miners, both regions in order to annex the Regions to Chile.

Even weaker military than Chile, the Public pressure on Peru would be such that whoever it's on the Government would have to declare War, lest they are deposed by a populist coup......
 
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