Sarawak PoD 1949 - A TL

[NickBana]

Obviously, the titile goes to...

Actually I have been considering restarting this TL somewhen at least as a more condensed from briefly establishing the situation as a redux and then perhaps expanding from there - thinking of moving the PoD further back into the Second World War though - if I could perhaps have help or a co-author with expertise then it might all be possible - equally if anyone wishes to take this over and do their own TL I'm fine with that

Look at me!!! I am HERE!!! Seriously, had you forgotten a resident Sarawakian here?

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

Look at me!!! I am HERE!!! Seriously, had you forgotten a resident Sarawakian here?

I did indeed have someone rather in mind when I was writing that post - would be a pleasure and relief to have you help - hopefully going to produce a longer, more detailed and better timeline this attempt. Perhaps at the very least co-operating via PM to polish off the posts of the Timeline yeah ?

What did you think of my new proposed PoD ?

 

[NickBana]

I did indeed have someone rather in mind when I was writing that post - would be a pleasure and relief to have you help - hopefully going to produce a longer, more detailed and better timeline this attempt. Perhaps at the very least co-operating via PM to polish off the posts of the Timeline yeah ?

What did you think of my new proposed PoD ?

PM me your idea.

 

[NickBana]

Wasn't my work but rather someone's idea as to how it might look - quite like it myself but didn't ever think it would be plausible

So would a Redux of this be a popular suggestion ? The initial thoughts I am working off is to somehow kill off Charles Brooke in around 1930 [suggestions welcome ] making Anthony Brooke into the Fourth Rajah thus hopefully giving me an excuse to develop Sarawak prior to the war and improve both the infrastructure and possibilities available when it comes to the Second World War - also nicely prevents any hint of the Colonial period without causing the trouble I went through at the start of this TL. Might be able to play with an early Sarawak Air Force with some Gloster Gladiators ...

Also given that IOTL the Japanese invasion of Borneo took place with only around 5,000 troops and was mostly reliant on mopping up the under armed and equipped forces of the British, Sarawakians and Dutch a small change could make quite a difference. For instance increasing the Sarawak Armed Forces from the OTL 1,515 to say around 2,500 or even 4,000 [Not all that implausible expansion with a population of 500,000] and purchasing some modern equipment might either disrupt the Japanese timetabling significantly or even lead to an interesting Borneo Campaign.

On that, I agree...

 

[Petike]

You'll have that roundel this weekend, I promise.

 

[Simon]

Also given that IOTL the Japanese invasion of Borneo took place with only around 5,000 troops and was mostly reliant on mopping up the under armed and equipped forces of the British, Sarawakians and Dutch a small change could make quite a difference. For instance increasing the Sarawak Armed Forces from the OTL 1,515 to say around 2,500 or even 4,000 [Not all that implausible expansion with a population of 500,000] and purchasing some modern equipment might either disrupt the Japanese timetabling significantly or even lead to an interesting Borneo Campaign.

One idea I had for another thread where we were trying to make things more difficult for the Japanese was to increase the size of Sarawak's armed forces through a mix of regulars and territorials. Regular British battalion at the start of the war was roughly 650 men and four battalions to a brigade. The Kingdom could raise a brigade of regular troops as a solid core, possibly give them some lorries as well to help with their mobility, and then another brigade or two depending on how generous you feel of part-time territorial troops that get called up when the war starts. They're used to garrison fixed positions with a leavening of regulars for support with the regulars taking care of guarding the high value targets and acting as a roving reserve by lorry to reinforce anywhere needed. Since Britain was also meant to be at least partly responsible for defence matters you could possibly look at bullying them into attaching a small artillery unit, even second line equipment they're likely to send would still be a large bonus over our timeline.

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

I'm pleasantly surprised at the level of interest this has kept - hopefully get to work on it reasonably quickly although planning on using this thread to figure everything out before hand - a test thread almost.

PM me your idea.

I shall indeed do that - be a little rough Im afraid.

You'll have that roundel this weekend, I promise.

Thank you it is very generous of you - Im hopeless with that sort of thing

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

One idea I had for another thread where we were trying to make things more difficult for the Japanese was to increase the size of Sarawak's armed forces through a mix of regulars and territorials. Regular British battalion at the start of the war was roughly 650 men and four battalions to a brigade. The Kingdom could raise a brigade of regular troops as a solid core, possibly give them some lorries as well to help with their mobility, and then another brigade or two depending on how generous you feel of part-time territorial troops that get called up when the war starts. They're used to garrison fixed positions with a leavening of regulars for support with the regulars taking care of guarding the high value targets and acting as a roving reserve by lorry to reinforce anywhere needed. Since Britain was also meant to be at least partly responsible for defence matters you could possibly look at bullying them into attaching a small artillery unit, even second line equipment they're likely to send would still be a large bonus over our timeline.

Thank you that is an interesting proposal - perhaps what could be done is to raise the Sarawak Rangers from a more informal group to a full British style brigade through recruitment prior to the war. That would certainly hold the Japanese for slightly longer. Although I do quite like the idea of a distinction between the elite Rangers and a regular army. Raising territorials might be interesting because local support traditionally and in OTL was raised by sending the red feather upstream to the loyalists - might have to create a more formal system. Purchase of some lorries or Land Rover style vehicles to give them more mobility is an excellent idea but may require a large scale road construction program.

Does anyone happen to know how seriously the Japanese threat was seen by Sarawak in the Interwar period ? Obviously the United Kingdom was somewhat dismissive of it apart from reinforcing Singapore but perhaps Sarawak could adopt the paranoid Australian viewpoint - that would make the construction of fortifications at least in Kuching and around the Northern oil facilities a little more plausible.

Would Britain be generous enough to provide artillery for a newly formed Sarawak Army or would the Sarawakian funds have to purchase it themselves ? Also is it completely implausible that after several years of modernisation and development Sarawak decides to invest in a very small navy and purchases one or maybe two small submarines ? Thinking similar to Estonia's pre war submarines.

 

[NickBana]

Thank you that is an interesting proposal - perhaps what could be done is to raise the Sarawak Rangers from a more informal group to a full British style brigade through recruitment prior to the war. That would certainly hold the Japanese for slightly longer. Although I do quite like the idea of a distinction between the elite Rangers and a regular army. Raising territorials might be interesting because local support traditionally and in OTL was raised by sending the red feather upstream to the loyalists - might have to create a more formal system. Purchase of some lorries or Land Rover style vehicles to give them more mobility is an excellent idea but may require a large scale road construction program.

Does anyone happen to know how seriously the Japanese threat was seen by Sarawak in the Interwar period ? Obviously the United Kingdom was somewhat dismissive of it apart from reinforcing Singapore but perhaps Sarawak could adopt the paranoid Australian viewpoint - that would make the construction of fortifications at least in Kuching and around the Northern oil facilities a little more plausible.

Would Britain be generous enough to provide artillery for a newly formed Sarawak Army or would the Sarawakian funds have to purchase it themselves ? Also is it completely implausible that after several years of modernisation and development Sarawak decides to invest in a very small navy and purchases one or maybe two small submarines ? Thinking similar to Estonia's pre war submarines.

The problem was how fast the subs could be finished.
Don't worry about the roads(although it was preferable), you could just take any Dayak man of suitable age, ask them if they want to volunteer, teach them to march, shoot and some English, and let them do the rest... That was what the British did during the Emergency anyway...

Oh, and I had the rest PM'ed to you...

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

The problem was how fast the subs could be finished.

Probably would be the problem - if they were ordered early enough they might be prepared in time to flee the Japanese invasion though or perhaps even put a few transport ships to the bottom. Would certainly disrupt the narrow margins in manpower the Japanese exploited regularly IOTL.

Also it would be interesting to know the sort of economic status that Sarawak had in the inter-war period, I realise now when attempting this re-write that there are significant factors I completely overlooked such as the Northern oil industry and perhaps industrial production, basically I need to know what Sarawak would be able to afford to construct - hopefully a fair bit.

 

[Jonathan Edelstein]

I'd also like to see this timeline back.

With respect to your POD, Anthony Brooke would be 18 years old in 1930 so there would probably be a short-term regency - who would be involved in that, and would it be an opportunity to create a more broad-based government? What is known about Anthony's political views at the time - did he favor democratization?

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

I'd also like to see this timeline back.

With respect to your POD, Anthony Brooke would be 18 years old in 1930 so there would probably be a short-term regency - who would be involved in that, and would it be an opportunity to create a more broad-based government? What is known about Anthony's political views at the time - did he favor democratization?

Excellent point regarding the PoD - might have to shift it on a few years because for simplicity sake I would quite like to start with Anthony as an adult to avoid having to sort a regency out. I am not sure whether he favoured democratization but he certainly never seemed opposed to the Council Negri and unlike Vyner did IOTL wont be raiding the Sarawak treasury in exchange for any loosening of privilege ...

Also found an interesting link discussing several small railways in Sarawak that I was not aware of - namely small lines in Jesselton and Kuching, admittedly the former did close before even the PoD however it does raise the question fo whether a larger, more integrated railway network could be constructed. The lines mentioned used a as far as I can tell unique narrow gauge of 2ft 9in which would I suppose be called Sarawak Gauge. Perhaps a Sarawak Gauge railway using racked locomotives to cope with rugged terrain crossing the country ?

 

[NickBana]

Probably would be the problem - if they were ordered early enough they might be prepared in time to flee the Japanese invasion though or perhaps even put a few transport ships to the bottom. Would certainly disrupt the narrow margins in manpower the Japanese exploited regularly IOTL.

Also it would be interesting to know the sort of economic status that Sarawak had in the inter-war period, I realise now when attempting this re-write that there are significant factors I completely overlooked such as the Northern oil industry and perhaps industrial production, basically I need to know what Sarawak would be able to afford to construct - hopefully a fair bit.

Those two(Buy it from US? or UK?) would be useful for raiding shipment and disrupt Japanese war plan.

Which gave me some idea.

How about this scenario: Royal Sarawak Navy rearguard action to transport Douglas MacArthur out of the Philippines, and then RSN was transferred to the Nimitz's Pacific Fleet and responsible for raiding Japanese shipment up until the US rearm themselves completely... One submarine was sunk at the opening of Midway, another at Leyte and US compensate RSN by rearm them after war?

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

Those two(Buy it from US? or UK?) would be useful for raiding shipment and disrupt Japanese war plan.

Which gave me some idea.

How about this scenario: Royal Sarawak Navy rearguard action to transport Douglas MacArthur out of the Philippines, and then RSN was transferred to the Nimitz's Pacific Fleet and responsible for raiding Japanese shipment up until the US rearm themselves completely... One submarine was sunk at the opening of Midway, another at Leyte and US compensate RSN by rearm them after war?

Quite like the idea of the two escaping to join remaining allied forces however even if just for my dislike to the guy Im reluctant to allow MacArthur anything to do with them Chances are the RSN if it escaped would be given to someone elses overall command and be damaged - would be nice if one at least survived to be the main exhibit in the Royal Sarawak Naval Museum

Going to have to expand the Brooke Dockyard as well in order to have the capacity to at least handle these submarines - would quite like to establish a Sarawakian shipbuilding industry eventually.

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

Link to the page discussing the previously mentioned railways for those interested - http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/14/Borneo.htm

 

[NickBana]

Quite like the idea of the two escaping to join remaining allied forces however even if just for my dislike to the guy Im reluctant to allow MacArthur anything to do with them Chances are the RSN if it escaped would be given to someone elses overall command and be damaged - would be nice if one at least survived to be the main exhibit in the Royal Sarawak Naval Museum

Going to have to expand the Brooke Dockyard as well in order to have the capacity to at least handle these submarines - would quite like to establish a Sarawakian shipbuilding industry eventually.

Which place were shallower? Midway or Leyte?

Nimitz will command those ship, so don't worry... Be glad that MacArthur was an Army General...

About Brooke Dockyard... I'll let you to decide...

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

Which place were shallower? Midway or Leyte?

Nimitz will command those ship, so don't worry... Be glad that MacArthur was an Army General...

About Brooke Dockyard... I'll let you to decide...

I suppose salvage is a possibility afterwards - be nice to have a decent war record for Sarawak's navy.

Anyone serving on a Pacific warship should be grateful MacArthur wasn't a Naval man.

If the Brooke Dockyard is unsuitable then could you suggest somewhere that is a better choice for modern/interwar ship repair and construction ? I want this TL to be as plausible as possible and no doubt the Sarawak government at the time wouldn't select it to develop if its a nightmare

Additionally Im thinking of trying to build up a butterfly chain that would allow an earlier British election - say around 1934 that would be won by a coalition government of Liberals and Labour as a method of encouraging rearmament and improving matters - does this sound plausible and does anyone have suggestions as to how to bring it about ?

 

[Jonathan Edelstein]

Excellent point regarding the PoD - might have to shift it on a few years because for simplicity sake I would quite like to start with Anthony as an adult to avoid having to sort a regency out.

A regency would be complicated but it might also jump-start the POD - for instance, the regency council could include reformers from the Malay, Dayak and Chinese elites, and they could educate Anthony and advise him on political reforms. If you want rapid change in Sarawak then a period of transition like a regency may be the way to do it.

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

A regency would be complicated but it might also jump-start the POD - for instance, the regency council could include reformers from the Malay, Dayak and Chinese elites, and they could educate Anthony and advise him on political reforms. If you want rapid change in Sarawak then a period of transition like a regency may be the way to do it.

I suppose that is true actually - a major reforming push by an educated Anthony working to improve the nation and a stronger parliamentary system, its certainly an idea. Would have to find suitable reformers who want to strengthen the country and democracy.

Potential major changes Im considering for this Timeline are an Operation Downfall parallel going ahead instead or perhaps alongside nuclear bombing with obvious disastrous results, Indonesia either balkanising into a variety of competing nations or forming a very loose confederation, United Kingdom remaining much more powerful and incorporating several colonies directly into the Westminster system - maybe the Caribbean islands, Falklands and perhaps Labuan ...

What do people think ?

 

[Some Bloke]

Not bad ideas I reckon although for forms sake wouldn't it be best to start from new thread?